Ironton and Marion Local coaching staffs collab

[greygoose]

Hats off to Marion Local for allowing Ironton to try and come up and learn. What they really need to do is give Marion Local their film and have their coaches break down the good and the bad of what Ironton does. Marion Local is just on another playing level year after year with each new group that comes through they continue that success and they do it from the ground up. They work their way up to be dominate on the LOS they don't care about those cute WRs that Ironton has or brings in just like Kirkland and South Range last year they're going to beat your butt at the LOS. Ironton has to find a way to coach that aspect of the game better until they do it doesn't matter, ppl can praise Pendleton for what he's done but ultimately it's getting to where he's turned things around and until proven otherwise we've seen the ceiling. My hats off to them for all the work they put in to get players noticed, but when it comes to talking state title they're a long ways away from that and honestly I don't know that I see one on the horizon. Maybe they can get some other teams to change divisions and luck out.

ML accomplishes this dominance without kids who will be playing at the next level. Both IHS and Burg have as good or better talent.

Whatever ML is doing to dominate the LOS, I wish Burg coaches would make the trip to learn something.

Yep same with kirtland as well, funny part is so many any this area think the MAC not having soccer helps as well. Let’s be honest though the guys on the LOS aren’t being lost to soccer in this area. It’s simply just a better brand of football and to even think it can be copied and brought to this area is a very tough notion. The MAC all play that tough hard nosed style those kids have seen it and been apart of it since junior high. We simply don’t have the teams in this area that can replicate it week in and week out. Each of those teams are winning with defense, Marion Local at one point went 3 straight years without allowing a point in the state championship game that’s insane.

[Baldeagle]

Ironton could have saved some gas money and visited the Eagle staff. Obviously we know about deep playoff runs than they do.

[callie15]

List the former Ironton players now playing at the next level. [ Playing] not sitting.

[artisgilmore]

Want to improve? Have philosophical and technical talks with Coach Lutz before,during and after each season.

[noreply66]

List the former Ironton players now playing at the next level. [ Playing] not sitting.

List any SEO former player that is playing or even sitting?

[greygoose]

List the former Ironton players now playing at the next level. [ Playing] not sitting.

If you’re wanting to poke at playing time. A list I’d be more interested in seeing is how many are getting a free education?? That interest me more than playing time, seems like some think not playing takes away from what that player has earned and you’re wrong. Education education, there’s a huge number of players on college rosters that won’t ever see playing.

[Tri_State79]

List the former Ironton players now playing at the next level. [ Playing] not sitting.

If you’re wanting to poke at playing time. A list I’d be more interested in seeing is how many are getting a free education?? That interest me more than playing time, seems like some think not playing takes away from what that player has earned and you’re wrong. Education education, there’s a huge number of players on college rosters that won’t ever see playing.

Bingo. It's about creating opportunities.

[RBH23]

Hats off to Marion Local for allowing Ironton to try and come up and learn. What they really need to do is give Marion Local their film and have their coaches break down the good and the bad of what Ironton does. Marion Local is just on another playing level year after year with each new group that comes through they continue that success and they do it from the ground up. They work their way up to be dominate on the LOS they don't care about those cute WRs that Ironton has or brings in just like Kirkland and South Range last year they're going to beat your butt at the LOS. Ironton has to find a way to coach that aspect of the game better until they do it doesn't matter, ppl can praise Pendleton for what he's done but ultimately it's getting to where he's turned things around and until proven otherwise we've seen the ceiling. My hats off to them for all the work they put in to get players noticed, but when it comes to talking state title they're a long ways away from that and honestly I don't know that I see one on the horizon. Maybe they can get some other teams to change divisions and luck out.

ML accomplishes this dominance without kids who will be playing at the next level. Both IHS and Burg have as good or better talent.

Whatever ML is doing to dominate the LOS, I wish Burg coaches would make the trip to learn something.

Yep same with kirtland as well, funny part is so many any this area think the MAC not having soccer helps as well. Let’s be honest though the guys on the LOS aren’t being lost to soccer in this area. It’s simply just a better brand of football and to even think it can be copied and brought to this area is a very tough notion. The MAC all play that tough hard nosed style those kids have seen it and been apart of it since junior high. We simply don’t have the teams in this area that can replicate it week in and week out. Each of those teams are winning with defense, Marion Local at one point went 3 straight years without allowing a point in the state championship game that’s insane.

