To schedule up or to schedule to win,,,,,

[2trap_4ever]

Man I didn't realize my question would bring out the fire in some people. Well, let me put in my opinions. First off, Columbus is Central Ohio not Southeastern Ohio, it isn't a matter of opinion it is a matter of where they are on a map, the only reason they are placed with southeastern Ohio in football divisions is due to the grand wisdom of the OHSAA (need I say more). But since we are talking about scheduling and southeastern Ohio traveling we can flip the topic because it is a two way street, we can try to schedule teams from Columbus, Cincinnati, or anywhere but if they are not willing to travel to southeastern Ohio (and I am in Coal Grove so I know I am in southeastern Ohio) then it is not worth our trouble to travel to them. I have talked to people from Columbus and they truly do not like traveling 23 south, esp. past Chillicothe. I take offense to the scheduling out of state to get games because I look at Coal Grove last year, we scheduled Pike County Central Ky. and had them on our schedule, well it was about this time last year when they decided they wanted to play another team in Kentucky and dropped us, was that fair, no but we dealt with it and had an open date. I truly do not like scheduling out of state, but to bring up going to Penn. isn't equal to southern Ohio when we have Kentucky and West Virginia, not meaning no disrespect but the top teams in both those state could not handle to top teams in Penn.

We (as in southeastern Ohio) schedule what we can, it is up to the rest of the state to want to travel to us if they want us going to them, and I would have to believe schools in Northeastern Ohio are the same way.

[2trap_4ever]

Now that the season is heading in to its final weeks I thought I would re-visit this topic, I think for my Coal Grove Hornets scheduling up has not worked well, but that is the down side to it, if you schedule hard teams you take a chance of losing. What does everyone think of this topic now that you have been able to see most of you teams season play out.

[dragonsfan24]

I still agree with the folks who say you have to schedule a balance.

If Fairland played their normal OOC schedule from when I was in HS of West, Meigs, Minford, Tolsia (WV), and Winfield (WV) let's say we beat everyone except Minford and went into conference play 4-1, with our conference having a down year we would probably be 8-2/9-1 at the end of the season and sitting at home in either the 10 or 11 spot because of our region. But even though we were 2-3 going into conference play because we were playing Gallia Academy, Wheelersburg, and Athens, even though we lost to those teams, it still gave us a boost in points and as a 2-3 team were still in playoff contention in our region, and now will potentially finish 7-3 and be either a 5 or 6 seed.

So even though there are folks in the community (who probably don't understand how the playoff system works) spitting venom about "this new coach aint that great" what they don't understand is 1) none of our previous teams could have hung with Wheelersburg and Athens the way this team did, and 2) he's got our boys trained to where we will be able to still be competitive in Week 11 and possibly even Week 12 whereas in '03 when we played a mediocre schedule, made playoffs and got blasted in the first round.

[4thgoal]

Football has to be the toughest sport for ADs/coaches to schedule. Your nonconference games need to be a blend of what can make you a better team and challenge you as well as games you have the potential to win to get you into the playoffs. Throw in the fact that you have to be at least a little bit conscious of the divisions of your opponents and it is nearly impossible to make the "perfect schedule"....oh....and you can't forget that your division as well as your opponents has the potential to change every couple of years....lol. On top of all of that, you have your cycles in talent as well as your opponents cycle of talent to contend with that even complicates matters worse. My ideal schedule would include:
- 4 teams you have a fairly high confidence level you can beat
- 4 teams that will be a challenge, but are beatable
- 2 teams that are extremely challenging that you may not be able to beat
This should put you into a situation where you can win 6-9 games and put you in a position where you can make the playoffs and have been challenged.

[Crab's Brother]

I still agree with the folks who say you have to schedule a balance.

If Fairland played their normal OOC schedule from when I was in HS of West, Meigs, Minford, Tolsia (WV), and Winfield (WV) let's say we beat everyone except Minford and went into conference play 4-1, with our conference having a down year we would probably be 8-2/9-1 at the end of the season and sitting at home in either the 10 or 11 spot because of our region. But even though we were 2-3 going into conference play because we were playing Gallia Academy, Wheelersburg, and Athens, even though we lost to those teams, it still gave us a boost in points and as a 2-3 team were still in playoff contention in our region, and now will potentially finish 7-3 and be either a 5 or 6 seed.

So even though there are folks in the community (who probably don't understand how the playoff system works) spitting venom about "this new coach aint that great" what they don't understand is 1) none of our previous teams could have hung with Wheelersburg and Athens the way this team did, and 2) he's got our boys trained to where we will be able to still be competitive in Week 11 and possibly even Week 12 whereas in '03 when we played a mediocre schedule, made playoffs and got blasted in the first round.

I am not sure what you are getting at, but you don't get points for losses.

