PRIVATES / PAROCHIALS, UGH !!!

[vladimir]

Greg Frye on STO just made me laugh, he brought up this very subject with announcing the D5 game, and said, "It's not running up the score, it's the public schools need to get a better football team." Well Mr. Frye we public Joes just cannot go out and get a better football team, we have to work with the kids in our community. Funny how the OHSAA put a big stop to open enrollment in regards to sports, but the private schools can move kids in and out as much as they want.

[eagles73Taylor]

My biggest beef is the fact that small public schools in rural settings seem to be the types of schools that open enrollment and being private doesnt give much of a chance at succeeding at a high state level.

At Piketon we get about 30% participation rate for boys, and about 25% for girls in sports. We have about 80% free and reduced lunch plans as well. Now take a private school who is DIV, what is their average participation and lunch plan percentages?

This is a problem for Southeast Ohio. Population spread out and socio economically strapped.

[Orange and Brown]

Use the enrollment factor, the smaller you are, the bigger the factor. Problem solved.

125 boys or less in a private school? Guess, what times a 2.0 factor, that's 250 boys. You now play D III in football. That pretty much levels the playing field, now doesn't it? And, it eliminates any incentive to limit enrollment, does it not?

Just sayin'.......

End this disparity, and end it now. The OHSAA is losing credibility big time, year in and year out. Look at the attendance at today's games. Did you watch any of them on TV? The stands were empty......

They need to clean things up, make them right, level the playing field, kill the live TV contract, and move the games to a centralized location. Otherwise, the almighty dollar is going to continue to shrink for the OHSAA, and eventually, they will ruin the best thing that they have going for them.

There are private schools out there that make the playoffs once a decade and now you want them to be punished because of a FEW other private schools. That isn't something I think is fair. Not all Private schools recruit. Truth be told only a handful of them do. I like the idea but we have to find something that is fair for everyone.

[Steely Dan]

O&B - Until someone comes up with a better idea, I like the use of the multiplier. It won't hurt the smaller parochials, but those that keep their enrollment right at the cutoff for the next division will be impacted. No solution will be completely fair in everyone's eyes, let's face it.

Some good posts, comments, and thoughts about this from the folks that have spoken out on this issue. I don't believe anyone would say that we should just leave things as they are, as the disparity in who is making it to the championship games, and winning, continues to grow.

There is a clear imbalance in the way things are today, so, something should be done. I will be very surprised if anyone from the OHSAA can come up with a number of compelling reasons that the masses would agree with to leave things as they are.

Unless they do something about it, I see irreparable damage to the OHSAA "brand", and they will continue to lose support, attendance, and revenue at these state football championships.

[eagles73Taylor]

o&b, so punishing a small percentage of privates is bad, but punishing a decent amount of average size rural publics is ok? Open enrollment has evened the playing field with public schools in or near urban areas. However, small rural public schools, open enrollment isnt enough, IMO.

[fuzzhead]

To me, if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. If that means going through Our Lady of the Lake of Archbishop McJofus, well then say your hail Marys and strap em up. The idea of splitting them up between public and private divisions is dumb and just leaves more questions than answers when the season is done. You're basically putting an aterisk by every state title won in either division.

[Orange and Brown]

^^^"recruiter for Newark Catholic"...lol Thanks for making my point.

He wasn't being serious smart guy.

[FANOSPORTS]

Ursuline's coach could have put up 70 points today if he wanted to and probably could have held Coldwater to the 7 points they got in the first half. He played second and third teamer's the majority of the second half. There is just such a disparity that something has to be done in the near future. It's getting rediculous.

[selonmc]

OHSAA is getting embarrassed when you have one of your state title games finish 77-6, and another 44-7 at half. Last year one finished 55-25. And this is just the D5 and D6 games. Catholic schools have won 5 of the last 6 D6 titles. Thank God for the MAC conference (public ones) or it would be worse.

I like the muliplier idea. Something has to be done with teams like Ursuline. Sorry if it hurts Portsmouth Notre Dame, but in all honesty I don't really care about Portsmouth Notre Dame. Plus I think it can be done so it doesn't hurt PND. Ursuline couldn't win anything in D4 so then magically 2 years ago they appear 3 boys shy of the D4 line. Come on.

