small powerhouse schools

[Abe Froman]

A combination of ^^^^ about what everyone has said above.

[mikepike]

It starts at home.

When kids start playing sports in youth leagues, winning the 7-year old championship doesn't mean anything more than you had a good year.

Coaching. Developing the team concept. Fundamentals are taught from the very beginning. These are more important than winning 'championship's at younger levels.

Kids don't move around because they aren't the star. If you aren't good enough to be a starter, work harder until you are. Kids are discouraged from moving schools simply for sports. If a kid and coach don't get along, they learn to. When many kids and the coach don't get along, then it's looked at differently. Doesn't seem to be the local politics involved as much as around here. Like was said in a previous post, the team winning is more important than individual stardom. 100+ state championships in around 40 years of the leagues existence attests to that.

[formerfcfan]

Let's take a step back and recognize small (public) school success athletically is not only found in the MAC. Western and Northwest Ohio are home to some very successful, tradition rich, and proud conferences that befit "conservative(,) work ethic, and location"; examples of these "MAC-like" conferences would be the Shelby County League, Northwest Ohio Athletic League, the Northwest Conference, the Putnam County League, and the Green Meadows Conference. Throw in a couple other "do it right communities" such as Ft. Loramie, McComb, and Arlington and you have the groundwork to be at least decent... and any tinge of good coaching can take the programs a long way!

There are multiple, often intertwined factors that don't make the powerhouse schools (and their communities) superior to other communities but do in fact give them a leg up on their public (school) peers that are beleaguered by various social issues.

The truth is that those aforementioned public school communities are not the beacon of "small town U.S.A." Instead, they embody value systems deemed pertinent to a prosperous life for you and those that come after you... a construct that was prominent in every hamlet and blip on the map across Ohio, but has since faded away generation by generation. I would strongly speculate that in MAC communities such as Coldwater, Maria Stein, Versailles et al that very few kids grow up with guardians that are not their biological parents. I'd opine 95% of kids out that way grow up in a household with a set of married parents or with a stepparent and a biological parent. I would also bet the house that 99% of kids that grow up in the MAC have never grown up in foster care, nor would any of them have parents who have been incarcerated for drug related offenses or any serious crimes. The societal implications behind that are obvious. MAC-Land and a lot of those places I mention also have either good economies or have money flow patterns that coincide with living on a farm ("we aren't necessarily rich, but we're able to provide").

There also isn't much need, really, for private schooling out in that part of the state. Sidney Lehman Catholic, one of the few out there, is basically comprised of devout Catholics and economically mobile families that seek an alternative to the large schooling systems of Troy, Piqua, and Sidney. Delphos St. John's is basically a "Catholic families send their kids to get catechized" deal. Don't know enough about Troy Christian.

I'll catch heat for it, but its true: at a MAC school such as Coldwater, if you have 180 boys 9-12 then you basically have 180 boys in those grades to pool from to form deep rosters and good competition within practice. Cream of the crop will rise to the top. At a Catholic school, if you have 180 boys 9-12 then you too basically have 180 boys in those grades to pool from to form deep rosters and good competition within practice. In both examples, you'll find 99% of the kids are afforded opportunities by their parents to do what they want to do and there is generally more flexibility within the family to allow for weekday practices after school (a ride home, both parents can take care of themselves et al). Now... at too many public schools that face economic challenges and various social problems (which unfortunately is the bill that fits too many SE Ohio and Appalachian public school communities), you may have 180 boys 9-12, say 35 of those 180 have to rely on the bus to take them home from school / would not have a ride back home after practice... that number is cut down to 145, say 65 of those remaining boys either a) have to take on a job during the school week (or weekends) to support not just themselves but also their family, b) don't have the parental/guardian support to do sports, or c) find video games, outdoor activities, or much worse smoking and drinking to be easier, more convenient, and more enjoyable releases from the school day. Down to 80 boys 9-12 quickly, and not every kid might like sports such as football either. Some boys may be exclusive to band, academic extracurricular activities, or other things. At the end of the day, you'd probably be lucky to have a football program that has 55-65 boys. There are obviously exceptions, but there may be a wide host of other factors and things "done right" that work for those (exception) communities.





TL;DR - MAC schools and similarly modest yet hardworking farm communities are able to get the maximum out of their student bodies when it comes to participation and competition (much like private schools... *gasp*) which is such a devoid concept now throughout the the Buckeye State (largely because of an absence of community value systems but more pertinent to socioeconomics and the [ever-changing] family structure) that those schools are seen as exceptions and not the norm of public school athletics in Ohio. By contrast, many SE Ohio public schools are not able to get the maximum out of their student bodies when it comes to participation and competition (for many of the reasons listed above... and no, its not an intrinsic laziness within communities or many of their kids so much as it is an absence of economic mobility, two-parent households, parental involvement, and in many cases an inability to balance sports with school, family, and work.)