Burg had that back in the Ed Miller/Larry Hall days. Had some great battles with Versailles in the 80’s. Burg has simply changed since then, especially on the O side. D plays very similar which makes sense given that the coordinators played for Miller and Hall. But the O is radically different. Gotten away from smash mouth football, and it shows on the field.

[Tri_State79]

ML accomplishes this dominance without kids who will be playing at the next level. Both IHS and Burg have as good or better talent.

Whatever ML is doing to dominate the LOS, I wish Burg coaches would make the trip to learn something.

Yep same with kirtland as well, funny part is so many any this area think the MAC not having soccer helps as well. Let’s be honest though the guys on the LOS aren’t being lost to soccer in this area. It’s simply just a better brand of football and to even think it can be copied and brought to this area is a very tough notion. The MAC all play that tough hard nosed style those kids have seen it and been apart of it since junior high. We simply don’t have the teams in this area that can replicate it week in and week out. Each of those teams are winning with defense, Marion Local at one point went 3 straight years without allowing a point in the state championship game that’s insane.

Burg had that back in the Ed Miller/Larry Hall days. Had some great battles with Versailles in the 80’s. Burg has simply changed since then, especially on the O side. D plays very similar which makes sense given that the coordinators played for Miller and Hall. But the O is radically different. Gotten away from smash mouth football, and it shows on the field.

Culture, Culture, Culture.

The MAC kids don't have adults who coddle them and collapse any time they are scrutinized like seo kids. The MAC kids don't have parents consumed with what their neighbors are doing. The MAC kids have been conditioned to focus on what they are trying to do.

MAC adults create winners.
Seo adults create excuse makers.

[Tri_State79]

Yep same with kirtland as well, funny part is so many any this area think the MAC not having soccer helps as well. Let’s be honest though the guys on the LOS aren’t being lost to soccer in this area. It’s simply just a better brand of football and to even think it can be copied and brought to this area is a very tough notion. The MAC all play that tough hard nosed style those kids have seen it and been apart of it since junior high. We simply don’t have the teams in this area that can replicate it week in and week out. Each of those teams are winning with defense, Marion Local at one point went 3 straight years without allowing a point in the state championship game that’s insane.

Burg had that back in the Ed Miller/Larry Hall days. Had some great battles with Versailles in the 80’s. Burg has simply changed since then, especially on the O side. D plays very similar which makes sense given that the coordinators played for Miller and Hall. But the O is radically different. Gotten away from smash mouth football, and it shows on the field.

Culture, Culture, Culture.

The MAC kids don't have adults who coddle them and collapse any time they are scrutinized like seo kids. The MAC kids don't have parents consumed with what their neighbors are doing. The MAC kids have been conditioned to focus on what they are trying to do.

MAC adults create winners.
Seo adults create excuse makers.

When Ironton and Burg fail the adults make excuses.

"At least we did xyz. How DARE our kids be held to a higher standard."

The MAC programs do not think this way. The standard IS THE STANDARD and anything less means you did NOT meet the standard. Cut and dry.

The larger the area = the less consideration you get. The scrutiny level is higher and so is the expectation level.
Seo has developed a culture over time of being runner ups and making excuses as to why that is enough and it shows in everything in southeast Ohio. Every aspect of life. That's why on seops if you make a football critique of lil Jimmy and Johnny, these people COLLAPSE. Seo has SOFT Culture.

It's more than x's and o's.

It's lifestyle. It's culture. It's standards and expectations.

Lifestyle = why does southeast Ohio have such a high rate of obesity? Culture and LIFESTYLE.

Addiction = CULTURE AND LIFESTYLE.

Poverty = CULTURE AND LIFESTYLE.

