Is Zanesville leaving the SEOAL after the 2008-2009 season?

[ironman02]

Army,

You started your usually Jackson bashing when you told gahs4ever and I that we were wrong about Jackson's stay in the SEOAL. Out of nowhere, you brought up something about the 1980s when Jackson was looking into joining another league. I don't know the reasoning behind them doing that, but they stuck around, and became dominant during a good part of the 90s.

You said that our statements about Jackson always being in the SEOAL and continuing that in the future were wrong. I then told you that they can't possibly wrong. Jackson has NEVER left the SEOAL since its creation and they aren't leaving right now, so 4ever and I were completely justified in saying what we said.

You didn't like it because you knew I was right. Then you go off on one of your tangents where you rip Jackson and accuse me of being ashamed of the fact that they might have thought about other options in the 1980s. I have no idea what will happen in the future, but at this time, Jackson is committed to the SEOAL. They voted no for expansion, but when the other SEOAL schools voted yes, they still stood by the league. They haven't left yet and I don't think they're going anywhere as far as I can see. You have such a dislike for Jackson, or maybe even me, that you jump on anything I say and try to twist it around into some sort of insult. Then you say that I can never be civil. Try being civil to me first and you might be surprised what you get in return.

[noreply66]

^^^ good post

[NYBuckeye96]

I don't blame Zanesville for their decision. Now we know that Zanesville has lost revenue as well. Ironton has stated their loss in revenue. Similarly, one of the reasons Athens decided to join the TVC is the fact that games against more local schools (NY, Alexander, etc.) generate much more revenue than Athens vs. SEOAL schools.

I would be interested in learning the financial situations of the other SEOAL schools to see if this is consistent across the board concerning loss of revenue.

As I stated in an earlier post, I am not in favor of such a widespread league as the SEOAL in terms of distances. Even if the far away games are on a Saturday, very few people want to travel 2-3 hours one way just to attend a high school sporting event, when you could be playing a team just a few miles down the road. With Zanesville leaving, the SEOAL will be a little more condensed, but still spread out.

I too believe that it is likely Ironton will eventually leave the SEOAL again. Perhaps in a couple years, or perhaps several years from now, but I think there is just too much controversy in that community concerning the SEOAL and it will ultimately lead to Ironton leaving the league.

I will not speculate on any other SEOAL school. I think there will always be a SEOAL, but I also think that their will not be stability in who is a member of the league. I do not think any other school will want to join the SEOAL as it exists now. So for the time being, I see the SEOAL gradually getting smaller. But, it will continue to exist, it just might only have 5, 6, 7 schools. Which is fine. I think the league is better off smaller and not having divisions.

Bottom line.....every school has to play teams that will bring fans to the games and generate revenue. It appears that the spread out ten team SEOAL was not able to achieve that goal.

[NYBuckeye96]

Here is the article from the Zanesville Times Recorder -

http://www.zanesvilletimesrecorder.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080117/UPDATES04/80117013


Zanesville to leave SEOAL
By DAVE WEIDIG
Staff Writer

Zanesville High School is a school board vote away from leaving the Southeastern Ohio Athletic League.

"With final board approval, we will leave the league after the 2008-09 season," said ZHS athletic director and head boys basketball coach Scott Aronhalt, who informed the SEOAL athletic directors at a meeting at Jackson High School. "At that time, we will pursue a couple of different options. If that doesn't work, we will become independent."

The Zanesville Board of Education's next meeting is Thursday, Jan. 24. The "other options" reportedly involve trying to join the East Central Ohio League, which the Blue Devils have pursued before, or forming a football-basketball league with some Ohio Valley Athletic Conference schools.

ZHS just joined the SEOAL during the 2006-07 season, along with Chillicothe, Ironton and Portsmouth. The 10-team league was divided into two divisions: ZHS, Marietta, Warren Local, Athens and Logan in the North; Ironton, Chillicothe, Portsmouth, Jackson and Gallipolis Gallia Academy in the South. However, two months before the 2006-07 season, Athens announced it was leaving for the Tri-Valley Conference effective with the end of this school year, and Ironton has also made rumblings about leaving.
Aronhalt said the travel situation, with some schools located two or three hours away, was an overriding factor — especially for non-revenue sports. "It wasn't a good fit for us," he said.

"We have a good relationship with the SEOAL," he added. "But there are no real rivalries for us within the league, and with the cost of gas and transportation, there's no sense in sending our teams to distant spots.

"Our fans travel as well as anyone in the state, but even a lot of them haven't been going to some of these different venues. They're just too far away."

