Nelsonville-York (7-1) 14; Athens (7-1) 13

[Orange and Brown]

http://athensnews.com/editorial/blogs/high-school-sports-scene/29341-some-thoughts-from-another-big-week-in-high-school-football

and experienced Nelsonville-York team.

Uh. Define "experienced" please. As a program, NY has more experience with these situations. As a team (the word used above) Athens is more experienced than Nelsonville-York.

I think it was meant as saying that our program has more experience.

[NY BUCKS]

Nice article. I noticed in the picture that #65 is just a sophomore clearing the way for the TD. NY had a center at 170 the guard at 170, their running backs out weigh the lineman and the last 10 yards they run it right up the gut at Athens strongest players. That is determination! The Bulldogs have put Athens football back on the map. They need to replace almost everyone on O and D but they will have a lot of kids out with the success they have had this season.
The Buckeyes play like a bunch of Devil Dogs when their back is against the wall. When I heard the final and found out how they fought back in this game against all odds, this term popped into my head. Any old Marines out there will understand what I am talking about.

"The term "Devil Dog" has its origins at Belleau Wood. It was in a dispatch from the German front lines to their higher headquarters explaining the current battle conditions that described the fighting abilities of the new, fresh Americans as fighting like "Teufel Hunden" or "Hounds from Hell."

They might be the Buckeyes but to me those players have earned the name Devil Dogs from me.

Your post gave me cold chills.

[93Bulldog]

Wow .. nice picture ... I had no view of a fumble - but if high schools has instant replay - im guessing that one gets overturned ... his knee isn't even down, its on top of his own player with the ball on the ground.

BUT ... There may be fancy "loud speakers" for the refs at R. Basil Rutter Field - but last time I checked - no instant replay - only thing Athens can do is 'wait till next year'

[Orestes]

Wow .. nice picture ... I had no view of a fumble - but if high schools has instant replay - im guessing that one gets overturned ... his knee isn't even down, its on top of his own player with the ball on the ground.

BUT ... There may be fancy "loud speakers" for the refs at R. Basil Rutter Field - but last time I checked - no instant replay - only thing Athens can do is 'wait till next year'

Well, the knee being down was never the issue. He just needed to get some portion of that ball over the slightest portion of the white line before losing possession. See the smaller pic above, where he still has it.

Since the call on the field was TD, it would need to be indisputable evidence to overturn. That means the ref would have to have zero doubt that none of that ball was over the very front of the white line.

I don't see how that could be overturned.

[koondoger]

So much for those who said Athens should have never been let in the TVC cause they would dominate. Well maybe in other sports, but all I see them doing in football is providing a bunch of playoff points for NY.


Just my thoughts guys!

[93Bulldog]

They did provide NY with a lot of points (which I'm still glad at least one Athens County team) has a chance at week 11 success .... given NY doesn't get beat Friday @ Ironton and possibly drops below the (4th) seed and has to travel to a columbus academy or something ...

But in terms of the TVC thing ... Its only year two and not only did Athens win the all-sports trophy last year - they will have earned a COMPLETE SWEEP of the fall sports in '09 ... A FOOTBALL TVC TITLE (yea, its shared but both teams recieve flags or banners for winning the league), a VOLLEYBALL title, CROSS COUNTRY titles in boys and girls and they won the GOLF title ... Not sure if Tennis and Soccer have TVC crowns, but if they do, the Bulldogs definitly won those too cause the teams appeared to never lose in the paper ...

I think that is what folks were refereing to when not liking Athens in the TVC ... AND, I believe there are 5 other schools besides NY & Athens in the Ohio Division ... Im guessing ALEXANDER, VC, WELLSTON and MEIGS weren't real happy about getting crushed this season on the gridiron by Athens. And lets not forget, Athens 'threw' away two losses to NY - we could just as easily be talking about a 2-0 sweep over the 'Bucks as we are about NY sweeping Athes thus far ...

