PRIVATES / PAROCHIALS, UGH !!!

[FANOSPORTS]

This is why I quit going to the State finals this year after decades of attending. It's getting worse all the time. Hartley with a lopsided score, Delphos St. John wasn't even a game. The Watterson and St. Ed's game should be a lot closer tomorrow but they should both win and Ursuline will win going away. The DII game matches two public schools tonight but even both of them Trotwood-Madison (Dayton area) and Maple Heights (Cleveland area) recruit from their surrounding areas so it's a no win situation for town or neighborhood schools anymore. I'm actually having a good time watching the games from my living room this year and saving money at the same time. I don't know that OHSAA will ever separate parochials and publics but there's got to be a better way. Congrats to all the "real" public schools for making the playoff's and we can always hope one breaks through every now and then but it's getting less likely every year in all sports.

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

Waiting for the private school fan to chime in crying about them not having any schools in D-2 Final?

I am betting it does not happen.


For the record I am on the train saying something needs to be done to even this out.

[Steely Dan]

Guys - I've been on record before, and will say it again, Ohio needs to follow what Tennessee has done with this issue. Don't establish two different class system of playoffs. Let's recognize the inherent advantage that parochial and private schools have about selectivity, and limiting enrollment.

Use an enrollment factor to determine where your school plays in terms of sports. As an example, I believe (don't hold me to this, I'm going from my feeble memory) that Tennessee applies a factor of 1.75 to the smallest school division for private/catholic schools, to the enrollment used to determine in which class you play. So, as an example, if Mother St. Mary's of the Goodfellow in Brentwood, Tennessee had an enrollment of 100 boys in high school, the Tennessee High School Athletic Association applies a factor of 1.75 to the number of boys used to determine athletic class. That means, using the factor, MSMG has to play in the division an enrollment of 175 boys. That would push a DVI school to DV (almost DIV) here in Ohio, in terms of what class they would compete.

So, how would DSJ do in D IV this year? They may have won, but it would have certainly been competitive. Something to think about...........

[Sweet Pea]

steeley

agree 100000% !!!!

And i watched the 1st 2 games today and i think that Hartley and DSJ would have been a hell of a matchup!!

late
sweetpea

[55buckeyes98]

Waiting for the private school fan to chime in crying about them not having any schools in D-2 Final?

I am betting it does not happen.


For the record I am on the train saying something needs to be done to even this out.

When private schools only make up 15 percent of all schools in Ohio they should technically only have 2-3 teams in the finals and public should have 9-10 if you go on percentages...

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

Of those 15% what percentage of those teams have been in the playoffs?
How many of those schools win yearly?
How many of those teams have state titles(In football)

[55buckeyes98]

Exactly makes it even worse...

[Steely Dan]

Use the enrollment factor, the smaller you are, the bigger the factor. Problem solved.

125 boys or less in a private school? Guess, what times a 2.0 factor, that's 250 boys. You now play D III in football. That pretty much levels the playing field, now doesn't it? And, it eliminates any incentive to limit enrollment, does it not?

Just sayin'.......

End this disparity, and end it now. The OHSAA is losing credibility big time, year in and year out. Look at the attendance at today's games. Did you watch any of them on TV? The stands were empty......

They need to clean things up, make them right, level the playing field, kill the live TV contract, and move the games to a centralized location. Otherwise, the almighty dollar is going to continue to shrink for the OHSAA, and eventually, they will ruin the best thing that they have going for them.

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

So your are telling me a team like Fisher Catholic should be playing 2 to 3 Div up?

That's funny.

I agree something needs changed but that is just too funny.
2010 records Div 6
Norwalk St Paul 7-3
Tiffin Calvert 4-6
Bedford St Peter Chanel 2-7
Sandusky St Mary Central Catholic 1-9
Youngstown Youngstown Christian 1-9
Delphos St John's 10-0(STATE CHAMPS)
Toledo Toledo Christian 8-2
Fremont St Joseph Central Catholic 9-1(AFTER YEARS OF LOSING)
Fostoria St Wendelin 1-3(COULD NOT FIELD TEAM TO COMPLETE YEAR)
Newark Newark Catholic 7-3
Lancaster Fairfield Christian Academy 9-0
Columbus Harvest Prep 6-4
New Philadelphia Tuscarawas Central Catholic 4-6
Zanesville Bishop Rosecrans 3-7
Grove City Grove City Christian 3-7
Bellaire St John Central 2-8(0-8 AGAINST OHIO SCHOOLS)
Steubenville Catholic Central 1-9
Lancaster Fisher Catholic 1-9
Springfield Catholic Central 9-1
Sidney Lehman Catholic 9-1
Portsmouth Notre Dame 5-5
Troy Christian 4-6
Cincinnati Riverview East Academy 1-3
Indian Springs Cincinnati Christian 1-8

[Steely Dan]

NCF - I just threw that out there for illustrative purposes. Come on, I'd never expect Bellaire St. Johns to be subjected to a 2.0 factor. However, if memory serves me correctly, that's pretty much how the Tennessee model works, and in talking with some friend from Tennessee, it works pretty dog gone well.

That's not the ultimate solution, but at least a viable alternative to what has been proposed with two completely separate playoff systems. No one wins there, right?

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

NCF - I just threw that out there for illustrative purposes. Come on, I'd never expect Bellaire St. Johns to be subjected to a 2.0 factor. However, if memory serves me correctly, that's pretty much how the Tennessee model works, and in talking with some friend from Tennessee, it works pretty dog gone well.