Zanesville's last SEOAL event will be the 2009 conference track meet at Logan.

[Army]

Army,

You started your usually Jackson bashing when you told gahs4ever and I that we were wrong about Jackson's stay in the SEOAL. Out of nowhere, you brought up something about the 1980s when Jackson was looking into joining another league. I don't know the reasoning behind them doing that, but they stuck around, and became dominant during a good part of the 90s.

You said that our statements about Jackson always being in the SEOAL and continuing that in the future were wrong. I then told you that they can't possibly wrong. Jackson has NEVER left the SEOAL since its creation and they aren't leaving right now, so 4ever and I were completely justified in saying what we said.

You didn't like it because you knew I was right. Then you go off on one of your tangents where you rip Jackson and accuse me of being ashamed of the fact that they might have thought about other options in the 1980s. I have no idea what will happen in the future, but at this time, Jackson is committed to the SEOAL. They voted no for expansion, but when the other SEOAL schools voted yes, they still stood by the league. They haven't left yet and I don't think they're going anywhere as far as I can see. You have such a dislike for Jackson, or maybe even me, that you jump on anything I say and try to twist it around into some sort of insult. Then you say that I can never be civil. Try being civil to me first and you might be surprised what you get in return.

^^^ good post

It may be funny watching the three amigos try to play as a SEOAL in 3-4 years down the road. 3 teams 2 league games 8 non-league games

[ironman02]

That's the type of response I expected. Some things never change.

[Army]

That's the type of response I expected. Some things never change.

And likewise back at you.

It could be an actual fact in 3-4 years....then what? I know Chillicothe is not going to stick around in a 3-4 team league. Heck they would be better off as an independent. Hope it's not going that way...but it could.

[oldschoolblue]

I have no problem with Zanesville leaving , but was Jackson the only member who realised this would not work, the distance between some of these schools is the same as it was when they voted them in. The SEOAL will eventually become a 5 or 6 team league.

[oldschoolblue]

I saw where Zanesville lost big money in there sports program, Gallipolis will continue to make money, that is all they care about. $5.00 to watch a baseball or softball game by Chickamauga creek, with no running water and a port a crapper. $5.00 for every person even a kindergarten kid. We even shut the scoreboard off imediatly after a game so we can save electric. Zanesville join the penny penching group from Gallipolis

[NYBuckeye96]

Here is an interesting related article from the Logan Daily News. It's kind of harsh on Athens I think, but a great article none the less.

http://www.logandaily.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=73&ArticleID=124396&TM=58182.25

Zanesville raised bar for competition in SEOAL
Craig Dunn
of The Logan Daily News



Zanesville High School's decision to depart the Southeastern Ohio Athletic League after the 2008-09 school year really comes as no surprise. After all, it had been going around the rumor mill for months.

So now, knowing my reaction in this space a couple years ago to Athens' decision to leave the league, you're probably asking yourself, "is he going to blast Zanesville, too?"

A fair question... but the answer is no. That's because when you compare the circumstances of Athens' departure with those involving Zanesville, two major differences must be considered.

First and foremost: Zanesville did it right. The school gave the new setup two years (actually three, counting next season) instead of pulling an Athens and bailing two months before the revamped 10-school league even contested its first event in 2006.

Second: Nothing against the school, its athletes or coaches, but of the four schools added to the SEOAL mix prior to the 2006-07 school year, in retrospect Zanesville is the one that just doesn't fit geographically.

Travel distance is a major issue and a justifiable concern for each and every school - not only within the SEOAL, but everywhere. Zanesville, Chillicothe, Ironton and Portsmouth all knew that prior to joining the league, as did holdovers Logan, Athens, Gallipolis, Jackson, Marietta and Warren when they accepted them.

But that was well before gas prices soared to more than $3 a gallon, which is bad enough for those of us who travel to SEOAL events, but even worse for schools having to deal with bus fuel costs that are more than twice as much per gallon.

A quick check on the Yahoo! website shows Zanesville's closest trip is Logan (45 miles), followed by North Division foes Athens (located in The Plains, 49 miles), Warren (58) and Marietta (69). South Division schools are much farther away for Zanesville - Jackson (92), Gallipolis (95), Chillicothe (96), Ironton (134) and Portsmouth (139) - and Ironton and Portsmouth are especially difficult to get to from Zanesville.

I won't blast Zanesville for those reasons, plus for one other reason: Zanesville helped raise the competitive bar for a league that had, in all candor, grown stale.

