OVC Expansion

[greygoose]

I doubt Ironton is going to leave. That would put the school in a very tough scheduling position for sports outside of football. The best option for Ironton and the OVC is to have less mandatory league games for football. Oak Hill and River Valley joining the OVC would be ideal but neither seems to be interested.

Ironton
Portsmouth
Fairland
Gallia Academy
South Point

Chesapeake
Rock Hill
Oak Hill
River Valley
Dawson Bryant

I'll give ya River Valley but honestly I don't see Oak Hill as an option always felt their best option was TVC. I just think the drive going up and down 93 isn't something any of them are interested in.

[Ironman92]

I doubt Ironton is going to leave. That would put the school in a very tough scheduling position for sports outside of football. The best option for Ironton and the OVC is to have less mandatory league games for football. Oak Hill and River Valley joining the OVC would be ideal but neither seems to be interested.

Ironton
Portsmouth
Fairland
Gallia Academy
South Point

Chesapeake
Rock Hill
Oak Hill
River Valley
Dawson Bryant

I'll give ya River Valley but honestly I don't see Oak Hill as an option always felt their best option was TVC. I just think the drive going up and down 93 isn't something any of them are interested in.

I don’t like Oak Hill in the TVC at all…and I don’t think they’d like it either

[greygoose]

I doubt Ironton is going to leave. That would put the school in a very tough scheduling position for sports outside of football. The best option for Ironton and the OVC is to have less mandatory league games for football. Oak Hill and River Valley joining the OVC would be ideal but neither seems to be interested.

Ironton
Portsmouth
Fairland
Gallia Academy
South Point

Chesapeake
Rock Hill
Oak Hill
River Valley
Dawson Bryant

I'll give ya River Valley but honestly I don't see Oak Hill as an option always felt their best option was TVC. I just think the drive going up and down 93 isn't something any of them are interested in.

I don’t like Oak Hill in the TVC at all…and I don’t think they’d like it either

Why? Just curious because if you look at the Ohio Division, for the most part teams are all division 4-5-6 sized schools which OH is a DV, the drive for each school is pretty simple and made up entirely of highway. There's no year in and year out world beaters which would hopefully make it much more competitive for OH. So just curious as to your thoughts behind not liking it at all.
Alexander D5
Athens D3
Meigs D4
Nelsonville-York D6
River Valley D5
Vinton County D4
Wellston D5

[Ironman92]

I'll give ya River Valley but honestly I don't see Oak Hill as an option always felt their best option was TVC. I just think the drive going up and down 93 isn't something any of them are interested in.

I don’t like Oak Hill in the TVC at all…and I don’t think they’d like it either

Why? Just curious because if you look at the Ohio Division, for the most part teams are all division 4-5-6 sized schools which OH is a DV, the drive for each school is pretty simple and made up entirely of highway. There's no year in and year out world beaters which would hopefully make it much more competitive for OH. So just curious as to your thoughts behind not liking it at all.
Alexander D5
Athens D3
Meigs D4
Nelsonville-York D6
River Valley D5
Vinton County D4
Wellston D5

I don’t feel the kids, coaches, parents and fans will enjoy traveling to or playing many of those schools compared to the teams they play now or the OVC schools…..competitively speaking they would fare a bit better in the TVC. I just don’t think they’d like it as much. I’ve had this stance since it was mentioned 2 years ago.

Oak Hill is more South Webster, Minford and Burg like than Alexander, Meigs and Athens. I do feel Oak Hill should play Wellston in most every sport….River Valley makes sense. VC and Alex could be argued but Athens, Meigs and Nelsonville no. I just don’t see them liking it.

[greygoose]

I don’t like Oak Hill in the TVC at all…and I don’t think they’d like it either

Why? Just curious because if you look at the Ohio Division, for the most part teams are all division 4-5-6 sized schools which OH is a DV, the drive for each school is pretty simple and made up entirely of highway. There's no year in and year out world beaters which would hopefully make it much more competitive for OH. So just curious as to your thoughts behind not liking it at all.
Alexander D5
Athens D3
Meigs D4
Nelsonville-York D6
River Valley D5
Vinton County D4
Wellston D5

I don’t feel the kids, coaches, parents and fans will traveling to or playing many of those schools compared to the teams they play now or the OVC schools…..competitively speaking they would fare a bit better in the TVC. I just don’t think they’d like it as much. I’ve had this stance since it was mentioned 2 years ago

