Notre Dame loses star Wide Receiver Michael Floyd

[victor creed]

I KNEW IT!!!!!! sorry peake couldnt resist.

[CLane]

==Undergrad==
Fact #1: Both Michigan and Notre Dame are elite academic institutions.
Fact #2: Notre Dame is much more difficult to get accepted into (and actually attend) than Michigan is....for a few reasons. ex. private school, size, religious affiliation, cost, etc.

EXTREMELY Common Opinion #1: Northwestern is in a class by itself (academically) in the Big 10.
EXTREMELY Common Opinion #2: Notre Dame is a better academic institution all-around than Michigan.
EXTREMELY Common Opinion #3: A degree from Notre Dame is more valuable than one from Michigan.

==Grad School==
VERY Common Opinion: Michigan probably surpasses ND....especially in the major disciplines, Business, Law, and Medicine.

You MIGHT be kidding yourself if you disagree with any of these previous statements.

Oh yeah, one more "fact"........Michigan Football Sucks!!!!!!!!!! .

[seofan_via_dublin]

This has gotten pretty far off topic, but I gotta wonder, CLane, what do you consider elite?

Meaning, how high of a ranking does it take to get elite status in your book?

[therepublican]

Peake: I am glad your good at doing internet searches for numbers..

I am not concerned where ND is in the scheme of stataticians or any school in America...I just don't care. It seems you get really shook up about these things..lol. Nor, did I ever try to compare them to Yale PEAKE "Please lets not make Notre Dame into Yale."

This is about Floyd and his legal troubles. I have tried to keep it to that. Whether you know a lot about the "real world" of whatever, it is miniscule in the scheme of things. Please stop getting off topic.

[therepublican]

Dang it people..CLane..you don't have to explain anything, you just fule the fire. ND, Michigan, OSU, Indiana, all have good academic programs. It doesn't matter...

This is about Floyd? Not academic admissions? For freaking sake, all these universities suck you dry of your money and hold your soul until you pay it back..that is what they have in common.

[Peake]

CLane,

=Undergrad==
Fact #1: Both Michigan and Notre Dame are elite academic institutions.
I don't know how to put this nicely, but you are wrong. I don't know what part of my above post you did not understand, but ummm you are wrong. Michigan is an elite academic institution that is regularly regarded as a top 14 rated program (many are top10) in most professional ranks. Notre Dame is not. Notre Dame is a private school and they rest on their past laurels as an elite academic institution. They, in reality are not. I worked at Duke, and they are not viewed as elite by the people I worked among and not by the people that my wife goes to school with.

Fact #2: Notre Dame is much more difficult to get accepted into (and actually attend) than Michigan is....for a few reasons. ex. private school, size, religious affiliation, cost, etc.
I agree that far less people get into Notre Dame then get into Michigan, but the prestige of the University in not in numbers alone. It is harder to get in because in short they take less people. Simply put. Religious affiliation has nothing to do with nothing. Unless you are an in state student then the cost of attending Michigan undergrad is comparable. The admissions standards are higher at Michigan then at Notre Dame...period. So yes it may be harder to get into due to numbers, but that means nothing about the quality.

EXTREMELY Common Opinion #1: Northwestern is in a class by itself (academically) in the Big 10.
Again you are wrong. Simply put you are basing this on what? Go look at the rankings of all the professional schools, Michigan is on par or above in most areas. Again, I deal have dealt with people from elite academic institutions, and I don't think people think there is a difference between UM and NW at all.
EXTREMELY Common Opinion #2: Notre Dame is a better academic institution all-around than Michigan.
Again you are wrong. I don't know where you are getting this or what you are basing this off of. Look at the rankings, obviously people do not think that. I hate to keep saying this, but after working in admissions at Duke this is a very false statement. Michigan is a far superior academic institution.
EXTREMELY Common Opinion #3: A degree from Notre Dame is more valuable than one from Michigan.
Wrong. I am trying to understand where you are coming up with any of this. Go to any big market and ask them if a Michigan degree is less valuable then a Michigan degree. Prepare for someone to laugh in your face.

==Grad School==
VERY Common Opinion: Michigan probably surpasses ND....especially in the major disciplines, Business, Law, and Medicine.
Probably or does? Please do research before making open ended opinions that are very wrong. Michigan is ranked higher in every category including biz, eng, education, etc. They also surpass them in undergrad as well.

You MIGHT be kidding yourself if you disagree with any of these previous statements.

Still trying to figure out where these common opinions come from. From SEO? From Marietta? From Gallipolis? We have lived and worked in two major midwest markets (Detroit and Chicago), and one in the south (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill) and this is not the common opinion at all.

Oh yeah, one more "fact"........Michigan Football Sucks!!!!!!!!!!

