PRIVATES / PAROCHIALS, UGH !!!

[dilligaf]

ok here is my two cents put all private schools in div 1.Even the div 6 private schools have enough good athaletes to play in div 1 they make sure of that.For the private schools who dont get the recrutes every year it dont matter they will never win a champonship game anyways.There is no way a school with 60 or 70 boys could field a team with 35 really good fb players every year alot of div 1 schools cant even do that.

[madpolecat]

Somebody should start a charter school in Scioto County and call it the Scioto Gridiron Academy.

You could limit the enrollment at 100 boys and require that as part of the course of study, each and every student has to either play or support football.

Academics would go from 0800 until noon. Half hour lunch. Academics until 1430.

Then Football related activities until 1830 every night during the season.

In the off-season, there would be lifting, speed training, and film study for boys who didn't want to wrestle in the winter or run track in the spring.

All this, and we could get the Ohio Department of Education to foot the bill.

[Chieftain]

There are two types of parochials in the state.

1. Parochials who exist for an education, have no booster clubs raising funds for schollies for athletes or take in many if any inner city kids with state vouchers who are very athletic. They sometimes have winning records , but losing records are quite common, 1-9,2-8,3-7,etc.

2. Parochials that exist for an education AND want to excell in athletics have booster clubs who raise large sums of money for schollies for athletes in 5-10 cities that they pull athletes from and who line up good ahtletes from innercity schools and have them get state vouchers to pay for the tuition. These teams regularly are in State tournaments playing for a title and win some with season records of 7-3,8-2,9-1 or 10-0 that get them into the tournament often.

Those who have no booster club funds for schollies and take in no voucher athletes from inner city schools can stay in their current division. Those who give schollies to athletes from the booster clubs or sign up inner city athletes with state vouchers automatically are assigned D-I yearly, no matter their enrollment.

Presto -- fairness in competition. Divide up close to even numbers in 6 divisions and go at it.

[dilligaf]

There are two types of parochials in the state.

1. Parochials who exist for an education, have no booster clubs raising funds for schollies for athletes or take in many if any inner city kids with state vouchers who are very athletic. They sometimes have winning records , but losing records are quite common, 1-9,2-8,3-7,etc.

2. Parochials that exist for an education AND want to excell in athletics have booster clubs who raise large sums of money for schollies for athletes in 5-10 cities that they pull athletes from and who line up good ahtletes from innercity schools and have them get state vouchers to pay for the tuition. These teams regularly are in State tournaments playing for a title and win some with season records of 7-3,8-2,9-1 or 10-0 that get them into the tournament often.

Those who have no booster club funds for schollies and take in no voucher athletes from inner city schools can stay in their current division. Those who give schollies to athletes from the booster clubs or sign up inner city athletes with state vouchers automatically are assigned D-I yearly, no matter their enrollment.

Presto -- fairness in competition. Divide up close to even numbers in 6 divisions and go at it.

totally agree

[trojandave]

Yes, the private/parochial schools won 5 of 6 championships, but many of the games were competitive with the exception of the Ursuline/Coldwater game........Buchtel lost because they didn't have a kicker, Wayne gave favorite St.Ed's all they could handle, and the D2 game was between two public schools.........the publics only won 1 title, but it's not like they didn't show up at all.

The system will never be perfect, no matter how much you tweak it........there are some who don't like parochials, don't like urban public schools that can "attract" the top athletes.......in an imperfect world, the one thing that a school can control is its own program, hence the words "GET BETTER" do ring true........easier said than done, but probably more realistic than making sweeping changes that completely alter the landscape of the OHSAA playoffs.

Hilliard Davidson is just one example, and a good one at that, of just deciding to "GET BETTER".......HD was basically an unknown program, then Brian White took over, and the Wildcats went on to win 2 state titles in the last 6 years, and a Final 4 appearance this season........I didn't hear Coach White or anybody else at HD complain about parochial/private school domination........instead, they chose to "GET BETTER".........and they've got 2 state championship trophies to prove it.

For another example, how about the Midwest Athletic Conference? St. John's isn't the only school from the MAC to win state titles.......as any passionate Ohio HS football fan knows, the MAC has a bunch of state titles........Coldwater, St.Henry, Versailles, Maria Stein Marion Local.........those schools made the committment long ago to "GET BETTER"........and today they are one of the most talked about conferences in the state.......and St.John's is the only private school in the MAC.

To try and "GET BETTER" should always be the first option for a school in its quest to win a state football championship........at Portsmouth, our main concern should be to "GET BETTER", and since we've never been to Massillon or Canton, that is goal #1.

