Bishop Hartley....THE REAL DEAL

[MrFirstTake]

Bishop Hartley took an L tonight to London it was a good game though

[teach1coach2]

Hmmm. CCL done in region 11. Nice!

[MrFirstTake]

Hmmm. CCL done in region 11. Nice!

Kind of crazy right?

[formerfcfan]

I take less issue with the fact Hartley does it, personally. I attribute it to the Diocese of Columbus: they greenlit it. They're behind it.

It was part of the horse trade for DeSales being able to steal half of St Matts and Ready being able to steal half of St. Marys to stem their plummeting enrollments. Prior to that, Pickerington kids were told at St Pius that their only choice was Fisher unless mom or dad were Hartley alumni.

I can tell you for a fact that up until the Diocese recently (officially) amended the attendance zone policy earlier this year, to where Seton was written as now [specifically being] assigned to Hartley, SPX students whose parish was Seton were never told that. K.DeM , principal at SPX for the 00’s {great principal, btw}, wasn’t big on kids missing school for 8th grade visits but marching orders from Cia and heavy-leaning by Winters led to the school (and it’s 40-50% Seton student body) being heavily inundated by Hartley presence & marketing. Father Jim wasn’t huge on writing tuition subsidies for Rt. 37 nor was he a fan of his church being a school fair. We never really knew how many families were ‘in play’ up there and at John 23 because no one told us.

Going forward, it will be interesting to see what happens. The RPRF initiative is probably going to wed the Lancaster parishes together instead of John 23 to St Mark of the Westside. I didn’t think the latter was realistic anyways, but darn if it did that’d be sweet.

Pertinent to the schools… sounds like the plan is to seal the full-freight payers within Seton & John 23 into Hartley for as long and as hard as possible. There had been some latent concerns that if Canal and Pickerington became too radical and too “give us more money, taxpayers” that Catholic school parents would move further east and south into BC, Lancaster and LU districts. That, and if tuition at Hartley rose — coupled with potential “bias” issues among parents — families in that corner of the county would give consideration to FC.

Nevertheless, may the better school win out this next decade on the enrollment fight. We offer a low-cost facsimile, a tremendous sense of community with respect for diversity and a strong Catholic tradition — not unlike BH.

[Giorgio Tsoukalous]

Maybe this thread should've been titled : London....THE REAL DEAL.

[packers80]

Hartley has 3 of the most explosive running backs I've seen in a while. Their speed and agility is second to none. Their QB has good pocket presence and can sling the rock downfield on a dime. Up front they have a solid line with size and they play nasty, will impose their will on anyone.

Defensively they are extremely skilled on the outside with tons of speed. They have three linebackers that fill with authority and will head hunt you, (similar to some SEO teams). Defensive line is the same, big fast and nasty. If you have an average oline they will dominate you.

Key playmaker: Treyvhon Saunders #9 runs a 4.38 40 and has 11 D1 Offers.

I look for them to destroy London this week and then upset Granville. They will run away with region 11. Too much speed to contain.

Not so fast my friend

[Bleeding Red]

Maybe this thread should've been titled : London....THE REAL DEAL.

[greygoose]

Hartley has 3 of the most explosive running backs I've seen in a while. Their speed and agility is second to none. Their QB has good pocket presence and can sling the rock downfield on a dime. Up front they have a solid line with size and they play nasty, will impose their will on anyone.

Defensively they are extremely skilled on the outside with tons of speed. They have three linebackers that fill with authority and will head hunt you, (similar to some SEO teams). Defensive line is the same, big fast and nasty. If you have an average oline they will dominate you.

Key playmaker: Treyvhon Saunders #9 runs a 4.38 40 and has 11 D1 Offers.

I look for them to destroy London this week and then upset Granville. They will run away with region 11. Too much speed to contain.

OH MY...well that turned south REALLY fast for this prediction. I guess all of that speed and D1 offers doesn't mean anything when it's strapped up you walk in between those lines and one team wants it more.

[greygoose]

Maybe this thread should've been titled : London....THE REAL DEAL.

It was this thread that pushed London over the top

[sapientia et veritas]

Clinton Massie got past Hartley more than once. It is possible for a public school without recruiting to beat these teams...but it takes

A solid strength program and good coaching. Play physical in the middle and keep contain, and the Hartley offense is slow and boring and takes 8 minutes to plod out a drive.

London defense failed to fill a gap on first offensive play of game for Hartley TD, but otherwise stayed home and did their job.