World rankings---notice Michigan above NW, NYU, Johns Hopkins, etc. Notice Notre Dame not in the top 100. http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp

[Peake]

republican,

See we agree

[Peake]

Dubs,

Elite=top 14. That was how it was explained to me while working in admissions at Duke.

Sorry I did this for a year, sold students on prestige and what it really means. I had to do research on markets and perceptions of what really is and isn't. Of course in Columbus you are going to get more OSU grads, etc on other markets. The big markets however are your true judge. They only care about who pumps out the best professionals and who can get the job done. I can tell you that Notre Dame was never really a part of the conversation. Michigan, NW, Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, Princeton, Stanford, Berkley (cal), UChicago, Vandy, NYU, are among or at the top of most lists I have come to find.

[seofan_via_dublin]

US News and World Report 2011 Undergrad College Rankings:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... ities/data

I'll just use the BCS schools, those are the ones that are pertinant to the discussion anyway.
The number ranking is their overall rank.
I'll go through the top 100 in the listing.
#5 Stanford
#9 Duke
#12 Northwestern
#17 Vanderbilt
#19 Notre Dame
#23 USC
t#25 UCLA
t#25 UVA
t#25 Wake Forest
#29 Michigan
#30 UNC
#31 Boston College
#41 Washington
t#45 Texas
t#45 Wisconsin
t#47 Penn St
t#47 Illinois
t#47 Miami
#53 Florida
#57 Syracuse
t#56 Ohio State
t#56 Purdue
t#56 Georgia
t#56 Maryland
#63 Texas A&M
t#64 Clemson
t#64 Rutgers
t#64 Minnesota
t#64 Pitt
t#69 UCONN
t#69 VTech
#72 Iowa
#75 Indiana
t#79 Baylor
t#79 Michigan State
t#79 Alabama
t#79 Auburn
#86 Colorado
t#94 Iowa State
t#94 Missouri

Notre Dame has a 28% acceptance rate, a 98% retention rate, and a 96% graduation rate after 6 years
Michigan has a 50% acceptance rate, a 96% retention rate, and a 89% graduation rate after 6 years.

[seofan_via_dublin]

There are more Fortune 500 CEOs with degrees from Wisconsin than any other BCS school.

So take it for what the prestige is worth.

[Peake]

I saw that Dubs....I thought it was very interesting about Wisconsin in the world rankings as well.

[Peake]

Interesting how ND can be above Michigan considering they are ranked below them in most under grad categories.

[Peake]

LEts face it, it is all about professional school. For most career paths you have to go to professional school.

[CLane]

I'm sorry if going (or continuing) off topic has annoyed anyone. I don't see the problem with it, but I still feel bad...even though I've learned a lot and enjoyed the tangent.

I will stand by both of the facts in my previous post. (remember undergrad only)
Fact #1: Both Michigan and Notre Dame are elite academic institutions.
Let's use the US News... rankings and their research for this one. There are around 4000 post secondary schools in the US. If one is ranked in the top 30, that makes it the 99th percentile. If your definition of elite falls above the 99th percentile in anything, well then I guess you've got me there.

Fact #2: Notre Dame is much more difficult to get accepted into (and actually attend) than Michigan is....for a few reasons. ex. private school, size, religious affiliation, cost, etc.
In general, the statement is true. 29% acceptance rate for ND....50% acceptance rate for UM. In this case, I didn't mention anything academic or "quality" as you put it. As for cost first year: UM is $25K in state/$50K out of state...ND is 40K. You're rebuttal has a little substance here, but per student, ND is more expensive.

As far as opinions go, they are just that, opinions. To answer, "where am i getting this?" or "what am I basing them on?".......Well, I guess from my thoughts and the perceptions gained from those people and the situations that I've encountered. You're life experiences/travels are obviously more extensive than mine, I concede that. I've never lived more than 200 miles from home, always in Ohio....but it is what it is. I'm opened minded though, I like to learn, and to debate hoping to change a preconception...but you're arguments/views haven't swayed me, sorry 'bout that.

I took a poll of people from work asking: "Disregarding any previous forms of bias...Which UNDERGRADUATE (emphasized) program do you feel is more academically prestigious; Michigan or Notre Dame?" Results: 13 for ND....2 for UM. The polled group consisted of 5 PhDs, 2 MS, and 8 BS individuals as far as education level. 3 of the group were of a different nationality. 1 actually has a BS from UM and voted for ND...uh oh. This is some empirical data (solely for myself) that supports an OPINION that I have.

3 of the group added (without request) that their decision would flip/flop when referring to Post Grad in general (which supports another one of my OPINIONS....a little icing on the cake).

[Peake]

You want real evidence.

Duke Law class of 2011- Michigan undergrad-7 ND-0
class of 2012-MIchigan-9 ND-0
class of 2013- Michigan 6 ND-1

Duke Med- Combined classes Michigan 33/ Notre Dame -6

I agree with your analysis of undergrad though I still find it very hard to believe it is a better institution.