I was very fortunate. I was born in Ironton and set to be a legacy talent at Ironton High. My father gained a better opportunity and at a young age we relocated to Pittsburgh and I played ball at a local private school in the Pittsburgh area. That move CHANGED how I was conditioned and molded as a young man. And then as a father I relocated my kids and myself to Northern Virginia. Had I stayed in seo I never ever would have aspired as high as I did. I wouldn't have had that condition. Had I raised my kids in seo at seo schools it's likely my daughter would not be in med school. Here in Nova at her school, the questions wasn't "are you going to college?" The only question was WHERE are you going. Additionally I am healthier than most of my old acquaintances back in seo. It's unfortunate but true.

Culture and lifestyle are EVERYTHING.

[RBH23]

Burg had that back in the Ed Miller/Larry Hall days. Had some great battles with Versailles in the 80’s. Burg has simply changed since then, especially on the O side. D plays very similar which makes sense given that the coordinators played for Miller and Hall. But the O is radically different. Gotten away from smash mouth football, and it shows on the field.

Culture, Culture, Culture.

The MAC kids don't have adults who coddle them and collapse any time they are scrutinized like seo kids. The MAC kids don't have parents consumed with what their neighbors are doing. The MAC kids have been conditioned to focus on what they are trying to do.

MAC adults create winners.
Seo adults create excuse makers.

When Ironton and Burg fail the adults make excuses.

"At least we did xyz. How DARE our kids be held to a higher standard."

The MAC programs do not think this way. The standard IS THE STANDARD and anything less means you did NOT meet the standard. Cut and dry.

The larger the area = the less consideration you get. The scrutiny level is higher and so is the expectation level.
Seo has developed a culture over time of being runner ups and making excuses as to why that is enough and it shows in everything in southeast Ohio. Every aspect of life. That's why on seops if you make a football critique of lil Jimmy and Johnny, these people COLLAPSE.

Let’s assume what you say is true, then how do you explain the Lutz/Miller years? How do you explain Burg baseball under Estep? How do you explain Burg softball now?

[Tri_State79]

Culture, Culture, Culture.

The MAC kids don't have adults who coddle them and collapse any time they are scrutinized like seo kids. The MAC kids don't have parents consumed with what their neighbors are doing. The MAC kids have been conditioned to focus on what they are trying to do.

MAC adults create winners.
Seo adults create excuse makers.

When Ironton and Burg fail the adults make excuses.

"At least we did xyz. How DARE our kids be held to a higher standard."

The MAC programs do not think this way. The standard IS THE STANDARD and anything less means you did NOT meet the standard. Cut and dry.

The larger the area = the less consideration you get. The scrutiny level is higher and so is the expectation level.
Seo has developed a culture over time of being runner ups and making excuses as to why that is enough and it shows in everything in southeast Ohio. Every aspect of life. That's why on seops if you make a football critique of lil Jimmy and Johnny, these people COLLAPSE.

Let’s assume what you say is true, then how do you explain the Lutz/Miller years? How do you explain Burg baseball under Estep? How do you explain Burg softball now?

It's more than x's and o's.

It's lifestyle. It's culture. It's standards and expectations.

Lifestyle = why does southeast Ohio have such a high rate of obesity? Culture and LIFESTYLE.

Addiction = CULTURE AND LIFESTYLE.

Poverty = CULTURE AND LIFESTYLE.

I was very fortunate. I was born in Ironton and set to be a legacy talent at Ironton High. My father gained a better opportunity and at a young age we relocated to Pittsburgh and I played ball at a local private school in the Pittsburgh area. That move CHANGED how I was conditioned and molded as a young man. And then as a father I relocated my kids and myself to Northern Virginia. Had I stayed in seo I never ever would have aspired as high as I did. I wouldn't have had that condition. Had I raised my kids in seo at seo schools it's likely my daughter would not be in med school. Here in Nova at her school, the questions wasn't "are you going to college?" The only question was WHERE are you going. Additionally I am healthier than most of my old acquaintances back in seo. It's unfortunate but true.

Culture and lifestyle are EVERYTHING.

Everything.

[RBH23]

When Ironton and Burg fail the adults make excuses.

"At least we did xyz. How DARE our kids be held to a higher standard."

The MAC programs do not think this way. The standard IS THE STANDARD and anything less means you did NOT meet the standard. Cut and dry.