Zanesville was immediately competitive in nearly every SEOAL sport. While many coaches around the SEOAL didn't like it, they also acknowledged that it meant they hard to work harder to improve their programs.

I'm told several Zanesville coaches wanted to remain in the SEOAL for that very reason. Plus, being independent - which Zanesville plans to do for now, unless it can gain long-sought entry into the East Central Ohio League - doesn't give its teams much to shoot for except pride and post-season tournament competition.

SEOAL coaches, athletes and fans alike talk about Zanesville (as well as Chillicothe) in terms of increasing the league's overall competitiveness as well as heightening the league's image around the state. That will be Zanesville's SEOAL legacy.

While Athens also used travel as its reason for its departure two years ago, you'll never convince me the school's reasoning was for anything other than being unable - or unwilling - to raise the bar within its athletic program and compete with the new schools.

In my eyes, and in those of many others, whereas Zanesville helped raised the competitive bar, Athens wanted to lower it.

I don't want to look too far ahead, seeing as how both the Logan Lady Chiefs and Logan Chieftains are having excellent basketball seasons, but I've already seen the schedules for 2008-09, their first in the new 2,000-seat gymnasium currently under construction along with the new LHS campus on state Route 328 just off U.S. Route 33.

The Chieftains have an even 10 home games and 10 away games while the Lady Chiefs, who won't host their own Holiday Classic for the first time since the early 1990s, have nine home games and 11 on the road since they're playing two games in the Heath Holiday Tournament.

The Chiefs' schedule of opponents remains the same with the exception of dropping New Lexington and playing in the Ohio University Convocation Center Saturday, Dec. 13, against an opponent yet to be determined. They'll also host an SEOAL "Day of Champions" game.

In addition to the Heath tournament, the Lady Chiefs will host Vinton County and Lancaster, who replace New Lexington and Alexander. They play five consecutive road games over a two-week stretch, venturing to Zanesville (Dec. 27), Heath (Dec. 29-30), Marietta (Jan. 3) and Warren (Jan. 10).

Both Logan basketball teams also play home-and-away two-game sets with Athens, so even though Athens is leaving the SEOAL those games didn't need to be replaced.

I've been very vocal about Logan cutting athletic ties with Athens altogether. So while I don't agree with scheduling Athens for basketball (Athens will also be on a lot of LHS and middle school sports schedules) I understand, and grudgingly accept, the reasoning for doing so.

Athens isn't nearly the heated rival it once was. Logan's longtime dominance of the Athens football series, as well as the Chiefs' and Lady Chiefs' recent success in basketball, has dulled the rivalry.

Depending upon the sport, I think Warren, Marietta, Zanesville, Gallipolis, Chillicothe and Jackson - and even non-league Lancaster - all are bigger rivals these days.

But Athens High School is located only 22 miles from Logan High School, whose athletic teams are under a school mandate to play non-SEOAL and non-tournament games against schools from no farther away than 50 miles due to the same travel concerns to which I alluded earlier in this column.

And, besides, leaving the SEOAL isn't the fault of the Athens athletes or their fans.

[NYBuckeye96]

I was under the impression that SEOAL schools were required to give a two year notice regarding leaving the league, or face a fine.

Zanesville is leaving at the end of next school year, June 2009. They are just now informing the league of their departure, which will not be official until the next board meeting and then informing the SEOAL of the final vote at the February league meeting. So, two years notice would put this at February 2010, which would for all purposes, put this at June 2010.

So will Zanesville face fines for only giving 16 months notice and not the required 24 month notice?

[oldschoolblue]

GAHS, Gallipolis is like most other teams there crowd shows up when they are winning. I remember in the 80s when that gym was packed during a reserve game. Most people are fair weather fans. I think that you can get by with a bigger participation fee at a large school but you know as well as I do it takes everything most people have to let there kid participate in a activity in school, it is a shame but it is all about dollars.

[oldschoolblue]

Hey Buckeye 96 I hear that they will be on secret double probation

[Blacksunshine]

Well,well,well now the economics have finally come into play. Let it be known that I was never in favor of the formation of the "New" SEOAL or I as I like to call it the New World Order. Realistically, this was doomed from the get go, you can't create a league that is so spread out and expect it to compare with other leagues that exist in a more densely populated area. I am not bashing any school or team in this case, just critizing the theory and logic behind the whole creation of such a thing. When this was first announced I am sure there was plenty of support for the idea that the SEOAL would become a stronger and more competitive place to be. But with less than three years into the experiment, you are seeing the wheels starting to come off the wagon, schools have seen the economic strain it has created. Distance is a factor, anyone who says different must be named Whittaker or Forbes. Fuel costs money, maintenence on buses costs money, where do you recover the money needed to provide transportation? Charge the kids more to play? How about charge the parents/fans/supporters/families by raising admission prices to events or games? I don't think that would be a feasable answer.