That's not the ultimate solution, but at least a viable alternative to what has been proposed with two completely separate playoff systems. No one wins there, right?

I really knew this but I am betting some thought it was a good plan. I only wanted to show it really wasn't.

I do agree something needs to be done.
I am hoping a spil is not the answer but I am betting that is what will end up happening.

[bad breath]

Let's be blunt here, NCF. We all know the powerhouse Catholic high schools recruit. You know it, we know it, the balless OHSAA knows it, everyone knows it. Coaches, administrators, players and fans are tired of it. Plain and simple. Spin it anyway you want, but basically it's cheating.

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

I went to a public school.
As far as recruiting goes where is the proff that any of the catholic schools are doing this and how are they getting away with it.

If they are doing this I would think the recruiter for Newark Catholic would be fired after seeing the tiny/slow/short roster they have.

Add to that one playoff win in three seasons(Only making the playoff once in the last three)

[bad breath]

^^^"recruiter for Newark Catholic"...lol Thanks for making my point.

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

Made your point?
That's funny.

[coal miner's son]

Economics is the reason Newark Catholic isn't as powerful as in the past. Same reason for Steubenville CC and Bellaire SJ. There aren't as many people (kids) to recruit from because mom and dad have moved away. At one time, Bellaire SJ was as large enrollment as Bellaire Big Reds. Same thing goes for Steubenville CC. Once steel mills closed, the well went dry. This isn't the case in other parts of Ohio.

Let's look at another example. Wheeling CC is in the AA state championship game AGAIN this year in WV. EVERY good kid in Ohio County goes to Wheeling Central. They don't go to Wheeling Park.

[ManitouDan]

Good winning programs with tradition recruit themselves , they don't need anyone out there breaking rules to get fine athelet's to transfer in.

Loved the post showing exactly what d-6 private/parochials did this season. As a Portsmouth ND member I can say that adding any factor , whether it's 1.25 or 3 , would be grossly unfair. We (and I'm sure others) struggle to be competitive as it is now. 1 year above 500 in the past 5 ?? And you want to talk about applying a penality to us ? We have usually 35-40 males in the entire school and a participation rate of above 80% to field a team of 22-28 kids and you want to "make it fair " SCREW THAT !

Kids want to go where than win. always have , always will. The cause/effect of this suggestion would be several D'6's give up football IMO. It would have side effect of lot's of govt corrections "The law of UNintended consequences" . MD

[GAHS83]

I'm not willing to say that all private schools recruit. I'm betting that it isn't as prevalent as most public school people seem to think. I'm also not naive enough to think it doesn't happen at all. That being said, private schools that make sports an emphasis, have an inherent advantage in that kids that have talent will simply go to these schools to get in a better program provided that they can afford it. That in itself is a good enough reason to do something about the issue. I think some kind of enrollment multiplier is a good idea.

NCF, I hear what you're saying about the records of the small private schools. However, do you honestly think most of them are making sports a priority? I'd say the majority of the schools you listed are geared more toward education and sports are just something they're able to offer if kids want to participate. Again, I'd say most, not all. If my statement is true, why would it matter to those schools if they played up in D4 or D5? They're not going to make the playoffs anyway. I'm guessing that many of them have small enough enrollment that they may stay D6 anyway.

The perennial powerhouse private schools all play that kind of schedule anyway. Newark Catholic plays in primarily a D3 league, Watterson and Desales play primarily a D1/D2 schedule, etc. Would it hurt those schools to play up a level? Again, I'm just picking out the few that best illustrate my point. Not all private schools do this and there are those that it would hurt. However, the top tier private schools are the ones we're talking about unbalancing the system. The problem is that the problem is just going to compound itself with the current setup. The private schools that have success are going to continue to get better talent than a public school of the same size.

[GAHS83]

Good winning programs with tradition recruit themselves , they don't need anyone out there breaking rules to get fine athelet's to transfer in.

Loved the post showing exactly what d-6 private/parochials did this season. As a Portsmouth ND member I can say that adding any factor , whether it's 1.25 or 3 , would be grossly unfair. We (and I'm sure others) struggle to be competitive as it is now. 1 year above 500 in the past 5 ?? And you want to talk about applying a penality to us ? We have usually 35-40 males in the entire school and a participation rate of above 80% to field a team of 22-28 kids and you want to "make it fair " SCREW THAT !

Kids want to go where than win. always have , always will. The cause/effect of this suggestion would be several D'6's give up football IMO. It would have side effect of lot's of govt corrections "The law of UNintended consequences" . MD

That's why you apply the modifier to the population of the school and not just arbitrarily raise them up a division. If you have 40 boys in the entire school and apply a 1.75 modifier to the population, you'd be at 70 boys and still be in D6. It wouldn't affect a school like ND and wouldn't affect many of the smallest population private schools.

[Westfan]

exactly gahs83

a multiplier isn't going to change anyone's schedule. Take Portmouth Notre Dame. They will still be in the SOC 1. That won't change. In fact, if they were D5, it may be easier for them to find games locally because the opponent would have more points gain in a win. They may not have to drive to Columbus to find non-conference games. And just face it, D6 or D5, their not going to advance in the playoffs anyway.

The other thing that drives me nuts about this is the 15%. How many public schools are you penalizing to protect 15%. And of that 15%, only about 5% of them consistantly win. So we are penalizing all these public schools to protect just a small number of schools like Ursuline college.