I can see where the 'Na sayers' aren't real happy about A-town in the TVC - it has only been 14 + months since the first TVC game was played and Athens already has an ALL SPORTS TROPHY (for the first 12 months) and a dominate sweep in the fall sports in '09 ... that just seems a little more 'symbolic' to the big picture than some computer points that may not have that much effect anyway if NY losses Friday at Ironton.

[NYBuckeye96]

There is no tennis or soccer championships in the TVC.

Athens is the only school with boys tennis.
Athens and Vinton County are the only schools with girls tennis.
Athens, Alexander, and Belpre are the only schools with soccer.

Girls Cross Country, while it is recognized as a league sport and has a league championship involved, it does not count in the all sports trophy standings because there aren't enough schools who have enough girls play the sport to earn a team score. This year, only Athens, Vinton County, and Meigs had enough girls participate to earn a team score.

I still need the final league standings for all teams in golf and volleyball by the way, if anyone has them.

[King of Kings]

I know people are sick of hearing this, but Athens should win the league in every sport, every year. They are a Division 2 school basically playing D4 and D5 for league titles. Logan is a D2 school as well, that is who Athens should be competing against. Same amount of kids, same amount of sports. When you are a D2 school and the biggest game of the year comes down to D5 NY it looks like Athens took the easy way out. Instead of challenging themselves in their previous conference they elected to play against smaller schools. Its kind of like Indiana leaving the Big Ten and beating college teams in the OVC(DIII) and beating on their chest about how good they are. Well if NY keeps being a thorn in the side of Athens in football they could always join the TVC Hocking and play D6 schools.

[C A D]

I know people are sick of hearing this, but Athens should win the league in every sport, every year. They are a Division 2 school basically playing D4 and D5 for league titles. Logan is a D2 school as well, that is who Athens should be competing against. Same amount of kids, same amount of sports. When you are a D2 school and the biggest game of the year comes down to D5 NY it looks like Athens took the easy way out. Instead of challenging themselves in their previous conference they elected to play against smaller schools. Its kind of like Indiana leaving the Big Ten and beating college teams in the OVC(DIII) and beating on their chest about how good they are. Well if NY keeps being a thorn in the side of Athens in football they could always join the TVC Hocking and play D6 schools.

I would double check your numbers. OHSAA has Logan listed with 921 students and Athens 685, looks like 236 more bodies walking the halls to me. I think our move to the TVC will prove to be a good choice for both Athens and the TVC.

[koondoger]

I know people are sick of hearing this, but Athens should win the league in every sport, every year. They are a Division 2 school basically playing D4 and D5 for league titles. Logan is a D2 school as well, that is who Athens should be competing against. Same amount of kids, same amount of sports. When you are a D2 school and the biggest game of the year comes down to D5 NY it looks like Athens took the easy way out. Instead of challenging themselves in their previous conference they elected to play against smaller schools. Its kind of like Indiana leaving the Big Ten and beating college teams in the OVC(DIII) and beating on their chest about how good they are. Well if NY keeps being a thorn in the side of Athens in football they could always join the TVC Hocking and play D6 schools.

I would double check your numbers. OHSAA has Logan listed with 921 students and Athens 685, looks like 236 more bodies walking the halls to me. I think our move to the TVC will prove to be a good choice for both Athens and the TVC.

Yes but I think his point is D2 is D2. They put them in divisions for a reason. A D2 school that plays only one D2 opponent, and the rest smaller, is the main point here. Also I think there are some people in Nelsonville that would take offense to someone saying "Athens 'threw' away two losses to NY." The games were played and WON by N-Y. So essentially, Athens has put together one of the best groups of talent they have ever had on a football team and still lost to N-Y. This is an N-Y team with most everyone back next year. So I don't think it will be any time soon that Athens dominates the TVC in football.

[King of Kings]

I know people are sick of hearing this, but Athens should win the league in every sport, every year. They are a Division 2 school basically playing D4 and D5 for league titles. Logan is a D2 school as well, that is who Athens should be competing against. Same amount of kids, same amount of sports. When you are a D2 school and the biggest game of the year comes down to D5 NY it looks like Athens took the easy way out. Instead of challenging themselves in their previous conference they elected to play against smaller schools. Its kind of like Indiana leaving the Big Ten and beating college teams in the OVC(DIII) and beating on their chest about how good they are. Well if NY keeps being a thorn in the side of Athens in football they could always join the TVC Hocking and play D6 schools.

