OHIO STATE 21 MICHIGAN 10

[Mikenmike]

Peake I agree with you on Robinson I really like him being on the staff, like you said on the D side of the ball they just do not have the athletes yet. I have a pretty good feeling that we have seen the last of Williams at SS. Next year I would like to see Obi moved to DE as well. Also they need to put Van Bergen back at DE he is to small to be in the middle imo. I would like to see the D look like this

DE's-Roh, Obi/Van Bergen
DT's-Martin, Campbell
LB's-Mouton, Smith(rover like brown plays) and either Fitzgerald/Leach(sp)
Cb's-Warren, Floyd/Turner
FS-Woolfolk
SS-Vlad/Turner

Oh and put Kovacs arse on special teams where he belongs, he can't cover at all.(good tackler though)

[seofan_via_dublin]

That loss to Michigan was against a team that had Braylon Edwards, Jason Avant, Stevie Breaston, Chad Heene, and Mike Hart. Those are all starts in the NFL minus 1 who is now in the NFL. If you are going to try and paint that in a bad light then good luck.

Whoop-de-dooo, you're not striking fear in the minds of any Buckeye fan with that Name dropping.

[Peake]

Come on Dubs---you are reaching now. OSU has owned Michigan as of late, I understand that.

Braylon made the OSU secondary look like swiss cheese in 03 and had over 100 in 04. All three WR's in 03 are now starters in the NFL.

[seofan_via_dublin]

Not reaching at all, when best of the players you mention has 1 win against the Buckeyes,
then it doesn't strike any form of fear into my mind.

I never went into a single game while Braylon was there, saying, man we have got to be concerned with #1

[Peake]

Are you honestly serious? There is no way you were not concerned about a Biletnikoff award winner who had tourched you the previous season for 2 touchdowns and an 80 yard TD that was called back for a phantom hold. He basically took over the Michigan State game and willed UM to victory. If you were not worried about stopping Edwards then you have never been worried about a single UM player. Edwards by most accounts in the 2nd greatest WR to ever play at UM. So did Tai Streets scare you more because he had 3 or 4 wins over OSU?

Eddie George could not beat Michigan (1 win) but he sure scared the heck out of me.

[Peake]

Mike,

Look for Marvin Robinson to play at S some next season as well. He may be the first great S Michigan had had in a long long time.

[seofan_via_dublin]

I wasn't concerned at all about Sir Drops Alot.

He was and still is a talent, but for that game I was concerned with stopping the running game, AS ALWAYS.

Chris Perry had just over 150 and 2 TDs on the nation's best run D in that game, and Braylon benifited heavily from Play Action
and sucking the safties up to help with Run D.

Also, the Buckeyes had Michael Jenkins with a better game than Braylon, and Santonio Holmes with a game that was just as good.

As for 2nd best ever at UM, I'd take several over him if I'm making a team based on UM recievers.

[Peake]

We will have to agree to disagree.

If Jenkins is even close to Braylon I will do flips and hand stands in front of the Horse Shoe.

Jenkins had one 1000 yard rec year---Braylon had three.

Jenkins recorded 16 TD's in his career---BRaylon had 39 (Big Ten Record)

Jenkins was never an All Big Ten wideout (1st team)---Braylon was All Conferene 3 years (MVP 04) and an All American twice, Biletnknoff Award.

Braylons state lines read as follows: Career---252 rec (Michigan Record), 3,541 yards (Michigan record), 39 TD's (Big Ten Record), 17 100 yard Rec Games (MR).

Jenkins---165 receptions, 2814 yards, 16 TD's, 2nd team All Big Ten (jr) and HM (Sr).

Holmes was a very good player---no argument. I still would have a difficult time putting him in Braylons league, but whatev.

BTW, 2003--1st TD was a straight dropback then Edwards caught it, broke a tackle, ran over a defender, and then out ran everyone. 2nd TD a straight back drop hits Edwards on a slant TD. Should have been 3rd TD---straight drop back 80 yard bomb.

There is no benefiting from play action---Edwards simply beat his man on all three TD's. So yes keep reaching.

[Orange and Brown]

We will have to agree to disagree.

If Jenkins is even close to Braylon I will do flips and hand stands in front of the Horse Shoe.

Jenkins had one 1000 yard rec year---Braylon had three.