The larger the area = the less consideration you get. The scrutiny level is higher and so is the expectation level.
Seo has developed a culture over time of being runner ups and making excuses as to why that is enough and it shows in everything in southeast Ohio. Every aspect of life. That's why on seops if you make a football critique of lil Jimmy and Johnny, these people COLLAPSE.

Let’s assume what you say is true, then how do you explain the Lutz/Miller years? How do you explain Burg baseball under Estep? How do you explain Burg softball now?

It's more than x's and o's.

It's lifestyle. It's culture. It's standards and expectations.

Lifestyle = why does southeast Ohio have such a high rate of obesity? Culture and LIFESTYLE.

Addiction = CULTURE AND LIFESTYLE.

Poverty = CULTURE AND LIFESTYLE.

I was very fortunate. I was born in Ironton and set to be a legacy talent at Ironton High. My father gained a better opportunity and at a young age we relocated to Pittsburgh and I played ball at a local private school in the Pittsburgh area. That move CHANGED how I was conditioned and molded as a young man. And then as a father I relocated my kids and myself to Northern Virginia. Had I stayed in seo I never ever would have aspired as high as I did. I wouldn't have had that condition. Had I raised my kids in seo at seo schools it's likely my daughter would not be in med school. Here in Nova at her school, the questions wasn't "are you going to college?" The only question was WHERE are you going. Additionally I am healthier than most of my old acquaintances back in seo. It's unfortunate but true.

Culture and lifestyle are EVERYTHING.

Everything.

I get what you are saying, but how do you explain the recent successes?

[Tri_State79]

Let’s assume what you say is true, then how do you explain the Lutz/Miller years? How do you explain Burg baseball under Estep? How do you explain Burg softball now?

It's more than x's and o's.

It's lifestyle. It's culture. It's standards and expectations.

Lifestyle = why does southeast Ohio have such a high rate of obesity? Culture and LIFESTYLE.

Addiction = CULTURE AND LIFESTYLE.

Poverty = CULTURE AND LIFESTYLE.

I was very fortunate. I was born in Ironton and set to be a legacy talent at Ironton High. My father gained a better opportunity and at a young age we relocated to Pittsburgh and I played ball at a local private school in the Pittsburgh area. That move CHANGED how I was conditioned and molded as a young man. And then as a father I relocated my kids and myself to Northern Virginia. Had I stayed in seo I never ever would have aspired as high as I did. I wouldn't have had that condition. Had I raised my kids in seo at seo schools it's likely my daughter would not be in med school. Here in Nova at her school, the questions wasn't "are you going to college?" The only question was WHERE are you going. Additionally I am healthier than most of my old acquaintances back in seo. It's unfortunate but true.

Culture and lifestyle are EVERYTHING.

Everything.

I get what you are saying, but how do you explain the recent successes?

That's a really good point. I'd say seo have periods of success but the long term consistency overall isn't the same. I think culture plays a big part in that.

[Tri_State79]

Culture, Culture, Culture.

The MAC kids don't have adults who coddle them and collapse any time they are scrutinized like seo kids. The MAC kids don't have parents consumed with what their neighbors are doing. The MAC kids have been conditioned to focus on what they are trying to do.

MAC adults create winners.
Seo adults create excuse makers.

When Ironton and Burg fail the adults make excuses.

"At least we did xyz. How DARE our kids be held to a higher standard."

The MAC programs do not think this way. The standard IS THE STANDARD and anything less means you did NOT meet the standard. Cut and dry.

The larger the area = the less consideration you get. The scrutiny level is higher and so is the expectation level.
Seo has developed a culture over time of being runner ups and making excuses as to why that is enough and it shows in everything in southeast Ohio. Every aspect of life. That's why on seops if you make a football critique of lil Jimmy and Johnny, these people COLLAPSE.

Let’s assume what you say is true, then how do you explain the Lutz/Miller years? How do you explain Burg baseball under Estep? How do you explain Burg softball now?

Kids routinely aspire per what they perceive as possible for themselves. That is 100 cultivated. Seo adults sorta place a ceiling on kids per their perception of what is possible for themselves and when asked for MORE by the outside world they get offended. You see it on this site daily.

[Tri_State79]

The key is to CHANGE the culture. To condition kids to NOT BE SATISFIED.