I would double check your numbers. OHSAA has Logan listed with 921 students and Athens 685, looks like 236 more bodies walking the halls to me. I think our move to the TVC will prove to be a good choice for both Athens and the TVC.

1 8-0 902 Louisville Louisville 22.1375 41.5 169.5 100 clinched playoff spot 34.4000 31.2000 27.3000 23.1000 100
2 8-0 888 Logan Logan 21.2875 43.5 158.5 100 control own destiny 32.1500 27.6500 27.0500 21.6500 100
3 7-1 1544 Dresden Tri-Valley 17.4875 33.5 133.0 100 . 23.5500 21.3000 21.1000 18.9000 100
4 6-2 258 Columbus Brookhaven 16.7270 33.0 123.5 98 control own destiny 24.0949 22.8704 20.3918 18.0959 98
5 5-3 1342 Columbus St Charles 15.3418 26.0 118.5 98 . 27.4786 21.1520 19.9980 14.6918 98
6 8-0 1106 New Philadelphia New Philadelphia 14.7250 39.0 98.5 100 . 25.6000 21.5000 19.6000 15.6000 100
7 6-2 962 Columbus Marion-Franklin 14.3125 32.5 102.5 100 . 22.3000 18.7000 18.9000 14.4000 100
8 6-2 1211 Lewis Center Olentangy Orange 14.2625 32.5 102.0 100 . 25.2000 20.7000 19.6000 14.0000 100
9 6-2 1612 Columbus Walnut Ridge 13.5625 32.5 95.0 100 . 21.8000 18.4000 17.2500 14.8500 100
10 6-2 302 Canal Winchester Canal Winchester 11.5750 29.0 79.5 100 . 21.2500 18.2000 15.8500 11.7500 100
11 7-1 144 The Plains Athens

If you look closely, The Plains Athens(11) is in the same region and division as Logan. Thus, my comparison that Athens should be trying to compete with Logan(2) instead of a D5 school NY. While it should prove useful to Athens to move into the TVC because they are at least 2 divisions higher than most teams I doubt it prove useful to some of the smaller teams in the league in most sports. NY in basketball and baseball for example. D2 is D2 regardless of how you want to explain differences in numbers of boys in hallways. Your statement only helps to prove my point. Athens has 685 students in the halls much more than the rest of the TVC Ohio and that includes Vinton County being D3.

[Orange and Brown]

I know people are sick of hearing this, but Athens should win the league in every sport, every year. They are a Division 2 school basically playing D4 and D5 for league titles. Logan is a D2 school as well, that is who Athens should be competing against. Same amount of kids, same amount of sports. When you are a D2 school and the biggest game of the year comes down to D5 NY it looks like Athens took the easy way out. Instead of challenging themselves in their previous conference they elected to play against smaller schools. Its kind of like Indiana leaving the Big Ten and beating college teams in the OVC(DIII) and beating on their chest about how good they are. Well if NY keeps being a thorn in the side of Athens in football they could always join the TVC Hocking and play D6 schools.

I would double check your numbers. OHSAA has Logan listed with 921 students and Athens 685, looks like 236 more bodies walking the halls to me. I think our move to the TVC will prove to be a good choice for both Athens and the TVC.