Jenkins recorded 16 TD's in his career---BRaylon had 39 (Big Ten Record)

Jenkins was never an All Big Ten wideout (1st team)---Braylon was All Conferene 3 years (MVP 04) and an All American twice, Biletnknoff Award.

Braylons state lines read as follows: Career---252 rec (Michigan Record), 3,541 yards (Michigan record), 39 TD's (Big Ten Record), 17 100 yard Rec Games (MR).

Jenkins---165 receptions, 2814 yards, 16 TD's, 2nd team All Big Ten (jr) and HM (Sr).

Holmes was a very good player---no argument. I still would have a difficult time putting him in Braylons league, but whatev.

BTW, 2003--1st TD was a straight dropback then Edwards caught it, broke a tackle, ran over a defender, and then out ran everyone. 2nd TD a straight back drop hits Edwards on a slant TD. Should have been 3rd TD---straight drop back 80 yard bomb.

There is no benefiting from play action---Edwards simply beat his man on all three TD's. So yes keep reaching.

Great stats!!!
Stats don't mean squat when you lose!

[Peake]

Actually the game I am talking about Michigan won, so......

When you are comparing skill players, the whole score thing means little. Braylon had a good game in defeat in 04.

[mister b]

Honestly, I thought OSU looked very pedistrian vs UM. Much like they did against USC and Purdue.

The 5 turnovers killed UM. UM had a pass picked off at the 6 yard line and another at the goal line. They moved the ball against OSU strength but couldn't finish. Roundtree had a great game against OSU.

OSU offense only scored 2 TDs, the defense got the other.

Yes, JT did what he needed to beat UM but it certainly wasn't the domination like last year's win. I think this is what surprised many.

[Orestes]

Overall, Edwards was better. However, if I needed faith in someone in the clutch, I take Jenkins. He had so many clutch grabs it was ridiculous. He also never dropped the football when he was needed the most. Stats for WRs are deceiving because they rely on the number of pass attempts.

As Cris Carter says when talking to kids at Aquinas "At O-State, you'll do a lot of blocking and not catch a lot of balls, but afterward you'll thrive in the league."

[Bleeding Red]

Overall, Edwards was better. However, if I needed faith in someone in the clutch, I take Jenkins. He had so many clutch grabs it was ridiculous. He also never dropped the football when he was needed the most. Stats for WRs are deceiving because they rely on the number of pass attempts.

As Cris Carter says when talking to kids at Aquinas "At O-State, you'll do a lot of blocking and not catch a lot of balls, but afterward you'll thrive in the league."

Hopefully with Carter helping St Thomas Aquinas, it will make that high school a pipeline for Florida talent brought to Columbus for the next few years.

[dazed&confused]

I know this is a OSU/Michigan thread but If OSU plays like they did against Michigan in the Rose Bowl, Oregon (likely opponent) will gash them.

[mister b]

I know this is a OSU/Michigan thread but If OSU plays like they did against Michigan in the Rose Bowl, Oregon (likely opponent) will gash them.

I agree and this is something OSU and the Big Ten does not need.

[Orestes]

Meh. OSU sat on the ball and watched UM beat themselves. UM had to play a risky game to even have a chance. The enormous amount of turnovers were not new to this UM team, and JT knew it. It's no coincidence that OSU scored two touchdowns immediately after Michigan's two scores. Hmmmm...

I would also like to say that in 85% of OSU's wins under JT OSU has looked very "pedestrian." My dog learns such repetitive outcomes better than most people apparently.

It's especially funny that the same watchdog who was warning that OSU had a good shot at losing to Michigan is now talking down about OSU for winning by double digits.

[marshallman]

Anytime you beat Michigan by 1 or 100 its a good day in Ohio and my house too.
The reason for the boring win was 4 (3 and outs) in a row, 70 yards passing and not blowing Michigan off the map which we all wanted. Pryor did throw two long bombs and we seen what happened, WR was opened by 5 yards and he over threw them.
Michigan has zero running attack. The QB's strike no fear in me for next year. One can't run and the other can't throw. Here is something for all you Michigan fans to think about for next year since you are not going to a bowl, again:
4 starters on the O-line is back, all the starting RBs are back, all the starting WRs are back and Pryor is back. They lose 1 starter on the line and the TE. 9 starters back

On Dee- they will return 4 on the line, 2 LB, and 2 DBs so 8 starters back. Bucks gain all this practice time for the younger players in bowl prep which will be valuable teaching time as Michigan sits and does nothing. "The Game" is at the shoe next year so that will be an even bigger loss and #7 in a row. The goal is 10 in a row now for Buckeye nation then we may throw you a bone just out of sympathy for the rivalry. Also, Michigan may get sanctioned by the NCAA, who knows where this will go?
Ohio State will win the BCS National Championship next year- mark it down!