[mister b]

In 2006, private schools comprised 10% of the total number of schools that fielded football teams. (73 out of 717 teams)

Using Tobias's list from above, private schools had won 84 of the 172 football championships thru 2006.

That means that 10% of the schools, as a group, have won 48% of the total number of football championships throughout the years.

[dilligaf]

Ok HD never cried about it,they just wnt and recruited there own players wich is fine they played in div one i just think recruteing players then keeping your overall numbers low enough to stay in smaller div is bs its cheating thats all there is to it.And for the public schools that made any kinda of showing in the championship games they are doing the same thing so if you want to set around and say get better then i guess you mean get better ast beating the system.So for all you small town fans setting around talking about that ten 10 and 0 season and makeing some noise in the playoffs get real its not going to happen maybe once every 20 years if you are lucky.It would kinda be like wrestling if you could doctor up your weights so you could wrestle heavyweights against lightwieghts same thing same result.

[Heavy D]

Ok HD never cried about it,they just wnt and recruited there own players wich is fine they played in div one i just think recruteing players then keeping your overall numbers low enough to stay in smaller div is bs its cheating thats all there is to it.And for the public schools that made any kinda of showing in the championship games they are doing the same thing so if you want to set around and say get better then i guess you mean get better ast beating the system.So for all you small town fans setting around talking about that ten 10 and 0 season and makeing some noise in the playoffs get real its not going to happen maybe once every 20 years if you are lucky.It would kinda be like wrestling if you could doctor up your weights so you could wrestle heavyweights against lightwieghts same thing same result.

I knew you was a wrestler! Well, OK the ears gave it away.

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

Went to a public school
I still want some paper proof to show the school that are recruiting and then I want to see this paper work taken to the ohsaa.

Also please list the schools that are recruiting.
Because some of these recruiters need fired being the players they are recruiting are not helping the schools they are recruited to win state titles or have a winning record for that matter.

I think each school should be like Mooney who list any players former school if they have not been in their system from the start.

[The Wizard]

The problem with the multiplier is for the D1 schools. I believe there exists a bigger problem in D1 than the "public vs private" debate. The is such a gap between the larger D1 schools and the ones that just qualify as D1 (two boys over). Now you are going to move even more into that bracket, how is that fair when it hard enough to compete with the ones we already have in D1.

Either have different tourneys or do away with classes and go with geographical regions and one winner out of each region to semi's and finals reguardless of school size. Since only a handful really ever have a chance then lets find out who is the best of the best.

[Vision Quest]

This year's finals do make things skewed.

[Blackjack]

There are two types of parochials in the state.

1. Parochials who exist for an education, have no booster clubs raising funds for schollies for athletes or take in many if any inner city kids with state vouchers who are very athletic. They sometimes have winning records , but losing records are quite common, 1-9,2-8,3-7,etc.

2. Parochials that exist for an education AND want to excell in athletics have booster clubs who raise large sums of money for schollies for athletes in 5-10 cities that they pull athletes from and who line up good ahtletes from innercity schools and have them get state vouchers to pay for the tuition. These teams regularly are in State tournaments playing for a title and win some with season records of 7-3,8-2,9-1 or 10-0 that get them into the tournament often.

Those who have no booster club funds for schollies and take in no voucher athletes from inner city schools can stay in their current division. Those who give schollies to athletes from the booster clubs or sign up inner city athletes with state vouchers automatically are assigned D-I yearly, no matter their enrollment.

Presto -- fairness in competition. Divide up close to even numbers in 6 divisions and go at it.


Your best post of the year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1987chieftains]

There are two types of parochials in the state.

1. Parochials who exist for an education, have no booster clubs raising funds for schollies for athletes or take in many if any inner city kids with state vouchers who are very athletic. They sometimes have winning records , but losing records are quite common, 1-9,2-8,3-7,etc.

2. Parochials that exist for an education AND want to excell in athletics have booster clubs who raise large sums of money for schollies for athletes in 5-10 cities that they pull athletes from and who line up good ahtletes from innercity schools and have them get state vouchers to pay for the tuition. These teams regularly are in State tournaments playing for a title and win some with season records of 7-3,8-2,9-1 or 10-0 that get them into the tournament often.

Those who have no booster club funds for schollies and take in no voucher athletes from inner city schools can stay in their current division. Those who give schollies to athletes from the booster clubs or sign up inner city athletes with state vouchers automatically are assigned D-I yearly, no matter their enrollment.

Presto -- fairness in competition. Divide up close to even numbers in 6 divisions and go at it.

totally agree

DIDDO

[eccedomusscientiae]

There are two types of parochials in the state.