1 8-0 902 Louisville Louisville 22.1375 41.5 169.5 100 clinched playoff spot 34.4000 31.2000 27.3000 23.1000 100
2 8-0 888 Logan Logan 21.2875 43.5 158.5 100 control own destiny 32.1500 27.6500 27.0500 21.6500 100
3 7-1 1544 Dresden Tri-Valley 17.4875 33.5 133.0 100 . 23.5500 21.3000 21.1000 18.9000 100
4 6-2 258 Columbus Brookhaven 16.7270 33.0 123.5 98 control own destiny 24.0949 22.8704 20.3918 18.0959 98
5 5-3 1342 Columbus St Charles 15.3418 26.0 118.5 98 . 27.4786 21.1520 19.9980 14.6918 98
6 8-0 1106 New Philadelphia New Philadelphia 14.7250 39.0 98.5 100 . 25.6000 21.5000 19.6000 15.6000 100
7 6-2 962 Columbus Marion-Franklin 14.3125 32.5 102.5 100 . 22.3000 18.7000 18.9000 14.4000 100
8 6-2 1211 Lewis Center Olentangy Orange 14.2625 32.5 102.0 100 . 25.2000 20.7000 19.6000 14.0000 100
9 6-2 1612 Columbus Walnut Ridge 13.5625 32.5 95.0 100 . 21.8000 18.4000 17.2500 14.8500 100
10 6-2 302 Canal Winchester Canal Winchester 11.5750 29.0 79.5 100 . 21.2500 18.2000 15.8500 11.7500 100
11 7-1 144 The Plains Athens

If you look closely, The Plains Athens(11) is in the same region and division as Logan. Thus, my comparison that Athens should be trying to compete with Logan(2) instead of a D5 school NY. While it should prove useful to Athens to move into the TVC because they are at least 2 divisions higher than most teams I doubt it prove useful to some of the smaller teams in the league in most sports. NY in basketball and baseball for example. D2 is D2 regardless of how you want to explain differences in numbers of boys in hallways. Your statement only helps to prove my point. Athens has 685 students in the halls much more than the rest of the TVC Ohio and that includes Vinton County being D3.

I think this somes it up pretty well!!!!!


The TVC voted Athens in and the TVC and Athens are the only people who need to worry about weather Athens should be in the TVC or not!!

[koondoger]

I have no problem with Athens being in the TVC at all. Matter of fact, I am glad they are in. That way we don't have to hear the excuse, "but we have to play Logan, Jackson, Ironton etc..." for reasons why they can't beat the TVC Ohio Division teams in football. Yes they have beaten all but one of them so far this year. But like I said before, this is one of Athen's best years in football history. Incidentially, they probably won't win it in basketball either.

Just my thoughts guys!

[93Bulldog]

1st of all ... Meigs, Vinton County and Athens have been in the same Southeast District hoops division for quite some time.

Football is the only sport with disparity and Athens is like 3 or 4 kids over being D-III this year (which they had been since 2003) and will most likely be back in D-III the next time they count, the same as VC.

BUT ... HERE IS MY ARGUMENT FOR THE RIDICULUS THINKING THAT 'DIVISION' STATUS ACTUALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE - WHICH IT ABSOLUTLY DOES NOT.

Sure Athens has a few more 'boys' in the school, but that makes no difference to how good a football team should or should not be ... Divisions were set up to keep the Cleveland Glenville's from having to play the Ironton's in the state championship. (not to mention it allows 6 different teams to be champions and 24 teams scheduled to head to Canton each year, which is a huge economic boost to that region) ... But when it comes to Southeastern Ohio, the only NUMBER that matters is how many BOYS are wearing jerseys Friday night and how many 'BOYS' play the sport of football.

Athens is and always has been a unique situation ... its football program has been in shambles, plagued by years of losing seasons one after another - and can't be viewed as a D-II football team. If you happen to look up and down the sidelines each week, Athens doesn't have any more boys playing football than the next team in Southeastern Ohio ... Actually, Athens had 44 kids on the roster to start the season. NY had 55! How in the hell does Division status play into the equasion of who wins that game? It doesn't. Nelsonville and Buchtel are like 10 minutes from the Plains, Chauncey and Athens ... Are those kids and their parents that much different than the kids and parents form Athens? I mean, since Athens is a big, bad D-II school, are its kids born 10 LBs heavier and grow 4 inches taller? No. If anything, the heritage and tradition alone gives NY the edge over Athens on a year-to-year basis on the gridiron.