[Orange and Brown]

Let's take a step back and recognize small (public) school success athletically is not only found in the MAC. Western and Northwest Ohio are home to some very successful, tradition rich, and proud conferences that befit "conservative(,) work ethic, and location"; examples of these "MAC-like" conferences would be the Shelby County League, Northwest Ohio Athletic League, the Northwest Conference, the Putnam County League, and the Green Meadows Conference. Throw in a couple other "do it right communities" such as Ft. Loramie, McComb, and Arlington and you have the groundwork to be at least decent... and any tinge of good coaching can take the programs a long way!

There are multiple, often intertwined factors that don't make the powerhouse schools (and their communities) superior to other communities but do in fact give them a leg up on their public (school) peers that are beleaguered by various social issues.

The truth is that those aforementioned public school communities are not the beacon of "small town U.S.A." Instead, they embody value systems deemed pertinent to a prosperous life for you and those that come after you... a construct that was prominent in every hamlet and blip on the map across Ohio, but has since faded away generation by generation. I would strongly speculate that in MAC communities such as Coldwater, Maria Stein, Versailles et al that very few kids grow up with guardians that are not their biological parents. I'd opine 95% of kids out that way grow up in a household with a set of married parents or with a stepparent and a biological parent. I would also bet the house that 99% of kids that grow up in the MAC have never grown up in foster care, nor would any of them have parents who have been incarcerated for drug related offenses or any serious crimes. The societal implications behind that are obvious. MAC-Land and a lot of those places I mention also have either good economies or have money flow patterns that coincide with living on a farm ("we aren't necessarily rich, but we're able to provide").

There also isn't much need, really, for private schooling out in that part of the state. Sidney Lehman Catholic, one of the few out there, is basically comprised of devout Catholics and economically mobile families that seek an alternative to the large schooling systems of Troy, Piqua, and Sidney. Delphos St. John's is basically a "Catholic families send their kids to get catechized" deal. Don't know enough about Troy Christian.

I'll catch heat for it, but its true: at a MAC school such as Coldwater, if you have 180 boys 9-12 then you basically have 180 boys in those grades to pool from to form deep rosters and good competition within practice. Cream of the crop will rise to the top. At a Catholic school, if you have 180 boys 9-12 then you too basically have 180 boys in those grades to pool from to form deep rosters and good competition within practice. In both examples, you'll find 99% of the kids are afforded opportunities by their parents to do what they want to do and there is generally more flexibility within the family to allow for weekday practices after school (a ride home, both parents can take care of themselves et al). Now... at too many public schools that face economic challenges and various social problems (which unfortunately is the bill that fits too many SE Ohio and Appalachian public school communities), you may have 180 boys 9-12, say 35 of those 180 have to rely on the bus to take them home from school / would not have a ride back home after practice... that number is cut down to 145, say 65 of those remaining boys either a) have to take on a job during the school week (or weekends) to support not just themselves but also their family, b) don't have the parental/guardian support to do sports, or c) find video games, outdoor activities, or much worse smoking and drinking to be easier, more convenient, and more enjoyable releases from the school day. Down to 80 boys 9-12 quickly, and not every kid might like sports such as football either. Some boys may be exclusive to band, academic extracurricular activities, or other things. At the end of the day, you'd probably be lucky to have a football program that has 55-65 boys. There are obviously exceptions, but there may be a wide host of other factors and things "done right" that work for those (exception) communities.





TL;DR - MAC schools and similarly modest yet hardworking farm communities are able to get the maximum out of their student bodies when it comes to participation and competition (much like private schools... *gasp*) which is such a devoid concept now throughout the the Buckeye State (largely because of an absence of community value systems but more pertinent to socioeconomics and the [ever-changing] family structure) that those schools are seen as exceptions and not the norm of public school athletics in Ohio. By contrast, many SE Ohio public schools are not able to get the maximum out of their student bodies when it comes to participation and competition (for many of the reasons listed above... and no, its not an intrinsic laziness within communities or many of their kids so much as it is an absence of economic mobility, two-parent households, parental involvement, and in many cases an inability to balance sports with school, family, and work.)

This is a very well thought out and we'll written post.
I agree with this post.

[Westfan]

Excellent posts.
Demographics and location mean everything. I like how formerfcfan broke down the numbers and the way local teams are fortunate to get 60 or more players.

Urban areas definitely have an advantage that kids are close to the schools. Many kids in large rural school districts really can't play ball as they are a 20 mile ride from the school.

Kids from successful home environments where the parents don't make excuses for their kids and push them a little more are more apt to work and play.

Families that are more financially stable are able to give their children opportunities that poorer families cannot such as AAU Basketball.

[yabbadabbadoo]

Looking at Coldwater on the map, it looks like they would also have the luxury of drawing from some of the little towns around them that don't offer football. 80-85 kids on a team seems awfully high for a DIV 5 school.

Before someone says it, I'm not implying that they recruit but that they have more kids to pool from. Most of your SEO teams basically have to pool from what kids are in there town. Sure, you will get a player every now and then that goes to another school, but that usually amounts to one kid and he usually is not going to be that big of a difference maker.