[seofan_via_dublin]

Actually the game I am talking about Michigan won, so......

When you are comparing skill players, the whole score thing means little. Braylon had a good game in defeat in 04.

Peake, I mention that Holmes and Jenkins had as good of a game in 03 as Edwards, and you go and compare career stats,
then when someone mentions the losses, you go back to the single game reference.

You can't argue out of both sides of your mouth.

In the 03 game, Edwards played well, had 130 yards on 7 catches and 2 TDs,
and 87 yards and both TDs came on two plays in the first half. In the second half, he was of no circumstance at all.

Jenkins though, had 8 catches for 132 yards,
and Holmes had 9 catches for 121 yards and 2 TDs.

Edwards was far from the standout receiver of the game.

The game was won, on the back of Chris Perry. If the Buckeyes could have held him to 75 yards (more of what they did all year on D)
then the Wolverines have the ball for less time, score less points, and allow the Buckeye O to get more production.
And most importantly, Tress would be 9-0, instead of 8-1.

[mister b]

While UM does have a knack for turning the ball over or putting it on the ground, they have still won games inspite of it. They put the ball on the ground 3 times against ND but lost none and only had 1 INT. ND put it on the ground 1 time and lost it with no INTs. Didn't work out so good for the Irish.

Sitting around and waiting on a pedistrain USC team to turn it over didn't work out to good for the Buckeyes as the Trojans had 0 fumbles and 1 INT as they beat the Bucks.

Purdue only lost 1 of 2 fumbles with 2 INTs while OSU lost 3 of 5 fumbles with 2 INTs.

Sometimes, sitting around and waiting for the other team to make a mistake isn't the best of game plans. It can and does backfire.

I am not knocking Tressell as a coach, he is doing a great job with a winning percentage over .800 at OSU. I think what alot of folks want to see is a more dominating team against lesser opponents i.e UM (this year) and Purdue, much like what Florida does to the lesser teams of the SEC.

[Orestes]

While UM does have a knack for turning the ball over or putting it on the ground, they have still won games inspite of it. They put the ball on the ground 3 times against ND but lost none and only had 1 INT. ND put it on the ground 1 time and lost it with no INTs. Didn't work out so good for the Irish.

Sitting around and waiting on a pedistrain USC team to turn it over didn't work out to good for the Buckeyes as the Trojans had 0 fumbles and 1 INT as they beat the Bucks.

Purdue only lost 1 of 2 fumbles with 2 INTs while OSU lost 3 of 5 fumbles with 2 INTs.

Sometimes, sitting around and waiting for the other team to make a mistake isn't the best of game plans. It can and does backfire.

I am not knocking Tressell as a coach, he is doing a great job with a winning percentage over .800 at OSU. I think what alot of folks want to see is a more dominating team against lesser opponents i.e UM (this year) and Purdue, much like what Florida does to the lesser teams of the SEC.

Well, first of all, no way early season OSU beats PSU and Iowa in back-to-back weeks. So, this isn't the same OSU team.

Second of all, OSU did not "sit around and wait" against Purdue. The gameplan that day was anything but conservative. Brandon Saine had 7 carries in that game, and Boom Herron didn't play. OSU put the ball in Pryor's hands, and we was free to make plays. Instead, OSU turned the ball over several times and lost.

After that game, JT went back to the RB-based power offense, and was very conservative. It righted the ship, and won OSU an outright Big 10 title and another win over Michigan.

JT wasn't playing with Notre Dame's joke of a defense. He also didn't have a MAC team on the field. He knew that if the D stayed back, didn't give up big plays, and the O took care of the ball, OSU wins. He was right. I was never worried, and I usually freak out during games. It was clear that JT was very comfortable.