When you offer as many boys sports as Athens does, it presents more attrition to the football program than anyone can imagine ... Soccer takes 50-60 boys every year at least, the Golf team has 7 or 8 athletes, the tennis team takes boys away, and cross country is very popular at Athens ... Now you have basketball and wrestling taking kids away as well ... then you have all the other 'extra curicular activities' at Athens that aren't as important it seems at other Southeastern Ohio schools ... Drama club and acting has been a big deal at Athens for the longest time (it took our best tailback when I played in the early 90's), Band is still there and the 'Liberal' ideology that the University seems to have inflicted on the area has always hurt athletics at Athens high school. (Academics takes a more important role as seen with the "one 'F' and you can't play rule" that took lot's of good athletes off the field over the years .... the "Im too good for sports and I would rather hang out uptown on court street with the college students" type kids ... it all ties back to the University making Athens more unique than all the other schools in this area besides maybe Marietta. (which share a lot of similarities as Athens)

So back to the Division debate ... Athens being D-II doesn't make a hill-of-beans on wheather or not they should be beating these teams from Southeastern Ohio ... Athens has 44 kids playing football, Nelsonville-York 55, Meigs has 46, Wellston 43, even Alexander has 40 kids ... that is the "REAL' number that matters most. When Athens begins fielding a team that resembles NY on the sideline each week, then that Division status might have basis for argument - but as long as their roster is no bigger than the next guy, it has no merit at all.

Now, I wish the D-II thing really did have an impact with Athens - that means we would have like 60 boys playing football every year and things would be different - but the fact is it does not. With all the losing and all the attrition Ryan Adams had to deal with and still deals with makes what he has done that much more impressive ... Same goes for Sean Arno in Albany. What they have done to revearse the 'thinking' and provide a respectable product to watch and cheer for every Friday night is down right amazing

To sum things up - when you play a West Virginia team - you get DIVISION III level points no matter who the opponent is ... that philosophy should almost be directed toward all the Southeastern Oho schools as well ... We don't have the money other schools in Ohio have, our population isn't anywwhere near other districts ... when it comes to football, I don't see a big difference between NY, Meigs, Athens, VC, Alexander and Wellston .. they could all be D-III or even D-IV and it wouldn't matter (its just a number with a letter attached) ... is their a difference with the Hocking schools? Sure. But whatever the Ohio schools are deamed, the Hocking schools are one Division lower.

As long as the Ohio schools all have around 40-50 kids playing football, I would love to hear how Division status should make one team better than the next .... ??????

[King of Kings]

First of all 93 Bulldog I want to say you do an awesome job on the TVC website. Please do not take my post the wrong way, but I do think that the number of kids in a school does play an important role. For instance, Athens has 685 to choose from. That allows them the benefit of having more kids to choose from. Most of the sports you mentioned are also available at many D6 schools in the area. Some D5 even have soccer. This is a percentage and numbers game. Athens has 685 to pick from. To be perfectly honest I am not sure the rest of the numbers, however for arguments sake say Alex is at 400. That is 285 more kids that add not only depth but athleticism to a potentially already good team. It does make a difference and for the record I am glad Athens is in the league it makes it a better league and travel distances are much better. I maintain that the number that matters most is how many potential boys can wear jerseys. It is up to the district to get the best kids out to play football. Every school in Athens county and Meigs counties offer other sports as well as football and play schools relative to themselves. Look at Alex when they were in the TVC Hocking. They competed every year for the title. They are the same Alex now as they were then, but they were a D4 school in a D6 league.

[Orange and Brown]

First of all 93 Bulldog I want to say you do an awesome job on the TVC website. Please do not take my post the wrong way, but I do think that the number of kids in a school does play an important role. For instance, Athens has 685 to choose from. That allows them the benefit of having more kids to choose from. Most of the sports you mentioned are also available at many D6 schools in the area. Some D5 even have soccer. This is a percentage and numbers game. Athens has 685 to pick from. To be perfectly honest I am not sure the rest of the numbers, however for arguments sake say Alex is at 400. That is 285 more kids that add not only depth but athleticism to a potentially already good team. It does make a difference and for the record I am glad Athens is in the league it makes it a better league and travel distances are much better. I maintain that the number that matters most is how many potential boys can wear jerseys. It is up to the district to get the best kids out to play football. Every school in Athens county and Meigs counties offer other sports as well as football and play schools relative to themselves. Look at Alex when they were in the TVC Hocking. They competed every year for the title. They are the same Alex now as they were then, but they were a D4 school in a D6 league.