They don't travel very well anyways and I haven't met a person yet that has thought going up and down 93 was a good idea or fun. Jackson when they traveled to Ashland I believe drove all the way down 32, hit 23 to the bypass and it was still quicker doing that as compared to 93. 100% I think they're more competitive in the TVC, York probably the farthest distance but again mainly highway. For me with the competitive nature and then add in that 93 absolutely sucks and parents don't want their kids driving up and down it I still have to stick with TVC as best option. IF they were to go anywhere

[captainmorgan_]

I would personally like to see ironton join the soc 2

[Dundas]

Why? Just curious because if you look at the Ohio Division, for the most part teams are all division 4-5-6 sized schools which OH is a DV, the drive for each school is pretty simple and made up entirely of highway. There's no year in and year out world beaters which would hopefully make it much more competitive for OH. So just curious as to your thoughts behind not liking it at all.
Alexander D5
Athens D3
Meigs D4
Nelsonville-York D6
River Valley D5
Vinton County D4
Wellston D5

I don’t feel the kids, coaches, parents and fans will traveling to or playing many of those schools compared to the teams they play now or the OVC schools…..competitively speaking they would fare a bit better in the TVC. I just don’t think they’d like it as much. I’ve had this stance since it was mentioned 2 years ago

They don't travel very well anyways and I haven't met a person yet that has thought going up and down 93 was a good idea or fun. Jackson when they traveled to Ashland I believe drove all the way down 32, hit 23 to the bypass and it was still quicker doing that as compared to 93. 100% I think they're more competitive in the TVC, York probably the farthest distance but again mainly highway. For me with the competitive nature and then add in that 93 absolutely sucks and parents don't want their kids driving up and down it I still have to stick with TVC as best option. IF they were to go anywhere

Definitely great points. Oak Hill wanted in the TVC when the SVAC disbanded years ago but didn’t get in. Had they, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. They wanted in then, I don’t know why they wouldn’t entertain it again. Longest drive to NY is right at an hour (45 minutes on SR32). You already hit on the competition and school size benefits. Not sure what downside there is honestly.

[Ironman92]

I don’t feel the kids, coaches, parents and fans will traveling to or playing many of those schools compared to the teams they play now or the OVC schools…..competitively speaking they would fare a bit better in the TVC. I just don’t think they’d like it as much. I’ve had this stance since it was mentioned 2 years ago

They don't travel very well anyways and I haven't met a person yet that has thought going up and down 93 was a good idea or fun. Jackson when they traveled to Ashland I believe drove all the way down 32, hit 23 to the bypass and it was still quicker doing that as compared to 93. 100% I think they're more competitive in the TVC, York probably the farthest distance but again mainly highway. For me with the competitive nature and then add in that 93 absolutely sucks and parents don't want their kids driving up and down it I still have to stick with TVC as best option. IF they were to go anywhere

Definitely great points. Oak Hill wanted in the TVC when the SVAC disbanded years ago but didn’t get in. Had they, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. They wanted in then, I don’t know why they wouldn’t entertain it again. Longest drive to NY is right at an hour (45 minutes on SR32). You already hit on the competition and school size benefits. Not sure what downside there is honestly.

30 years ago they didn’t have a conference….now they do and it’s an entirely different group of people involved.

[Ed Gennero]

I don’t feel the kids, coaches, parents and fans will traveling to or playing many of those schools compared to the teams they play now or the OVC schools…..competitively speaking they would fare a bit better in the TVC. I just don’t think they’d like it as much. I’ve had this stance since it was mentioned 2 years ago

They don't travel very well anyways and I haven't met a person yet that has thought going up and down 93 was a good idea or fun. Jackson when they traveled to Ashland I believe drove all the way down 32, hit 23 to the bypass and it was still quicker doing that as compared to 93. 100% I think they're more competitive in the TVC, York probably the farthest distance but again mainly highway. For me with the competitive nature and then add in that 93 absolutely sucks and parents don't want their kids driving up and down it I still have to stick with TVC as best option. IF they were to go anywhere

Definitely great points. Oak Hill wanted in the TVC when the SVAC disbanded years ago but didn’t get in. Had they, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. They wanted in then, I don’t know why they wouldn’t entertain it again. Longest drive to NY is right at an hour (45 minutes on SR32). You already hit on the competition and school size benefits. Not sure what downside there is honestly.