OSB--It is an outcry to have to pay $5 to watch a baseball or softball game at the Chick Swamp no matter what the age of the spectator.

As far as Zville leaving, it makes economic sense. This experiment didn't work, now let's learn from our mistakes and stop trying to be something we're not.

[oldschoolblue]

Blacksunshine, no truer words have ever been spoken. Most knew this was doomed from the begininng, nobody prepared for rising cost and nobody prepared for the mass exits that will happen in this league. FAILURE TO PREPARE IS PREPARING TO FAIL.

[Blacksunshine]

FAILURE TO PREPARE IS PREPARING TO FAIL

Interesting, LOL, Interesting.

Arrogance or Ignorance? Here's to all the NWO supporters. If you project losing three schools over the next two years(Athens, Z-ville, I-town) what's your plan of action? Do you need two divisions? If you plan to leave the format as is, who are your replacement schools and what attracts them to want to be a part of a "new" league that has lost three schools not long after it's conception? Who would want to board the Titanic if they knew what the outcome was ahead of time? In 1984-85 the league expanded to add Marietta and Warren(after I-town went to a newly formed Kentucky-Ohio League, what ever happened to that league?), that worked out well for all parties involved. But as the 90's began things started veering off course, the addition of River Valley and Point didn't work to well. So they departed over time, and we just couldn't be content with what we had, thus the experiment began. The old addage "If it ain't broke don't fix it" has probably been used, but what the heck. History has shown that the SEOAL has seen schools come and go and come and go, yet it has percerviered, let's stop trying to build a better mousetrap and remember the most important thing is IT'S FOR THE KIDS.

[2old]

ZV,

So what are the numbers that come from the "Big RED" There must be alot that sit on the home side because the visitors side can not handle the Logan crowd.

Secondly based on the way Zville travels for football why would the Big Red want a return engagement. Zville brings a good BB following but not much for football.

This will prove to be a good move only if the football team is able to schedule close and bring in decent crowds. At this point it is way too early to say it is a good move for Zville from a financial aspect. Non revenue is just that non revenue. Yes the trips are shorter but it is still a money losing proposition. If it was based purely on finance most schools would have only football and maybe BB.

I really don't blame zville for leaving, but all this smoke about money does not sound to me to be the real reason. Zville has been independent for a long time and really does not understand the league concept. Also the BB can run a state wide program that would seem to please the AD.

[Zanes-Vegas]

First of all, here is the complete story as it appeared in our newspaper this morning, with quotes from our girls basketball and football coaches.

http://www.zanesvilletimesrecorder.com/ ... /801180302

Now, please forgive me for the bandwidth I'm about to chew up.

2old ...

You never fail to amaze me. You seem to believe that whatever garbage you post on here that everyone else should accept at face value as fact, yet when someone outside your kingdom does the same, you want verifiable proof. You can't have it both ways, big boy. You don't get to fit the rules to fit your arguments.

As an "independent" for about a decade, we enjoyed strong visiting crowds in football ... including Logan's. Steubenville. Beaver Local. Many others. And this came at a time when our football program, in general, was struggling. Why did we get those crowds? Because those are winning football teams who traditionally travel well. This isn't a daggone competition to prove that Logan is better than anyone else we host here. The bigger issue is the poor crowds we see from the OTHER league schools. Some of it is the 2-3 hour drives, some of it is because their football programs aren't very good and the casual fan isn't going to make those trips to watch.

And yes, there were Steubenville people on OUR side of the field. But hey, that's just a wild claim, right? Bottom line -- Steubenville travels BETTER than Logan. When you're winning state championships, your following tends to be large.

Now the ball is in your court. Prove to me we don't travel well for football. As I remember it, in 2006, we brought a pretty decent-sized crowd to Logan on a damp night, with a couple of our star players injured, and the team struggling. But I know, I know. YOU say it wasn't a good crowd, so it mustn't have been. While they have no credibility in your world, I'd ask the folks from Marietta, Warren and Ironton if they were satisfied with the number of fans we brought to their venues. I'd bet we were one of the larger SEOAL contingents this past fall.

Also, you want to cast the aspersion that this move to leave the SEOAL is solely at the discretion of our AD, who also happens to be our boys basketball coach. This decision was not made by one person. It is about finances, and the projections that expenses are only going to get worse, not better. But since you have deemed it "smoke," it must be. After all, everyone in SEOP-Land should understand that it is whatever YOU say it is.