On offense, they pushed the Hawks around at will chunking out 3-8 yards on just about every play on 10 minute drives. Couldn't pass for crap but didn't need to.

Hartley coordinators played an awesome game of overthinking everything with the kids absolutely befuddled. The defense was called for one illegal substitution but could have been called for 7 or 8 if the refs weren't so generous about fat guys trying their darndest to run off the field with broken feet and stuff. One 20+ yard London run had Hartley with 9 defenders on the play. Stay in get out no wait stay out get in. So much miscommunication on the sideline, especially on offense with the no wait change it to this no that. Burned up about 4 timeouts just trying to get the chit in line. Fourth and short and OC decides after a long timeout to keep the lets fumble every reverse we've done this season streak intact instead of lining up in a power I and just punching it through.

Hawks only score in second half came after somebody remembered all the sudden that we've had a fairly good balanced offense all season so why not try throwing the ball a little bit.

Cutler did a great job coaching especially with pre-season strength program except for the no class 15 minute go and get your darn rule book out of the end zone maneuver towards the end of the third for which they should have been charged a time out. You walk out to the middle of the field to yell at the refs and you deserve unsportsmanlike or timeout or both. But it did give Hartley coaches the time to remember that the forward pass has been legal since 1906 and we're not terrible at it this year. Five years of evidence with just one regional trophy shows that Hartley is just an over-rated slightly above average D-III playoff contender.

[sapientia et veritas]

Oh and can we please just get a full-time punter? These 15 yard shanks giving away the field position game doesn't work in D-III. The fake punt doesn't work often against decent D-III teams either. Surely there's some kid you can Groom (pun intended) starting in 7th grade to do the job.

[mt1fan]

I stand corrected. After watching Hartley play, I was sold on the fact that they were the team to beat. Unbelievable speed on the edge. Ill take this one on the chin and gladly accept any and all jokes that come my way. That's what makes this fun!!

[Ironman92]

I stand corrected. After watching Hartley play, I was sold on the fact that they were the team to beat. Unbelievable speed on the edge. Ill take this one on the chin and gladly accept any and all jokes that come my way. That's what makes this fun!!

Easy to be fooled a bit when you see such impressive athletes. Very strong region

[sapientia et veritas]

I can tell you for a fact that up until the Diocese recently (officially) amended the attendance zone policy earlier this year, to where Seton was written as now [specifically being] assigned to Hartley, SPX students whose parish was Seton were never told that.

Nieces and nephews from my family were told in late 80s at SPX that Seton was exclusively Fisher territory, so they got sent to Pickerington schools instead - two of them specifically withdrawn for that reason. We assumed the same would be true when we moved there. Father Hawkins said no - Seton kids could go anywhere and that he would happily pay the subsidy.

Father Jim wasn’t huge on writing tuition subsidies for Rt. 37

He wasn't huge on writing them for Zettler either but went along with the deanery concept.

nor was he a fan of his church being a school fair.

Subsidy envelopes and appeal weekend ended when Father Hawkins left. It's largely a PSR community. While volunteering in Portsmouth two different years, other parents including two of the SPY organizers, complained about the presence of Hartley kids. A few SPX families registered at SPX because of the perceived hostility at Seton for Catholic education.

sounds like the plan is to seal the full-freight payers within Seton & John 23 into Hartley for as long and as hard as possible.

I think they just codified what was happening. I don't think there was ever a plan. The Diocese has long practiced a policy of benign neglect and was happy to just let high schools close that couldn't sustain themselves. Hartley itself was on the brink at one point. Hartley spent a ton of money to do heavy marketing in Pickerington to no avail - it didn't change enrollment by even one kid from the area. I don't think they ever spent anything at PJ23. I don't think they could even get a parish representative from there on the advisory board after multiple years of open invitations. I saw a kid in Chuck's gear there a week ago, but have only known one Hartley family there.

There had been some latent concerns that if Canal and Pickerington became too radical and too “give us more money, taxpayers” that Catholic school parents would move further east and south into BC, Lancaster and LU districts. That, and if tuition at Hartley rose — coupled with potential “bias” issues among parents

Bias issues about Hartley's diversity dropped in the last 20 years as Pickerington diversity changed. And the next demographic wave will result in withdrawal from the Catholic school system. I'm certain of that.

families in that corner of the county would give consideration to FC.

Nevertheless, may the better school win out this next decade on the enrollment fight. We offer a low-cost facsimile, a tremendous sense of community with respect for diversity and a strong Catholic tradition — not unlike BH.