Why would anyone leave the SOC for the TVC ? Insanity

[Dundas]

They don't travel very well anyways and I haven't met a person yet that has thought going up and down 93 was a good idea or fun. Jackson when they traveled to Ashland I believe drove all the way down 32, hit 23 to the bypass and it was still quicker doing that as compared to 93. 100% I think they're more competitive in the TVC, York probably the farthest distance but again mainly highway. For me with the competitive nature and then add in that 93 absolutely sucks and parents don't want their kids driving up and down it I still have to stick with TVC as best option. IF they were to go anywhere

Definitely great points. Oak Hill wanted in the TVC when the SVAC disbanded years ago but didn’t get in. Had they, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. They wanted in then, I don’t know why they wouldn’t entertain it again. Longest drive to NY is right at an hour (45 minutes on SR32). You already hit on the competition and school size benefits. Not sure what downside there is honestly.

Why would anyone leave the SOC for the TVC ? Insanity

You must have trouble reading all of the positive things being discussed about the possible move. How about, 222 to 13. Thats minus 209 points for the Oaks last year vs their division of the SOC. They played 2 non conference games against TVC teams and scored almost the same amount as their entire SOC season and that was against two of the better teams in the Ohio Division. If you think Oak Hill belongs in the SOC and should be happy with being outscored by around 200 points in a 5 game season, I guess you’re entitled to that opinion. I just don’t see how that’s good for Oak Hill.

As for OVC expansion, Oak Hill did lose to Rock Hill but I’m certain would have won a couple games in the OVC this past season. Better in terms of competition but I’m with others on this thread about the drive down 93. It’s not fun.

[Omega]

Definitely great points. Oak Hill wanted in the TVC when the SVAC disbanded years ago but didn’t get in. Had they, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. They wanted in then, I don’t know why they wouldn’t entertain it again. Longest drive to NY is right at an hour (45 minutes on SR32). You already hit on the competition and school size benefits. Not sure what downside there is honestly.

Why would anyone leave the SOC for the TVC ? Insanity

You must have trouble reading all of the positive things being discussed about the possible move. How about, 222 to 13. Thats minus 209 points for the Oaks last year vs their division of the SOC. They played 2 non conference games against TVC teams and scored almost the same amount as their entire SOC season and that was against two of the better teams in the Ohio Division. If you think Oak Hill belongs in the SOC and should be happy with being outscored by around 200 points in a 5 game season, I guess you’re entitled to that opinion. I just don’t see how that’s good for Oak Hill.

As for OVC expansion, Oak Hill did lose to Rock Hill but I’m certain would have won a couple games in the OVC this past season. Better in terms of competition but I’m with others on this thread about the drive down 93. It’s not fun.

Just a thought, will conference realignment and scheduling become more about managing the costs of high school sports rather than competitive aspects of the sports. Could we see conferences break up into smaller pods with less travel distance to minimize fuel costs?

[Ed Gennero]

Definitely great points. Oak Hill wanted in the TVC when the SVAC disbanded years ago but didn’t get in. Had they, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. They wanted in then, I don’t know why they wouldn’t entertain it again. Longest drive to NY is right at an hour (45 minutes on SR32). You already hit on the competition and school size benefits. Not sure what downside there is honestly.

Why would anyone leave the SOC for the TVC ? Insanity

You must have trouble reading all of the positive things being discussed about the possible move. How about, 222 to 13. Thats minus 209 points for the Oaks last year vs their division of the SOC. They played 2 non conference games against TVC teams and scored almost the same amount as their entire SOC season and that was against two of the better teams in the Ohio Division. If you think Oak Hill belongs in the SOC and should be happy with being outscored by around 200 points in a 5 game season, I guess you’re entitled to that opinion. I just don’t see how that’s good for Oak Hill.

As for OVC expansion, Oak Hill did lose to Rock Hill but I’m certain would have won a couple games in the OVC this past season. Better in terms of competition but I’m with others on this thread about the drive down 93. It’s not fun.

Of course the tvc is a much weaker conference , I guess it depends on what Oak Hills goals are.

[Dundas]

Why would anyone leave the SOC for the TVC ? Insanity

You must have trouble reading all of the positive things being discussed about the possible move. How about, 222 to 13. Thats minus 209 points for the Oaks last year vs their division of the SOC. They played 2 non conference games against TVC teams and scored almost the same amount as their entire SOC season and that was against two of the better teams in the Ohio Division. If you think Oak Hill belongs in the SOC and should be happy with being outscored by around 200 points in a 5 game season, I guess you’re entitled to that opinion. I just don’t see how that’s good for Oak Hill.