1. Parochials who exist for an education, have no booster clubs raising funds for schollies for athletes or take in many if any inner city kids with state vouchers who are very athletic. They sometimes have winning records , but losing records are quite common, 1-9,2-8,3-7,etc.

2. Parochials that exist for an education AND want to excell in athletics have booster clubs who raise large sums of money for schollies for athletes in 5-10 cities that they pull athletes from and who line up good ahtletes from innercity schools and have them get state vouchers to pay for the tuition. These teams regularly are in State tournaments playing for a title and win some with season records of 7-3,8-2,9-1 or 10-0 that get them into the tournament often.

Those who have no booster club funds for schollies and take in no voucher athletes from inner city schools can stay in their current division. Those who give schollies to athletes from the booster clubs or sign up inner city athletes with state vouchers automatically are assigned D-I yearly, no matter their enrollment.

Presto -- fairness in competition. Divide up close to even numbers in 6 divisions and go at it.

I believe you will see a proposal very soon to the OHSAA that will create a formula that will realign the divisions. I like Paladins idea, but I also think you will see other circumstances put into the equation. Paladin makes a good point about Southeast Ohio and inner city schools not doing well on the athletic fields and courts. One of the many reasons for that is because the focus in those districts is survival and not athletics. I think you will have to consider demographics more into the equation on divisions and not just numbers. Succes should also be in the equation. I believe a divison 6 school that has won multiple state titles, should have to compete up a division at least.

[BLACK FALCON]

Wheeling Central Cath. has won state title 7 times in last 10 yrs. in WV single A

[BG65]

ecce--do those numerous titles need to have been in this century or 20 years ago?

[eccedomusscientiae]

ecce--do those numerous titles need to have been in this century or 20 years ago?

Good question. I think they will probably consider back at least 10 years. Titles probably wont be the only factor. I would say playoff appearances will effect your divisional status, along with demographics, etc. I think you will see something in the next few years.

[BG65]

That seems to be reasonable

[55buckeyes98]

This was posted on the other site..........

I had a 40+ minute phone conversation with Commissioner Ross 2 weeks ago.
He asked me to wait until last week to speak of any of this.
Below are a number of things that were being discussed:

He said the "talk" of separation grows stronger...and it's not just based on football complaints. He mentioned "non-publics" winning every division in Volleyball as well as boys or girls soccer. He said that they receive calls from numerous admins complaining about non-publics and to some extent, open enrollment as well. He/they are well aware of the strong possibility that if there were a separation, the non-publics would likely leave to form their own association.

He said he did not want separation, but realized changes may come. In lieu of total separation, below are some of the ideas being talked about.

(Percentages would be added or subtracted from schools based on a variance of situations)

* The one deduction he mentioned would be....based on the # of kids in a school receiving FREE lunch, that school would have a percentage DEDUCTED from their total number. (Public or Non-Public)


* Then the following factors would have percentages ADDED to their number in this order (the actual % numbers were NOT certain at that time!):


- Closed Enrollment/Boundary Locked Public Schools = NO % ADDED

- Adjacent Open Enrollment Public = the lowest % ADDED

- Statewide Open Enrollment Public = the next higher % ADDED

- Bounded Non-Public = the next higher % ADDED

- Unbounded Non-Public = the highest % ADDED


* Then….there is also the talk of ADDING a “Tradition Factor” for each INDIVIDUAL sport (football, basketball, softball, etc.)


* For the PREVIOUS FOUR YEARS…if your school, in any given sport, has made (for example, also not etched in stone) the regionals or beyond 3 or more times, there will be an additional % ADDED to your total number. This would be for ALL SCHOOLS (Non-Public AND Public). This would be for EVERY school and every SPORT (individually) within that school. So if your baseball team was very successful that past 4 years, they would get an additional % added...but if your girls soccer team was not, they would not be affected by the success of the baseball team.

These are some, not all, of the things they are discussing. Commissioner Ross was very sincere in his concern for what's best for ALL the student athletes participating in the OHSAA. I truly believe he/they will do what's necessary to ensure the future success of high school sports in Ohio.

[BG65]

D4,5 & 6 will be affected more by the 4 year suggestion than others. There are many smaller schools who play in competitive leagues, in all sports, with larger schools who actually step down to play in the tournament. My point is that you can take each of these suggestions and point to schools who are going to get hurt. In most cases, it will not be the big schools. If you are going to "separate", just do it and keep the same numerics for the divisions. I firmly believe you will end up with people wanting a championship playoff and, I believe, the same schools will respond and rise to the occasion!!!