[Trojan_Pride]

I still agree with the folks who say you have to schedule a balance.

If Fairland played their normal OOC schedule from when I was in HS of West, Meigs, Minford, Tolsia (WV), and Winfield (WV) let's say we beat everyone except Minford and went into conference play 4-1, with our conference having a down year we would probably be 8-2/9-1 at the end of the season and sitting at home in either the 10 or 11 spot because of our region. But even though we were 2-3 going into conference play because we were playing Gallia Academy, Wheelersburg, and Athens, even though we lost to those teams, it still gave us a boost in points and as a 2-3 team were still in playoff contention in our region, and now will potentially finish 7-3 and be either a 5 or 6 seed.

So even though there are folks in the community (who probably don't understand how the playoff system works) spitting venom about "this new coach aint that great" what they don't understand is 1) none of our previous teams could have hung with Wheelersburg and Athens the way this team did, and 2) he's got our boys trained to where we will be able to still be competitive in Week 11 and possibly even Week 12 whereas in '03 when we played a mediocre schedule, made playoffs and got blasted in the first round.

fairland will not see week 12 I am sorry!!

[dragonsfan24]

I am not sure what you are getting at, but you don't get points for losses.

But you get points for SOS do you not? How else could Ironton at 2-4 still be #9 over teams with better records but weaker schedules aside from L2 points?

[4thgoal]

I am not sure what you are getting at, but you don't get points for losses.

But you get points for SOS do you not? How else could Ironton at 2-4 still be #9 over teams with better records but weaker schedules?

No, SOS has nothing to do with the Harbin points system. The division of your opponent is a factor, but only if you win. For example, the 2 teams Ironton has beaten have 6 wins, the 4 teams South Point has beaten have 2 wins total. Thats why Ironton is in front of them...

[dragonsfan24]

fairland will not see week 12 I am sorry!!

If Week 11 is against Hartley or Wheelersburg, probably not, but if we play St. Clairsville or Liberty Union, I could see them being able to pull off the upset.

[Crab's Brother]

There is no SOS component...

Currently a win over D7 Notre Dame is worth .05 more than a win over D3 Desales.

[dreamweaver]

Fairland would not beat Liberty Union. Be a good match up though

[vladimir]

Paladin is correct and why teams down here don't see why this trend does more harm than good is beyond me. People need to put their egos aside and ask themselves why SEO hasn't had a team play for a State Championship since Portsmouth West played Kenton well over a decade ago. NWO Is all cow country, and those boys aren't not any different, but they play a brutal schedule almost all 10-games.

Even the teams winning the regions are usually from Columbus or the upper valley conf with St. Clairsville, Bellaire, Martins Ferry and Liberty Union, not down on the Ohio River. The teams down here on the river just don't get it and it's more important to them to play team within their same county or the next county over just so they can thump their chest. When any of these teams including programs like Wheelersburg and Ironton can't make it past the second round of the playoffs, and the trend has been continuing for over a decade, it's the scheduling that produces the same old tune year afte year.

I know many of you don't like to admit Paladin is correct, but he's right on the money.

[noles_fan]

Paladin is correct and why teams down here don't see why this trend does more harm than good is beyond me. People need to put their egos aside and ask themselves why SEO hasn't had a team play for a State Championship since Portsmouth West played Kenton well over a decade ago. NWO Is all cow country, and those boys aren't not any different, but they play a brutal schedule almost all 10-games.

Even the teams winning the regions are usually from Columbus or the upper valley conf with St. Clairsville, Bellaire, Martins Ferry and Liberty Union, not down on the Ohio River. The teams down here on the river just don't get it and it's more important to them to play team within their same county or the next county over just so they can thump their chest. When any of these teams including programs like Wheelersburg and Ironton can't make it past the second round of the playoffs, and the trend has been continuing for over a decade, it's the scheduling that produces the same old tune year afte year.

I know many of you don't like to admit Paladin is correct, but he's right on the money.

First off don't let Paladin see you put NWO he will have a melt down. Second AD's in this part of the state are hamstrung by a budget so tight they can't look to far to find games. Travel expenses come out of your football budget. Which means the football team has to pay for the bus and driver out of their account. So if you go north to Columbus or west to Cincinnati and cant get them to come here or have to play on a neutral site there is no return financially. There are plenty of programs in this area that would love to travel but you cant run tour program into the red and survive.

[vladimir]

Well NW Ohio football is for real. I work up there a few months out of the year and usually get to catch a game or two. Bryan, Coldwater, Waueson, Patrick Henry, Liberty-Benton, Marion Local, Liberty Center, Kenton, Wapakoneta, etc. would wax most SEO teams with their JVs. Notice they're all public schools and are in each others backyards. One thing they DO NOT have, but we DO HAVE down here is soccer. I surprised no one has ever mentioned soccer as being detrimental to HS football programs, especially in the lower divisions. I know for a fact most schools in NW Ohio DO NOT have soccer as a fall sport.