As for OVC expansion, Oak Hill did lose to Rock Hill but I’m certain would have won a couple games in the OVC this past season. Better in terms of competition but I’m with others on this thread about the drive down 93. It’s not fun.

Of course the tvc is a much weaker conference , I guess it depends on what Oak Hills goals are.

I guess we can both agree that Oak Hill’s goal isn’t to be outscored by 200+ in 5 games each season. The situation OH is in is different than just a bad school in a great conference. They were a power in the small school division of the SOC. It’s clear they needed out of there. The only problem is, they aren’t at the level of the big school division year in and year out. The TVC Ohio is right in that sweet spot for an Oak Hill type program. Is the TVC Ohio top to bottom better than the big school SOC? Absolutely not. Is the TVC a much better option than the small school SOC? Absolutely. If Oak Hills goal is to be in a competitive conference with overall good facilities with the ability to schedule non conference games to help their teams needs from year to year, then the TVC Ohio is the best choice. If Oak Hills goal is to stay in the SOC for pride or because some people from SEO say get better or deal with getting thumped year in and year out, the the SOC it is. I understand a program needs to look extremely closely before making a decision to change conferences but I feel like in the case of the Oaks, it makes sense. It absolutely makes sense for the TVC to want them.

[greygoose]

Why would anyone leave the SOC for the TVC ? Insanity

You must have trouble reading all of the positive things being discussed about the possible move. How about, 222 to 13. Thats minus 209 points for the Oaks last year vs their division of the SOC. They played 2 non conference games against TVC teams and scored almost the same amount as their entire SOC season and that was against two of the better teams in the Ohio Division. If you think Oak Hill belongs in the SOC and should be happy with being outscored by around 200 points in a 5 game season, I guess you’re entitled to that opinion. I just don’t see how that’s good for Oak Hill.

As for OVC expansion, Oak Hill did lose to Rock Hill but I’m certain would have won a couple games in the OVC this past season. Better in terms of competition but I’m with others on this thread about the drive down 93. It’s not fun.

Of course the tvc is a much weaker conference , I guess it depends on what Oak Hills goals are.

No school wants to get their brains kicked in year in and year out, it's one of the reasons the overall number of players drop. You look at some of these schools that are the same size like a Burg and they've got 80 kids on the team because that's what winning does. When OH was beating the brains off the SOC1 teams they were probably in the mid 40s to low 50s from a numbers stand point. Even football aside OH isn't even competing in any of the other sports, it's not like a Ironton where they're running the OVC in football but they're just average at every other sport. Never understood the whole depends on your goals, I think being able to be competitive and win is the goal year in and year out. Right now they're not an there's no help on the horizon either as they had about 15-16 kids on the JH team.

[greygoose]

Why would anyone leave the SOC for the TVC ? Insanity

You must have trouble reading all of the positive things being discussed about the possible move. How about, 222 to 13. Thats minus 209 points for the Oaks last year vs their division of the SOC. They played 2 non conference games against TVC teams and scored almost the same amount as their entire SOC season and that was against two of the better teams in the Ohio Division. If you think Oak Hill belongs in the SOC and should be happy with being outscored by around 200 points in a 5 game season, I guess you’re entitled to that opinion. I just don’t see how that’s good for Oak Hill.

As for OVC expansion, Oak Hill did lose to Rock Hill but I’m certain would have won a couple games in the OVC this past season. Better in terms of competition but I’m with others on this thread about the drive down 93. It’s not fun.

Just a thought, will conference realignment and scheduling become more about managing the costs of high school sports rather than competitive aspects of the sports. Could we see conferences break up into smaller pods with less travel distance to minimize fuel costs?

I think you see that now in terms of trying to manage the overall cost and with gas and diesel what it is it's that much harder. I don't know that you'll see any breaking up into smaller pods simply because you still have to fill a schedule regardless so you're going to travel some either way. At least with the conferences as they are you have 5-6 games set year in and year out.