It got my uncounted vote 18 years ago when we started looking to the future. I didn't like the trip in the wrong direction, but that was the only negative on my scorecard.

[Raider6309]

Easy to be fooled a bit when you see such impressive athletes. Very strong region

Chardon will likely beat the region 11 champ 49-0

[formerfcfan]

I can tell you for a fact that up until the Diocese recently (officially) amended the attendance zone policy earlier this year, to where Seton was written as now [specifically being] assigned to Hartley, SPX students whose parish was Seton were never told that.

Nieces and nephews from my family were told in late 80s at SPX that Seton was exclusively Fisher territory, so they got sent to Pickerington schools instead - two of them specifically withdrawn for that reason. We assumed the same would be true when we moved there. Father Hawkins said no - Seton kids could go anywhere and that he would happily pay the subsidy.

Interesting. Thanks for speaking to it.

And the next demographic wave will result in withdrawal from the Catholic school system. I'm certain of that.

Interesting point. However, although this next d/w likely isn't friendly toward the Catholic schools I suspect there will be some 'reactionary' interest into the Catholic school system.

It got my uncounted vote 18 years ago when we started looking to the future. I didn't like the trip in the wrong direction, but that was the only negative on my scorecard.

I would've enjoyed you being on our team, here online! We have good people. Crazy to think what could have been. 4-6 instead of multiple states.

BTW... Hawkins -> Witheman {sp? Defrocked} -> Fairchild/Klima, yeah?

[Fast2021]

Clinton Massie got past Hartley more than once. It is possible for a public school without recruiting to beat these teams...but it takes

A solid strength program and good coaching. Play physical in the middle and keep contain, and the Hartley offense is slow and boring and takes 8 minutes to plod out a drive.

London defense failed to fill a gap on first offensive play of game for Hartley TD, but otherwise stayed home and did their job.

On offense, they pushed the Hawks around at will chunking out 3-8 yards on just about every play on 10 minute drives. Couldn't pass for crap but didn't need to.

Hartley coordinators played an awesome game of overthinking everything with the kids absolutely befuddled. The defense was called for one illegal substitution but could have been called for 7 or 8 if the refs weren't so generous about fat guys trying their darndest to run off the field with broken feet and stuff. One 20+ yard London run had Hartley with 9 defenders on the play. Stay in get out no wait stay out get in. So much miscommunication on the sideline, especially on offense with the no wait change it to this no that. Burned up about 4 timeouts just trying to get the chit in line. Fourth and short and OC decides after a long timeout to keep the lets fumble every reverse we've done this season streak intact instead of lining up in a power I and just punching it through.

Hawks only score in second half came after somebody remembered all the sudden that we've had a fairly good balanced offense all season so why not try throwing the ball a little bit.

Cutler did a great job coaching especially with pre-season strength program except for the no class 15 minute go and get your darn rule book out of the end zone maneuver towards the end of the third for which they should have been charged a time out. You walk out to the middle of the field to yell at the refs and you deserve unsportsmanlike or timeout or both. But it did give Hartley coaches the time to remember that the forward pass has been legal since 1906 and we're not terrible at it this year. Five years of evidence with just one regional trophy shows that Hartley is just an over-rated slightly above average D-III playoff contender.

Wow this was a different take. I thought this was a pretty even game. London did a great job of controlling the football. They did want Hartley usually does to other teams. You must be a parent because I hear the same crap every game in the stands. “They need to throw the ball” even if the hawks are up by 3 scores. Here’s a quick quiz for you. How many times did they throw the ball? Here I’ll tell you 16 times. How many runs? Here let me tell you 16. That’s right they ran 32 total plays. So I’m not sure if you are just a mad father or you just don’t know football, but either way that sounds “balanced” to me. I know but they didn’t win so I heard someone say somewhere the hawks need to be more balanced on offense so I thought I’d act like I knew football. Give me a break. This Hartley team was good London was just better. When you talk crap it takes away from how hard the kids played and what London achieved. Do better or please just stop posting about things you don’t know about

[Hawkcaulker9]

[/quote]