[Paladin]

Soccer normally doesn't impact D-I or II schools. Sometimes even D-III. But in D-IV thru D - VII, it will by pulling off the limited athletes you have available. Many coaches up here encourage soccer players to try out for kicking and let them play both sports. Otherwise, many soccer players are limited as football athletes, but there are some . NWO has it all over SEO with their schedules. REally good, tough teams. And many of them travel as well, putting to shame the lame excuses SEO uses.

[rxburgfan]

I have to agree with Vladimir. Football does get in the way of soccer. What would the teams in the SE district look like for soccer if they did not have football. Burg, valley, soccer programs would really benefit. Getting out of district would not be out of question most of the time. Time to play futbal and not football...lol

[OVCfan32]

Schedule for rivalries, and try to keep one game free to try one two year home and away series to see what happens. Its that simple people, the best schools have rivalries, they get the middleschoolers interested and wanting to play/go to future games.

[dragonsfan24]

Just for curiosities sake ---

Portsmouth West (5-4) [5:17] W 41-29
Meigs (6-3) [4:14] W 33-20
Gallia Academy (5-4) [4:14] L 38-63
Wheelersburg (8-1) [5:17] L 32-55
Athens (9-0) [3:9] L 46-55
South Point (7-2) [5:17] W 74-43
Chesapeake (1-8) [5:17] W 58-20
Dawson-Bryant (4-5) [6:21] W 44-27
Rock Hill (1-8) [5:17] W 27-0
River Valley (1-8) [5:17] - TBD

This schedule was good enough for us to clinch playoffs at most likely a #6 seeding.
These are our current point values: 14.200 27.000 112.000 100

Suppose Gallia and Athens were replaced with Northwest and Tolsia/Boyd County and those L's were replaced with W's. Given our region do you think the two extra wins would give Fairland the bump into the 4-5 seed range or would we suffer from "South Point Syndrome" and be a 7-2 team who is currently facing the possibility of being 7-3 and sitting at home while a potentially 4-6 Ironton gets the 8 seed and a 5-5 or 6-4 Adena gets the 7?

[Crab's Brother]

Just for curiosities sake ---

Portsmouth West (5-4) [5:17] W 41-29
Meigs (6-3) [4:14] W 33-20
Gallia Academy (5-4) [4:14] L 38-63
Wheelersburg (8-1) [5:17] L 32-55
Athens (9-0) [3:9] L 46-55
South Point (7-2) [5:17] W 74-43
Chesapeake (1-8) [5:17] W 58-20
Dawson-Bryant (4-5) [6:21] W 44-27
Rock Hill (1-8) [5:17] W 27-0
River Valley (1-8) [5:17] - TBD

This schedule was good enough for us to clinch playoffs at most likely a #6 seeding.
These are our current point values: 14.200 27.000 112.000 100

Suppose Gallia and Athens were replaced with Northwest and Tolsia/Boyd County and those L's were replaced with W's. Given our region do you think the two extra wins would give Fairland the bump into the 4-5 seed range or would we suffer from "South Point Syndrome" and be a 7-2 team who is currently facing the possibility of being 7-3 and sitting at home while a potentially 4-6 Ironton gets the 8 seed and a 5-5 or 6-4 Adena gets the 7?

I don't think you know how the point system works. If the two losses were taken off and two wins were added, your point total will go up. For the umpteenth time, there is no strength of schedule in the Harbin Rankings. A loss is worth nothing!

[mray23]

Just for curiosities sake ---

Portsmouth West (5-4) [5:17] W 41-29
Meigs (6-3) [4:14] W 33-20
Gallia Academy (5-4) [4:14] L 38-63
Wheelersburg (8-1) [5:17] L 32-55
Athens (9-0) [3:9] L 46-55
South Point (7-2) [5:17] W 74-43
Chesapeake (1-8) [5:17] W 58-20
Dawson-Bryant (4-5) [6:21] W 44-27
Rock Hill (1-8) [5:17] W 27-0
River Valley (1-8) [5:17] - TBD

This schedule was good enough for us to clinch playoffs at most likely a #6 seeding.
These are our current point values: 14.200 27.000 112.000 100



Suppose Gallia and Athens were replaced with Northwest and Tolsia/Boyd County and those L's were replaced with W's. Given our region do you think the two extra wins would give Fairland the bump into the 4-5 seed range or would we suffer from "South Point Syndrome" and be a 7-2 team who is currently facing the possibility of being 7-3 and sitting at home while a potentially 4-6 Ironton gets the 8 seed and a 5-5 or 6-4 Adena gets the 7?

dragon...here is the site that explains the computer points system http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/rankcalc.htm you can figure out what your pts would be if you replaced those teams.