Formerfcfan made some great remarks and probably hit the nail on the head but still think that is a lot of kids playing from just one town.

[Ksaboljr]

The common denominator is a strong youth program.

[Orange and Brown]

The common denominator is a strong youth program.

That's not necessarily the case.
Their are some powerhouse schools who don't have youth football, and their are schools that have wonderful youth programs but can't win a playoff game if they were spotted points.

A strong youth program is great but at the end of the day, it only means you have a strong youth program.

[obschwie]

The common denominator is a strong youth program.

Coldwater and Marion Local don't have youth football programs. This may be to their benefit because they are not tired of the game and look forward to playing football when they get into the 7th grade.

[kuruguru]

Exactly LHS 72, exactly.

Wheelersburg is on the right track and the closest thing to what the MAC has consistently in SEO today. Jackson and Logan have traditionally turned out solid programs too on a consistent basis, and it appears the Ironmen are gonna roll for some time (as much as I hate to admit this lol). Ironton was the 70's-80's version of today's Coldwater and Maria Stein. Delphos comes to mind as well for small school success in the past decades.

There is no shame in not being the "best" player on the field...grinders and those kids that help anywhere they can...often get more out of this experience than the "superstar" long-term. Being part of something bigger than you is what the MAC schools represents to me.

Wheelersburg has a good program and good academics. But location means alot. Kids from New Boston, Sciotoville East, South Webster, Green, and Minford can easily drive there. Some are closer to Wheelersburg than their home schools. Location Location Location.
.

population density

[kuruguru]

Looking at Coldwater on the map, it looks like they would also have the luxury of drawing from some of the little towns around them that don't offer football. 80-85 kids on a team seems awfully high for a DIV 5 school.

Before someone says it, I'm not implying that they recruit but that they have more kids to pool from. Most of your SEO teams basically have to pool from what kids are in there town. Sure, you will get a player every now and then that goes to another school, but that usually amounts to one kid and he usually is not going to be that big of a difference maker.

Formerfcfan made some great remarks and probably hit the nail on the head but still think that is a lot of kids playing from just one town.

population density

[kuruguru]

Excellent posts.
Demographics and location mean everything. I like how formerfcfan broke down the numbers and the way local teams are fortunate to get 60 or more players.

Urban areas definitely have an advantage that kids are close to the schools. Many kids in large rural school districts really can't play ball as they are a 20 mile ride from the school.

Kids from successful home environments where the parents don't make excuses for their kids and push them a little more are more apt to work and play.

Families that are more financially stable are able to give their children opportunities that poorer families cannot such as AAU Basketball.

again

population density

[Westfan]

The common denominator is a strong youth program.

Coldwater and Marion Local don't have youth football programs. This may be to their benefit because they are not tired of the game and look forward to playing football when they get into the 7th grade.

Are you certain of this? MAC football was a topic on JJHUDDLE a while back and I thought they said they did have youth football.

[obschwie]

The common denominator is a strong youth program.

Coldwater and Marion Local don't have youth football programs. This may be to their benefit because they are not tired of the game and look forward to playing football when they get into the 7th grade.

Are you certain of this? MAC football was a topic on JJHUDDLE a while back and I thought they said they did have youth football.

100% positive.

[Spamoony]

Coldwater and Marion Local don't have youth football programs. This may be to their benefit because they are not tired of the game and look forward to playing football when they get into the 7th grade.

Are you certain of this? MAC football was a topic on JJHUDDLE a while back and I thought they said they did have youth football.

100% positive.

You are 100% wrong. they have 5th&6th league just like Burg. no more than 12-13 kids per team (like Burg).... oh and no daddies coaching (like Burg)

[Thanos]

Coldwater does not have pee wee football. The tradition of hard work, team, and winning is all over Coldwater. Drive to that small farm town and you will America at its finest. Three sports they value. Football, Wrestling, Bowling.

[Spamoony]

I guess I should call my cousins and tell them to quit lying about coaching youth football at Coldwater. since it don't exist lol

[obschwie]

I guess I should call my cousins and tell them to quit lying about coaching youth football at Coldwater playing football. since it don't exist lol

You should make that call unless they are referring to Coldwater, Michigan. They may be referring to what us Americans call "soccer".

[BudLytle]

Are you certain of this? MAC football was a topic on JJHUDDLE a while back and I thought they said they did have youth football.

100% positive.

You are 100% wrong. they have 5th&6th league just like Burg. no more than 12-13 kids per team (like Burg).... oh and no daddies coaching (like Burg)

Given this yhen you would have to say youth programs have little to no impact. (Burg) is doing the same thing with youth programs these powerhouses are and (Burg) can not compete with these programs year in/year out.

[kodeman419]

I guess I should call my cousins and tell them to quit lying about coaching youth football at Coldwater. since it don't exist lol

Cold-water and Marion local do not have youth football. They start in 7th grade.