[Charles Farquar]

What if the best always have inherent advantages over the others , advantages that the other schools will never have? Anyway you look at it , its not a level playing field. Rural districts in Southeastern Ohio have to wait for that once in a schools history group of athletes that may or may not come through. The private schools if they choose to with the way things are set up can aritifically create that situation the rural public school has to wait for and do it every year. It would be interesting to see how many familes can actually afford
the tuition at some of these places without the help of some sort of scholarship or hardship financing where alumni or interested people in the area provide monetary support that allows the family to afford it. Two students come in both have the same financial hardships. Student A runs a 4.4 40 and is 6 foot 3 and 220 pounds and is a proven athlete at another school, Student B is 5 foot 7 and weights 145 pounds and runs a 5.0 40. You may get situtations where the school says Student A we realize that your family cannot afford the tuition here but we recognize your families financial hardships and we will find the money somehow. Im sorry Student B we cannot admit you, you will bring down our test scores and the money is just not there. Read between the lines we want to keep our school aritifically at the D 6 or D 5 level and at the same time have D I talent on our team. It doesnt matter if the school only has 40 boys , if they are the right ones and the school has advantages of choosing those right ones . Meanwhile the public school is waiting for kids to randomly enroll, however they have to accept everyone and their numbers keep going up and the kids that are enrolling are there because they have been kicked out of someplace else or the family is jumping from community to community because they are running out on the rent they didnt pay, its not the same playing field and it will never be.

[fuzzhead]

If you're going to do the multiplier thing, you have to take into consideration the size of a given metropolitan area. The teams from the larger cities are primarily the ones who would seem to have a bigger advantage. Notre Dame shouldn't have to be subject to this when they're from a much smaller part of Ohio. There's a difference between recruiting from Scioto County and recruiting from Youngstown.

[Run Bubba Run]

I feel the pain, but I think this year, Ursuline would be OK in any division but maybe Div. I.

This is from the eitel site:

Ursuline 2010

8/26 H East Technical (2-7) [2:6] W 40-0
9/4 H Bethlehem Catholic (PA) (2-7) [4:0] W 50-14
9/10 H Lake Catholic (9-1) [2:5] W 14-10
9/17 H Bedford (2-8) [2:6] W 33-15
9/24 A Notre Dame-Cathedral Latin (3-7) [3:9] W 53-14
10/2 H St Thomas Aquinas (5-5) [5:17] W 52-14
10/8 H St Charles (5-4) [2:7] W 49-20
10/15 A Steubenville (8-2) [3:11] W 24-3
10/22 H Cardinal Mooney (5-4) [3:9] W 44-7
10/28 A St Vincent-St Mary (6-4) [3:9] W 24-7

They played only one Div 5 team and manhandled Steubenville and Mooney. Good recruiting four years ago for sure. Three straight Div 5 titles by lopsided scores.

[Orange and Brown]

I'm not sure we will ever come up with an answer that will be fair to all.

[FANOSPORTS]

I'm not sure we will ever come up with an answer that will be fair to all.

Agreed, but something must be done :122247

[BG65]

If you can't come up with something that is fair to all, why change? You are just moving the disparity to another location. You haven't dealt with the problem, you just want to hang it on someone else.

[fuzzhead]

Yeah, but only two of the games were blowouts. If Buchtel had a kicker, they'd have won. There were A few key plays that kept Wayne from winning. Especially the fact that they let Ed's drive down the field and score in the course of a minute! Hartley was an underdog against CF just like they were when they played Ironton the 2nd time.

[superblue]

Got back late last night from Canton and just starting to warm back up.. Everyone seems to agree that something needs done ASAP. The D5 & 6 finals are a good example. Finding a fair solution is the problem... The playing field will never be level & we all know that. Massillon probably spends more $$$ heating their indoor practice building than most schools in Ohio spend on their entire athletic budget,,,LOL..... Do we deal with the private schools that are creating problems or do we treat all private schools the same???? And don't forget that these problems also exist in other sports.....

[friday_nite_fan]

I listened to the games on the radio as I sit in the stands and watched them and the public/private school debate came up. Simply put, one of the announcers said if you don't like getting beat by parochials, GET BETTER. I could care less either way what the OHSAA does, just please don't split the finals because I really enjoy making the trip to Massillon/Canton and seeing the best Ohio has to offer in one trip.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

you can still see the best of both. i told you guys earlier the only division that had a shot at a public win was d2. before the finals were announced. otherwise, it is simply overcomable.

[FANOSPORTS]

I listened to the games on the radio as I sit in the stands and watched them and the public/private school debate came up. Simply put, one of the announcers said if you don't like getting beat by parochials, GET BETTER. I could care less either way what the OHSAA does, just please don't split the finals because I really enjoy making the trip to Massillon/Canton and seeing the best Ohio has to offer in one trip.

That was ex-osu qb Greg Frey that made the comment about "Get Better" (I believe he went to Cincy St. Xavier in high school). Another comment that was made after the Buchtel - Watterson game that I thought was pretty interesting was when Buchtel was handed the 2nd place trophy and the telecast was winding down one of the announcers said it's a great accomplishment and "the children that live in Akron today watched this game and they too may want to go to Buchtel" in the future and he was referring to the city of Akron (a little recruiting goes on in public schools also, especially in bigger cities). Another thing, with Tobias's post above, I believe any informed fan of Ohio hs football knows that the public schools listed winning championships above such as the Princeton's, McKinley's and Brookhaven's of the world also have a lot of "transfers" every year so let's not kid ourselves.