Wow this was a different take. I thought this was a pretty even game. London did a great job of controlling the football. They did want Hartley usually does to other teams. You must be a parent because I hear the same crap every game in the stands. “They need to throw the ball” even if the hawks are up by 3 scores. Here’s a quick quiz for you. How many times did they throw the ball? Here I’ll tell you 16 times. How many runs? Here let me tell you 16. That’s right they ran 32 total plays. So I’m not sure if you are just a mad father or you just don’t know football, but either way that sounds “balanced” to me. I know but they didn’t win so I heard someone say somewhere the hawks need to be more balanced on offense so I thought I’d act like I knew football. Give me a break. This Hartley team was good London was just better. When you talk crap it takes away from how hard the kids played and what London achieved. Do better or please just stop posting about things you don’t know about
[/quote]
So I’m not sure if you know what you’re talking about,
Not once in his post did he try and diminish what the kids have accomplished or bash any of the kids on either team. If you knew anything about the guy who posted, you would know that A) he’s probably forgotten more about football than you will ever know. B) his posts are insightful and usually spot on. He is not some regurgitating lemming. The thing that I think you missed in his post was the fact that Hartley’s coaches seemed to be out of sorts with the game plan on both sides of the ball which in fact put the kids in bad positions to succeed. This is nothing new for people that are familiar with Hartley. He was also commenting on the fact that OC Sawyer sometimes becomes very predictable (run on running downs, pass on passing downs)
Most of the time the Hawks execution overcomes known tendencies. When it doesn’t he sometimes is not willing to change things up. Yes London was the better team that night, we’ll take the L move on to hoops and think about how to get ready for next season when D4 schools will have to worry about our little Central OH all star team.

[sapientia et veritas]

Wow this was a different take. I thought this was a pretty even game. London did a great job of controlling the football. They did want Hartley usually does to other teams. You must be a parent because I hear the same crap every game in the stands. “They need to throw the ball” even if the hawks are up by 3 scores. Here’s a quick quiz for you. How many times did they throw the ball? Here I’ll tell you 16 times. How many runs? Here let me tell you 16. That’s right they ran 32 total plays. So I’m not sure if you are just a mad father or you just don’t know football, but either way that sounds “balanced” to me. I know but they didn’t win so I heard someone say somewhere the hawks need to be more balanced on offense so I thought I’d act like I knew football. Give me a break. This Hartley team was good London was just better. When you talk crap it takes away from how hard the kids played and what London achieved. Do better or please just stop posting about things you don’t know about

It was an even game. London was only better on the scoreboard.

I've been a fan of Hartley for 35+ years, and I've been attending games regularly since 2004 when we committed to sending our girls there. I've been to games in Proctorville, Spencerville, Toledo, North Canton, Kilbourne, Koebel Rd, Columbus Grove, Louisville, Fort Loramie, The Tank, Fishers IN, Youngstown, Wheelersburg, you name it. My favorite game ever was the Earl White clinic in the pouring rain back in 2009. The Hartley resurgence was built in that game. I went to the Massie game in 2012 with a torn MCL and to the Canton CC game in Zanesville in 2014 in a boot for a broken toe. Last kid graduated 8 years ago. I graduated 5 years ago, lol.

I'm a yuuuuuge fan of Burchfield and Sawyer, and I only get mad at Chris at the same moments and for the same reasons that Brad gets mad at Chris. Brad has been to my house. I own zero championship rings, but I did get to sit in the VIP box in 2015 which was awesome. I respect what Brad and Chris and coaches have done for the school, team, and community, and I don't want them going anywhere.

I really do prefer the running game. I'm happy for this season's balanced offense, but I'd be happy to see a whole season of nothing but power I, traps, counters, sweeps, and draws. I loved all the short side sweeps in 2015 in the rain against Snively's Falcons. Nothing makes me happier than complex blocking schemes executed perfectly by the unheralded slobs in their patriotic socks.

I've been yelling at parents for crap like "throw the ball" and "just kick it" and everything else that the newbies moan about every season since 2011. My typical cheer to shut them up is the old Mr Geyer cheer - You Have No Rings clap clap clap-clap-clap. For 10 years when John or Kevin in the press box missed who got the tackle, I gave them the name/number. I tell parents of bench warming kids who whine about vouchers that no they actually aren't happening. And I know that. For certain.

I respect what Kyle has done at London. In 2016, I sat with his parents for the entire Hartley/Alter game, and we bemoaned the state of soft modern yuppie football especially at Joel's new school and compared it to the toughness instilled in the Barry Blackstone era when and where the boys were growing up. We cheered Domsitz/Sawyer power running possession ball. We, even Mom Cutler, agreed on what needed to be done at both London and UA and Kyle has done it. I said so when I saw them again twice in 2019 - once on Zettler after the Hawks had narrowly escaped a loss to London and again in London for the TM game. Joel's "wellness" and "hazing" crap was total crap. Rich kids don't like lifting at 6. Plain and simple. Kyle has overcome that initial resistance down south, and it shows on the field. I wish them nothing but the best going forward - especially if they get to face R9.