If you are happy Athens is in the TVC and you think it makes the TVC a better league, then why do you put Athens down for losing?? You can't have it both ways!! We can argue numbers all day long but it really comes down to culture. Athens has been in the dumps for 2 decades in football. They had no fan base, no support. They couldn't find good coaches. It was one thing after another. Athens now has a good coaching staff and a group of young men who are willing to do what it takes to win and they have excited the school district again. The real key is if the fans can stay excited and supportive when they only win 5 or 6 games instead of 9!!
Athens has a really really good coaching staff. They have a school district and fans who are behind there players and coaching staff. Things are only going to get better. The TVC is good for Athens and Athens is good for the TVC.

[koondoger]

Sorry, but that post by 93 bulldog is a bunch of garbage. K of K is exactly right. It is the number of potential boys in the school. If they only counted the boys that play football every team in the state would cut down to the number for D6. That argument makes no sense. Nor does the, we offer more sports, as K of K pointed out. Maybe Athen's coach needs to recruit in his school a little better. Looks like coach Boston has in his school. Athens is D2 no matter how much you deny it. And they have an advantage VC, another D2 school, does not in that they often times get players who are sons of OU coaches. Those players have helped them out plenty. They have divisions for a reason, and it is not just so Ironton doesn't have to play Iggy, or whoever. It's so bigger schools like Athens do not compete in the playoffs against smaller schools like NY. That would be an advantage for Athens. So lose the big man syndrom, cause you may be able to get your buddies in THe Plains to buy your claim, but no way I am buying it. I do agree that you do a great job on the website though. I just disagree with you on this topic.

[Orange and Brown]

Sorry, but that post by 93 bulldog is a bunch of garbage. K of K is exactly right. It is the number of potential boys in the school. If they only counted the boys that play football every team in the state would cut down to the number for D6. That argument makes no sense. Nor does the, we offer more sports, as K of K pointed out. Maybe Athen's coach needs to recruit in his school a little better. Looks like coach Boston has in his school. Athens is D2 no matter how much you deny it. And they have an advantage VC, another D2 school, does not in that they often times get players who are sons of OU coaches. Those players have helped them out plenty. They have divisions for a reason, and it is not just so Ironton doesn't have to play Iggy, or whoever. It's so bigger schools like Athens do not compete in the playoffs against smaller schools like NY. That would be an advantage for Athens. So lose the big man syndrom, cause you may be able to get your buddies in THe Plains to buy your claim, but no way I am buying it. I do agree that you do a great job on the website though. I just disagree with you on this topic.

V.C is D-3

[mr.dude2010]

I have no problem with Athens being in the TVC at all. Matter of fact, I am glad they are in. That way we don't have to hear the excuse, "but we have to play Logan, Jackson, Ironton etc..." for reasons why they can't beat the TVC Ohio Division teams in football. Yes they have beaten all but one of them so far this year. But like I said before, this is one of Athen's best years in football history. Incidentially, they probably won't win it in basketball either.

Just my thoughts guys!

no one cares about basketball anyway you cant blame athens basketball players for having a really bad coach thats why they cant win anything in basketball... and 600some students sounds high it seemed more like 500-550ish to me... either way this year is the biggest theyll be for a long time judging from the elementary numbers and they were voted in unanimously. stop complaining when you lose its annoying.

[mr.dude2010]

and while other schools offer those programs, how many of them actually draw people away from football. the only other school in the ohio with a respectable soccer team has been a traditionally poor football school (Alexander). 93 bulldog is completely right the culture of athens makes fewer people want to play the sport, and athens football has been in a long decline. as it is theyre a small DII school so those extra sports and activities draw more then they do from other schools. Athens should win pretty much every other sport in the TVC because they have more people to choose from, but when you have some of your best athletes choosing soccer and XC over football it weakens your program. plus half of athens is stoners and people who spend most of the year in alt school anyway.