[Ironman92]

You must have trouble reading all of the positive things being discussed about the possible move. How about, 222 to 13. Thats minus 209 points for the Oaks last year vs their division of the SOC. They played 2 non conference games against TVC teams and scored almost the same amount as their entire SOC season and that was against two of the better teams in the Ohio Division. If you think Oak Hill belongs in the SOC and should be happy with being outscored by around 200 points in a 5 game season, I guess you’re entitled to that opinion. I just don’t see how that’s good for Oak Hill.

As for OVC expansion, Oak Hill did lose to Rock Hill but I’m certain would have won a couple games in the OVC this past season. Better in terms of competition but I’m with others on this thread about the drive down 93. It’s not fun.

Of course the tvc is a much weaker conference , I guess it depends on what Oak Hills goals are.

I guess we can both agree that Oak Hill’s goal isn’t to be outscored by 200+ in 5 games each season. The situation OH is in is different than just a bad school in a great conference. They were a power in the small school division of the SOC. It’s clear they needed out of there. The only problem is, they aren’t at the level of the big school division year in and year out. The TVC Ohio is right in that sweet spot for an Oak Hill type program. Is the TVC Ohio top to bottom better than the big school SOC? Absolutely not. Is the TVC a much better option than the small school SOC? Absolutely. If Oak Hills goal is to be in a competitive conference with overall good facilities with the ability to schedule non conference games to help their teams needs from year to year, then the TVC Ohio is the best choice. If Oak Hills goal is to stay in the SOC for pride or because some people from SEO say get better or deal with getting thumped year in and year out, the the SOC it is. I understand a program needs to look extremely closely before making a decision to change conferences but I feel like in the case of the Oaks, it makes sense. It absolutely makes sense for the TVC to want them.

Doesn’t pretty much everyone have good overall facilities?

[Dundas]

Of course the tvc is a much weaker conference , I guess it depends on what Oak Hills goals are.

I guess we can both agree that Oak Hill’s goal isn’t to be outscored by 200+ in 5 games each season. The situation OH is in is different than just a bad school in a great conference. They were a power in the small school division of the SOC. It’s clear they needed out of there. The only problem is, they aren’t at the level of the big school division year in and year out. The TVC Ohio is right in that sweet spot for an Oak Hill type program. Is the TVC Ohio top to bottom better than the big school SOC? Absolutely not. Is the TVC a much better option than the small school SOC? Absolutely. If Oak Hills goal is to be in a competitive conference with overall good facilities with the ability to schedule non conference games to help their teams needs from year to year, then the TVC Ohio is the best choice. If Oak Hills goal is to stay in the SOC for pride or because some people from SEO say get better or deal with getting thumped year in and year out, the the SOC it is. I understand a program needs to look extremely closely before making a decision to change conferences but I feel like in the case of the Oaks, it makes sense. It absolutely makes sense for the TVC to want them.

Doesn’t pretty much everyone have good overall facilities?

True. You got me there. Rv, Meigs, VC and Wellston still have grass fields so the SOC gets the nod in that regard. But what other reason is there that makes sense for oak hill to remain in that conference? No one has given any valid points as to why they should stay other than simply saying, because.

[baseball16]

Of course the tvc is a much weaker conference , I guess it depends on what Oak Hills goals are.

I guess we can both agree that Oak Hill’s goal isn’t to be outscored by 200+ in 5 games each season. The situation OH is in is different than just a bad school in a great conference. They were a power in the small school division of the SOC. It’s clear they needed out of there. The only problem is, they aren’t at the level of the big school division year in and year out. The TVC Ohio is right in that sweet spot for an Oak Hill type program. Is the TVC Ohio top to bottom better than the big school SOC? Absolutely not. Is the TVC a much better option than the small school SOC? Absolutely. If Oak Hills goal is to be in a competitive conference with overall good facilities with the ability to schedule non conference games to help their teams needs from year to year, then the TVC Ohio is the best choice. If Oak Hills goal is to stay in the SOC for pride or because some people from SEO say get better or deal with getting thumped year in and year out, the the SOC it is. I understand a program needs to look extremely closely before making a decision to change conferences but I feel like in the case of the Oaks, it makes sense. It absolutely makes sense for the TVC to want them.

Doesn’t pretty much everyone have good overall facilities?

Oak Hill has GREAT Facilities for GAMES, but the Practice Facilities are tough and not up to par compared to what everyone else has. What I mean is, there is only one operational gym for basketball....practice times become very difficult for indoors, Winter time is a nightmare to schedule practice time for Baseball, Softball, Track, Rec. Basketball,MS Basketball, and H.S. Basketball. There is an auxillary gym about the size of two classrooms. Not practical for much other than PE. If OH wants to start competing with the Upper SOC 2 schools they will need to invest in their practice facilities.