But I'm objective. Tough crap. I see a dude in a dress, and I say it's a dude in a dress. I call it like it is. I'll die the last of the unwoke, I suppose. All things being equal, I'd prefer little January getting stuffed on a fake to Woody shanking it. Meat and potatoes would have won this game, and, over a beer, Sawyer would probably agree. The passing drive was good for momentum swing, but 4th and 1 - punch them in the face; not a reverse. All the timeout plays this season - Brad should have override power. Give us old reliable. 31 up front, 12 in middle, 7 in the back. Power or offset. Hit 'em in the goolies and hope for the best.

[Fast2021]

Wow this was a different take. I thought this was a pretty even game. London did a great job of controlling the football. They did want Hartley usually does to other teams. You must be a parent because I hear the same crap every game in the stands. “They need to throw the ball” even if the hawks are up by 3 scores. Here’s a quick quiz for you. How many times did they throw the ball? Here I’ll tell you 16 times. How many runs? Here let me tell you 16. That’s right they ran 32 total plays. So I’m not sure if you are just a mad father or you just don’t know football, but either way that sounds “balanced” to me. I know but they didn’t win so I heard someone say somewhere the hawks need to be more balanced on offense so I thought I’d act like I knew football. Give me a break. This Hartley team was good London was just better. When you talk crap it takes away from how hard the kids played and what London achieved. Do better or please just stop posting about things you don’t know about
[/quote]
So I’m not sure if you know what you’re talking about,
Not once in his post did he try and diminish what the kids have accomplished or bash any of the kids on either team. If you knew anything about the guy who posted, you would know that A) he’s probably forgotten more about football than you will ever know. B) his posts are insightful and usually spot on. He is not some regurgitating lemming. The thing that I think you missed in his post was the fact that Hartley’s coaches seemed to be out of sorts with the game plan on both sides of the ball which in fact put the kids in bad positions to succeed. This is nothing new for people that are familiar with Hartley. He was also commenting on the fact that OC Sawyer sometimes becomes very predictable (run on running downs, pass on passing downs)
Most of the time the Hawks execution overcomes known tendencies. When it doesn’t he sometimes is not willing to change things up. Yes London was the better team that night, we’ll take the L move on to hoops and think about how to get ready for next season when D4 schools will have to worry about our little Central OH all star team.
[/quote]

I have no knowledge (now I do I read the post below) of sapientia et veritas. I was just reading his post and I could not agree with what he observed. There are still a number of things I think he and you are confused about.

1) He made a comment that "did give Hartley coaches the time to remember that the forward pass has been legal since 1906 and we're not terrible at it this year." Not sure how you read this but to the common person this sounds like that they need was to throw the ball more. I pointed out that Hartley threw the ball the same amount of times they ran the ball. I mean the exact number

2) You said that the play calling is predictable. However sapientia was upset that the hawks ran a reverse on a short yardage play. So which is it? Are they are predictable or they should've run it on a run down?

3) sapienta said that the first score the hawks had was because London didn't fill the correct gap. The first score was a pass play

4) Sapienta said the hawks ran a reverse on 4-1. This too is incorrect. It was 3rd and short. I also thought this wasn't a good call but maybe the coaches had already decided that they were going for it on 4th down so maybe take a shot. Who knows but at least know the down and distance

My point is that there are a million different things that the coaching staff knows that you and I don't. I do know a couple of things about Hartley. I no longer coach but I did get to coach against this coaching staff twice. It didn't go very well for us. I can tell you a couple of things about preparing to play Hartley. It's almost impossible. They do so many little things that frustrate you as a coach. They run about 30 different coverages, have about 100 different fakes in the kicking game, and on offense they run so many formations that you will drive yourself crazy if you try to chart them all, let alone try to prepare for the numerous blocking schemes. They always do a good job of getting their best kids they ball and on defense they always have their kids lined up correctly. I can tell you as a coach these things are the most important. I know you guys are spoiled at Hartley and I guess that's ok. Understand you don't have the success Burch has had if you are not well coached.
Lastly, I got the opportunity to go to a number of games this year. (Canal, all the CCL games and both play-off games) I know it may have looked like the same old same old to most people, but I can tell you the coaching staff did a lot of things this year that gave teams ALOT of trouble. I hope you guys can give Burch another shot.