week 8: west @ waverly

[dreamweaver]

The only delusional one around is the big WARRIOR. You are awful sure of yourself. Maybe we could rename you KNOW IT ALL ..bwhahaha.

[NewEra]

Quarterback dual in this matchup. You would assume the edge goes to Bolin with the experience, but Irwin can pistol whip the ball around pretty good too. Coin flip in Waverly.

[dreamweaver]

Siderman, one thing about the 5-2, I have seen both college and high school championships won with this defense in the last 5 yrs. I think it is versatile if done correctly. West, Burg and Ironton all use it. West has some 15yr olds that are learning and seem to be improving to me. It can drop into a prevent defense or a nickel package with a few steps. Patriots use a version of it, so I sure wouldn't call it a 1950's defense.

[Westsider1993]

Our 5-2 is used as a base. The ends are. It used it coverage. If they were used properly it would give us a different look.

[dreamweaver]

Our 5-2 is used as a base. The ends are. It used it coverage. If they were used properly it would give us a different look.

Defensive ends went man on the #2 recievers in Peake game(when they ran the pistol) which left West in a 4-2. It may look like a base 5-2 but its not.

[Westfan]

Siderman, one thing about the 5-2, I have seen both college and high school championships won with this defense in the last 5 yrs. I think it is versatile if done correctly. West, Burg and Ironton all use it. West has some 15yr olds that are learning and seem to be improving to me. It can drop into a prevent defense or a nickel package with a few steps. Patriots use a version of it, so I sure wouldn't call it a 1950's defense.

I don't want to argue about it, but I seriously doubt you will find any college or professional teams that aren't 4-3 or 3-4 base. In fact you will find very few high schools running it with all the spread offenses today. Now will they play a 5-2 if they play us or Ironton, whom are 2 tight ends alot? Yes. But not against teams that have 3, 4, or 5 receiver sets. They will go 4 man line and walk a linebacker up on run downs or blitzes. That is what you see at 5-2.

If you went to the Wilmington scrimmage you saw what 5 wides will do to this defense. You have 4 covering 5. Lets just say the numbers aren't in your favor. And you can't expect an end, whom hasn't played coverage all year to suddenly play in space. It won't happen.

Even Ironton has went to a 3-3-5 in the past against spread teams. Wheelersburg has historically changed defenses from opponent to opponent. Even during the game, their defensive line is always moving. Eagling down, gapping, playing games; trying to mess up the blocking schemes. Ours never moves and is too vanilla.

One thing I've noticed, and it killed us against Minford and Valley, is our safeties play way to shallow. That first TD for valley was a 3 and 14. Why play your safeties up that close so they can't possibly help the corner. Play a deep cover 2 or at least a cover 1 and keep the play in front. Instead we leave them on an island and it's 6. Not to mention how many tight ends have burned us from Chillicothe and Minford. Back them up and let them read. Its much easier to go forward than backward.

[Westfan]

Our 5-2 is used as a base. The ends are. It used it coverage. If they were used properly it would give us a different look.

Defensive ends went man on the #2 recievers in Peake game(when they ran the pistol) which left West in a 4-2. It may look like a base 5-2 but its not.

I saw Meeker try to jam the reciever a couple times. That's not the same thing as going into coverage. But maybe I missed a couple. They tried to drop him off against Wynford in the playoffs, but he was lost because he never does it. Not because he doesn't have the ability.

[dreamweaver]

Yea well therein lies the problem of high school sports.

[Westfan]

Yea well therein lies the problem of high school sports.

Again I'm not trying to argue about it. But do you think our pass coverage scheme is good based on the results of Chillicothe, Minford, and Valley?

[smack]

I'll take West in this one. Waverly is 1-6 for a reason. But I think it will be a close game either way since its at Waverly.

thats funny. you picked waverly to win in the pick' em contest.

[dreamweaver]

Siderman, I didnt see all those games, but the ones I did, it came down to blown coverages. Looked like to me the weakness is the overtop help because safteys bite too early.

[noles_fan]

Siderman, I didnt see all those games, but the ones I did, it came down to blown coverages. Looked like to me the weakness is the overtop help because safteys bite too early.

The safteys dont have to bite to early when they are only 8 yards off the ball. When LB's line up generally from 3-5 yards off the ball it's safe to say 8 for a safty is a bit to close. There is no way for a safty who is linedup 8 yds off the ball and inside the defensive end to help out a corner who is covering a WR who is lined up on the numbers it is imposible. And when they did give Valley a 1 safty look by walking up a safty they played him over the center which was lined up on the hash. You have to split the difference between the 2 widest recievers, that is tthe only way it can work. The 5-2 is out dated, there are very few instances where you will see any college team in a 5-2 what you are seeing is a 4-3 with a LB or SS walked up to blitz or stunt. You cant cover the spread with a traditional 5-2.

[urban buck]

You guys need to coach in the NFL not high school!lol

[nutronron2012]

Calpreps is projecting West 21-19. I disagree

[4thgoal]

After watching Waverly last week, I think they would be better off leaning more toward being a pass oriented team. They tried numerous times to run the ball against Burg with little to no success. When your best offensive player is a good QB, let him throw the ball!

[dreamweaver]

Siderman and Noles, this is exactly why I usually avoid discussing x an o's on here. Yes, some of what you both say is valid. I disagree with both of you regarding the 5-2. We can agree to disagree. The thing is, I have held alot of conversations in my day about offenses defenses etc. Bottom line-alot of us can argue x and o's forever and sound great doing it. It is quite another thing to work with actual programs and players. There are multiple factors to take into account in real situations. The speed of your players in the secondary is a factor for example. I don't have time to write down all I think and don't really care to. So I will leave it at that.

[urban buck]

I agree with weaver. Defensive schemes are important but if defenders tackle well, fly to the ball, read their keys properly, and take good pursuit angles, you will have a good defense, no matter the scheme.

[Westfan]

I agree. I like talking football. But when you do, others take it as complaining.

Offense or defense comes down to personnel for sure. But you have to adjust your scheme to fit your talent. This isn't college, so you have to go with what you have. Coach T acknowledged this a few weeks ago when he said we were gonna go more toward a read option team because that is what our talent is dictatating. We aren't a big team this year and probably won't for the forseable future with what we have coming up. So a change from 3 yards and a cloud of dust will have to change or the losses will continue against the better teams. But just like the offense, the defense will have to change also.

[SiderGuy12]

The 5-2 would work just fine if the kids could properly read their keys. It seems to me like that is the problem. First td for valley last week was not because of the safeties being too shallow, it was the fact that they both ran up to stop the run. Then you have Irwin trying to make up for those mistakes when it wasn't even his man to cover. West is young and it is the first Time that a lot of these boys have seen varsity play. I would not blame last weeks loss on the coaches..

[usctrojans1]

Our defense is decent against the run we couldn't cover the kid from wheelersburg #3, I don't know if west has anyone that quick. If our line gives trevon some time we should be fine.