From a post grad perspective it isn't even close. Post grad in all reality is mostly what matters (eng, biz, law, med) all of those are all well behind UM. I am not sure how your friends or co-workers are measuring the level of prestige between the two, but I would say if they really feel ND Law is better then UM Law or ND Med is better then UM Med then they know absolutely nothing about how the major markets perceive both schools.

As I previously stated, I worked in admissions, and I can tell you from a first hand perspective with actual factual info that ND grads are not looked at the same as UM grads. I can tell you from a first hand perspective at least in the law field that the three major markets we have lived in don't view Notre Dame as a superior education to Michigan.

Your poll, those phd's etc are from where exactly and in what field? Any of those JD's?

I feel the same way you do about going off subject, but I am not buying that ND produces a superior student because they accept 15,000 less students. The ACT score and overall GPA of the average student at UM is higher then that at ND, only difference, one only takes a few thousand.

I'm opened minded though, I like to learn, and to debate hoping to change a preconception...but you're arguments/views haven't swayed me, sorry 'bout that.

I am pretty sure you are not or you would be open to factual material I have presented.

These are the world ranking of top universities from all over the world, notice that UM is 22nd in the world (above Northwestern as well), while Notre Dame is ranked in the 200-300 range. Michigan is ranked above Notre Dame in every single professional school discipline, I don't know what other fact you need since you are so open minded. When you walk into an interview to be a doctor, lawyer, etc they don't ask what undergrad you went to they say where did you go to law or med school. Anyways, I am done talking about this. Either you are convinced or you are not. This is like me arguing Michigan is better then Yale.
http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp

[Joe Strummer]

I feel the same way you do about going off subject, but I am not buying that ND produces a superior student because they accept 15,000 less students. The ACT score and overall GPA of the average student at UM is higher then that at ND, only difference, one only takes a few thousand.

The information below from the respective school web sites is not in agreement with the above statement:
From: http://admissions.nd.edu/
Meet the 2010 First Year Class
They’re bright

70% are in the top 5% of class
87% are in the top 10% of class
The mid 50% received scores of 1350-1480 on the Math + Critical Reading components of the SAT
The mid 50% have ACT scores of 31-34

They’re involved

90% were involved in community service
75% participated in varsity athletics
43% were active in the performing arts
30% participated in student government

They’re from all over the country—and the world

40%: Midwest
21%: Northeast
11%: West
13%: Southeast
10%: Southwest
4%: U.S. Territories/International

From http://admissions.umich.edu/about/

About Michigan
2010 Freshman Class Profile

30,947 Applications
15,436 Admitted
6,300 Enrolled
Average High School GPA: 3.8
Middle 50th Percentile of the Admitted Class:
ACT Composite of 28-32
ACT English of 28-34
ACT Math of 28-34
ACT Science 26-32
ACT Combined English/Writing of 27-31
SAT Total of 1960-2200
SAT Critical Reading 620-730
SAT Math 670-770
SAT Writing 640-740
AP and/or IB Credit was granted to over 3000 new freshmen

[therepublican]

http://onefootdown.fantake.com/2011/05/ ... the-table/

This should clear up any of the ambiguity as to Floyd's return. I really really like the approach Coach K has taken on Floyd, I think coaches should take some notes. Please read the article thoroughly and let me know what everyone else thinks about how Floyd's situation is being handled.

I really like that it is "All in or nothing" for Floyd. They required a certain GPA (probably above what he was already doing) to continue. But there are a lot of things he has to do that Coach K won't speak about. I think this is an eye opener for Floyd that no one cares how good he is--if he can't maintain a cetain amount of social maturity he isn't going to last at ND. I also like how coach Kelly pointed out--He isn't going to get Floyd on the field for one year and have him leave to follow the same path he was heading, that is not accomplishing anything on a respectable coaches terms. I think that showes a lot of how coaches "should" think, rather than lets get that star player on the field for one year and then he will be gone..that is all we need out of him.

I am more optomistic as to Floyd's return. I honestly believe that if he gets his off the field issues solved and matures out of it--his on the field psyche is going to be 5 times better than before.

[seofan_via_dublin]

Joe Shad just tweeted that Michael Floyd has been cleared for summer team workouts.

He said that he has not been reinstated, but will be able to work out Pryor to game 1, all summer with the team.

[The General]

Got Terrelle on your mind dubs?...BTW...I am glad as you once stated that OSU has no compliance isssues,no IC issues,and no VEST issues the last 10 years...I dont know what they would do if someone forced them to deal with that. Do you?

[seofan_via_dublin]

ND thread.

Read my posts on other threads, you've been away awhile, but still trolling like usual.