[Ironman92]

I guess we can both agree that Oak Hill’s goal isn’t to be outscored by 200+ in 5 games each season. The situation OH is in is different than just a bad school in a great conference. They were a power in the small school division of the SOC. It’s clear they needed out of there. The only problem is, they aren’t at the level of the big school division year in and year out. The TVC Ohio is right in that sweet spot for an Oak Hill type program. Is the TVC Ohio top to bottom better than the big school SOC? Absolutely not. Is the TVC a much better option than the small school SOC? Absolutely. If Oak Hills goal is to be in a competitive conference with overall good facilities with the ability to schedule non conference games to help their teams needs from year to year, then the TVC Ohio is the best choice. If Oak Hills goal is to stay in the SOC for pride or because some people from SEO say get better or deal with getting thumped year in and year out, the the SOC it is. I understand a program needs to look extremely closely before making a decision to change conferences but I feel like in the case of the Oaks, it makes sense. It absolutely makes sense for the TVC to want them.

Doesn’t pretty much everyone have good overall facilities?

True. You got me there. Rv, Meigs, VC and Wellston still have grass fields so the SOC gets the nod in that regard. But what other reason is there that makes sense for oak hill to remain in that conference? No one has given any valid points as to why they should stay other than simply saying, because.

I’m going to try and say this without offending anyone, not my intention. We are all southern Ohio and to most of Ohio, we are all hicks and most of us own right up to it and prove it true. I live in Jackson, one of the “big” cities of the southern Ohio rednecks. We are all mostly the same but there are differences I’ve noticed (or maybe am just making up) No one is right or wrong just my observation. I’m old enough to have a good feel for many different areas. Now being in rivalries with WCH/Hillsboro/McClain/MT feels decently different than Logan/Gallia A/Athens etc. it’s a competitive league mainly across the sports. Hillsboro is different than Gallipolis….Washington is different than Athens. I will admit Washington CH and Gallipolis do feel similar, rivalry isn’t there to that level but the communities feel similar.

I’ve been to many a game in most sports to the TVC/SOC/OVC schools. Going to Burg/SW/OH/Minford just never feels the same as it does going to VC/Wellston/Alex. It may sound weird but . Oak Hill folks are very prideful. Most I know aren’t interested in running from competition. They may not have the athletes/coaches/facilities whatever right now to compete in the SOC 2 but I’d be very surprised if the true Oak Hill people wanted out so they could compete….it just doesn’t sound like the Oak Hill I know. Very proud folk and they want to be successful and carry the chip on the shoulder. I’ve always liked playing Oak Hill and supporting Oak Hill….and they are welcoming to supporters but they are their own people. I feel they feel they are a part of the SW/Butg/Minford/Valley area and league, maybe I’m way off, wouldn’t be a first or last time, but I’d be surprised if long time Oak Hill families and supporters are wanting to cut and run rather than give it what it takes to improve and compete better in the SOC 2.

The TVC is it’s own…it’s a good league with the right teams. River Valley doesn’t feel perfect there but Wellston/VC/Alex/Meigs/NY….feels perfect. Athens doesn’t greatly fit IMO but they seem happy. Athens/Logan/Warren/Marietta….maybe a New Lex snd Sheridan to round it out feels like a good TVC upper division to me.

Again, I could be completely out of touch and way off but this is how I see it.

[greygoose]

Understandable but unfortunately the numbers simply don't support your basis of not changing leagues based on "pride". If this were the case the kids from these families you mention would be coming out and the numbers wouldn't be dropping as far as they are nor would the talent. They literally had 15 kids on JH this year and for a DV school that's awful. Your referencing cut and running but they'd be running off to a TVC where they "might" be more competitive at least have a better shot at it, they're not cutting and running back to a league like SOC1 where the beat everyone down. They're going to take losses in the TVC they're going to take losses in the OVC where they are at right now from a competitive standpoint they at least know going in they'd have a shot in most games in the TVC. Right now with what SOC2 is putting out there and the teams coming up they're the cellar dweller it's a harsh reality but that's just facts. They're not in a rut or coming up on a upward swing they're down there for the next 5-6 years at least.