The ironton/Burg mantra of "at least we made the playoffs look how many schools didnt." Does NOT cultivate kids who outkick their coverage.

[Tri_State79]

The key is to CHANGE the culture. To condition kids to NOT BE SATISFIED.

The ironton/Burg mantra of "at least we made the playoffs look how many schools didnt." Does NOT cultivate kids who outkick their coverage.

Caveat this acknowledging there will be singular exceptions to every rule. However exceptions are NOT a standard.

[Tri_State79]

The key is to CHANGE the culture. To condition kids to NOT BE SATISFIED.

The ironton/Burg mantra of "at least we made the playoffs look how many schools didnt." Does NOT cultivate kids who outkick their coverage.

Caveat this acknowledging there will be singular exceptions to every rule. However exceptions are NOT a standard.

One of the very 1st things I was told when I moved to Nova and started working inside the beltway was this: "its a rat race here and it sucks. But NOBODY is going to hand you a tissue.: I held onto that notion.

Same applies. "At least we made the playoffs look how many didnt." Is a big tissue for a cry baby culture.
Same applied for my kids here. The similarity is sorta like a high school teacher vs a college professor. A High school teacher will helicopter a kid and keep at him about fulfilling his responsibilities as a student.

A college prof gives you the syllabus at the beginning of the semester and it's on you. They don't G.A.F. You get it or don't. It's your life and your dime.

[Tri_State79]

The key is to CHANGE the culture. To condition kids to NOT BE SATISFIED.

The ironton/Burg mantra of "at least we made the playoffs look how many schools didnt." Does NOT cultivate kids who outkick their coverage.

That said, Idk how you begin to cultivate that culture when mom and dad either work at Walmart or are in rehab. Smh. Kids need examples of the result of aspiring beyond limitations. It's a sad reality and I still love people back home in seo and really wish better for them.

[RBH23]

The key is to CHANGE the culture. To condition kids to NOT BE SATISFIED.

The ironton/Burg mantra of "at least we made the playoffs look how many schools didnt." Does NOT cultivate kids who outkick their coverage.

That said, Idk how you begin to cultivate that culture when mom and dad either work at Walmart or are in rehab. Smh. Kids need examples of the result of aspiring beyond limitations. It's a sad reality and I still love people back home in seo and really wish better for them.

No doubt culture is important, but culture can be built and other factors matter more including coach. Here are some examples to that:

- ML is surrounded by other schools all of which have, as we would describe it, the right culture. And ML has historically had a good football program, but they had zero state titles before coach Goodwin came took over. Their program before him would have been considered inferior to Burg or IHS. Now, he has the record for most state titles at 13.

- Kirtland had zero playoff wins before Tiger became coach. Their program was far inferior to Burg and IHS. Since he took over, the program did a complete 180.

- Burg program was awful before Miller took over. Losing seasons were extremely common. In 1971, the year before Miller took over, Burg was 5-5. From 1972-1979, under Miller, Burg only lost 5 games total over 8 seasons!!!!

- Brian White, a player for Ed Miller, lead D1 Hilliard Davidson to 5 regional titles and two state titles using Ed Miller’s style of play. Hilliard wasn’t that good before him and has been a mess since he retired. And Hilliard is not a dying area overrun by crime and poverty.

- Burg baseball had been solid for some time with a state title under Brandon. Also lots of talent going through the programs. However, when Estep took over, Burg went to a different level winning back to back state titles and 5 regional titles. Burg has not won a regional title since Estep stepped down.

- Burg softball, before Ruby, was good but not great. Definitely not the dominating program in the area. Since Ruby, Burg has won 6 regional titles and 3 state championships.


In the cases of Kirtland, Marion Local, and Hilliard Davidson, it was the coaches that made their programs dominant. And in Hilliard’s case, their dominance came by using the same methods Ed Miller used for decades!

As for Burg, their football, softball, and baseball programs became what they were due to coaching. Ed Miller took over an average program and made them the 4th winningest program in Ohio. Estep took a good baseball program and made it better despite not having the same talent as before. And Ruby turned Burg softball into a state power regardless of size.


So what do all of these success stories above have in common? What is the one factor that lead to their success?