I think I speak for quite a number of posters here that we're tired of your Logan-centric schtick. You act as if no other poster for any other school in this league has a right to an opinion, especially one that doesn't dovetail with yours.

But I'll tell you this right now -- when it comes to ZANESVILLE athletics, YOU should not be telling ME that I don't know what I'm talking about. You have no clue other than your esteemed OPINION.

Lastly, once again you take a thinly veiled shot at our football stadium, and its amenities. We are in the process of launching a campaign that will raise $1.5 million for a total renovation over the next five years. That will include an artificial surface, a new track, upgrades to lighting, a new scoreboard and sound system, and either a new or refurbished pressbox. Oh, and new visitors bleachers (more than 2,000 seats, with wheelchair spaces) as well as a new concession/restroom facility on that side of the stadium. All private money. If you're lucky, Logan will still be on our schedule when it's complete, so you can come visit and then tell us how we screwed it all up.

BTW ... while you're hanging out around town ... perhaps you should ask Mr. Dunn how he went about breaking that news story Wednesday night. Pretty doggone underhanded, if you ask me (but what do I know; I've only spent about 20 years or so working as a journalist ... I have no credibility).

[GAHS7462]

U the Man ZV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Army]

First of all, here is the complete story as it appeared in our newspaper this morning, with quotes from our girls basketball and football coaches.

http://www.zanesvilletimesrecorder.com/ ... /801180302

Now, please forgive me for the bandwidth I'm about to chew up.

2old ...

You never fail to amaze me. You seem to believe that whatever garbage you post on here that everyone else should accept at face value as fact, yet when someone outside your kingdom does the same, you want verifiable proof. You can't have it both ways, big boy. You don't get to fit the rules to fit your arguments.

As an "independent" for about a decade, we enjoyed strong visiting crowds in football ... including Logan's. Steubenville. Beaver Local. Many others. And this came at a time when our football program, in general, was struggling. Why did we get those crowds? Because those are winning football teams who traditionally travel well. This isn't a daggone competition to prove that Logan is better than anyone else we host here. The bigger issue is the poor crowds we see from the OTHER league schools. Some of it is the 2-3 hour drives, some of it is because their football programs aren't very good and the casual fan isn't going to make those trips to watch.

And yes, there were Steubenville people on OUR side of the field. But hey, that's just a wild claim, right? Bottom line -- Steubenville travels BETTER than Logan. When you're winning state championships, your following tends to be large.

Now the ball is in your court. Prove to me we don't travel well for football. As I remember it, in 2006, we brought a pretty decent-sized crowd to Logan on a damp night, with a couple of our star players injured, and the team struggling. But I know, I know. YOU say it wasn't a good crowd, so it mustn't have been. While they have no credibility in your world, I'd ask the folks from Marietta, Warren and Ironton if they were satisfied with the number of fans we brought to their venues. I'd bet we were one of the larger SEOAL contingents this past fall.

Also, you want to cast the aspersion that this move to leave the SEOAL is solely at the discretion of our AD, who also happens to be our boys basketball coach. This decision was not made by one person. It is about finances, and the projections that expenses are only going to get worse, not better. But since you have deemed it "smoke," it must be. After all, everyone in SEOP-Land should understand that it is whatever YOU say it is.

I think I speak for quite a number of posters here that we're tired of your Logan-centric schtick. You act as if no other poster for any other school in this league has a right to an opinion, especially one that doesn't dovetail with yours.

But I'll tell you this right now -- when it comes to ZANESVILLE athletics, YOU should not be telling ME that I don't know what I'm talking about. You have no clue other than your esteemed OPINION.

Lastly, once again you take a thinly veiled shot at our football stadium, and its amenities. We are in the process of launching a campaign that will raise $1.5 million for a total renovation over the next five years. That will include an artificial surface, a new track, upgrades to lighting, a new scoreboard and sound system, and either a new or refurbished pressbox. Oh, and new visitors bleachers (more than 2,000 seats, with wheelchair spaces) as well as a new concession/restroom facility on that side of the stadium. All private money. If you're lucky, Logan will still be on our schedule when it's complete, so you can come visit and then tell us how we screwed it all up.

BTW ... while you're hanging out around town ... perhaps you should ask Mr. Dunn how he went about breaking that news story Wednesday night. Pretty doggone underhanded, if you ask me (but what do I know; I've only spent about 20 years or so working as a journalist ... I have no credibility).

Good Post