Toledo vs. Michigan

[Orestes]

Sorry, but 6-1 isn't 2-4. In the past, OSU has lost loads of players and they have changed coaching staffs. Look at what they replaced from 06 to 07.


Everyone does realize that OSU will return 8 defensive starters next season, and that during the Wisconsin and Purdue games OSU had 4 to 5 true frosh on the field at times. This team is still young, and has become even more so with Brewster and Pryor starting. Also, Beanie had the flu all week last week. He was not himself.


I guess 72-12 since 2002 isn't enough.

[Peake]

I am just curious how a Michigan thread can be turned into an OSU thread in the blink of an eye.

Orestes,
Yes OSU has had coaching staff changes etc, but nothing like UM is going through. Michigan is starting a Frosh QB who has not been in the system. A true freshman at runningback, slot, and wideout. Aside from one OL, the Oline combined for all of 3 starts.

I am sorry but Greg Matthews and Steve Schilling, the returning starters, are not going to win you much. I don't care if Arrington or Mario were out there, we don't have a QB who can get these guys the ball.

The oline is the real problem as inability to run block. These are all career backups, aside from Schilling.

Marshallman,

You are comparing a terriable haven't had a winning season since 2004 (same year they out played OSU and Marshall wasn't good that year they went 6-6), to a team that is transitioning. Marshall has had four years now to build a team that compete, wow they are an impressive 3-3 at this point. Want to start comparing? How about that same Wisconsin team that smashed you lost to Michigan?!?!?!

You are comparing apples and oranges. Marshall and Michigan. Like comparing a Harvard grad and a high school grad.

BTW, good call on Clemson. I can remember a conversation we had about Texas and Clemson. I remember myself saying something along the lines of how over rated Clemson is and how the underachieve every year and Bowden would be gone. SOmething else along the lines of Texas being a top 5 team, and you said something along the lines of you would bet Texas wouldn't finish in the top 5. How's that going again?

Nice call on the Marshall-UC game as well. I remember me saying something like UC would blow Marshall out at home.

Anyways, enough with the chit chat.

[Just_A_Fan]

No coach as Michigan has came in and put in an entire new O. The people on here callin for Lloyd to come back eed to remember what happen last year, having all the guys we did and still losing to Appy St. @ home. I sorry losing to Toledo dont messure up to losing to Appy St. Also, please fine me another team that has had this little of playing experince. This is how I look at it, we are still 1-1 in the Big Ten and it college football so anything can happen.

Anyword on if Treet is going to play this weekend?

[seofan_via_dublin]

^^^^^^
Is your keyboard missing letters?

Mine has them all, sometimes I fail to put them in the right order though.

[Peake]

G4ever,

I think you need to go back, do a little research, and maybe restructure what you are saying. Losing kids to graduation, and than having players behind them, and than just losing players is something totally different.

RR steped into a team that was unlike the team Bo inherited the year he came in. That team was believed to be playing below there talent level the year before. They also returned 7 starters on offense that year.

Down through the years, a brief history, I look at the players that have replaced departing seniors or early NFL players. Biakabatuka (A-Train shared carries as a Frosh with a senior), A-Train (Chris Perry, who was a RSoph), Perry was replaced by Underwood (Senior) who would soon give way to Hart. Griese was replaced by Brady(Junior) who shared snaps with Henson, Henson would give way to Navarre (Soph who saw time as a frosh when was hurt), and than finally Guiterrez was supposed to take over as a RJr. before injuring his shoulder in August.

There are some missing pieces in this chain. If Mallett would have stayed than I don't think we are talking about a 2-4 Michigan team, but he didn't and all I really care about are the players that want to be at Michigan.

I can't find a single season in the last 20 years where Michigan brought back only two starters on offense, and not to mention they are putting in a new system with mostly freshman and sophs, or backups who have never played.

OSU had a bad year in 2000. Didn't go to a bowl, but also brought back what 13 players who would go onto the NFL in two seasons. There is a HUGE difference.

Are they really going to lose out because they are losing out on say 4-8 million from a bowl??? Are you serious. They are still selling out for a losing team. This is an athletic budget around $ 90 million dollars and you think that they are going to miss a couple million? This isn't a conference USA school, where 4 million means a lot when you are opperating on a 15 million dollar budget.


Want to see light at the end of the tunnel look no further than the Freshman who are macking an impact this season. When you are down the only way to get better is to get better players. McGuffie, Odoms, Stonum, Cissoko, Koger, and Martin have all started or played a major role in the team this season. It will pay off. Michigan's recruiting class for next season has addressed needs. Plenty of talent coming in. The 2010 class could have 5 commits by the end of the month, all of whom are considered top players in the country.

Show me one single successful school who hasn't had a down year in the past 30 years.

[seofan_via_dublin]

First off, to put Rich Rod in the same sentence as Bo, is vastly unfair. They're not on the same level.

Secondly, to compare what they each went through in their first seasons is way off base.

Bo was from an era, and educated in a system, where 90% of the teams in the country ran the same system.
He went into Michigan his first year and, hey what do you know, they power run the ball and play stiff defense.
Bo didn't have to be an outstanding coach in with a revolutionary system. He simply went in and continued to
do what he did with Woody at OSU and at Miami.

Rich Rodriguez was hired into a program that lost it's best skill players and it's top O-Lineman possibly ever.
He quickly lost a second returning starter lineman, and his replacement at QB.
He doesn't run an offensive system that the players at UM have ever ran, he doesn't like to run the traditional
defensive schemes that the players at UM were recruited to play.
And he has to do all of this while playing with a patchwork offense that is in no way, shape, or form, anything like
he would like it to be.

Nearly all Michigan fans knew this would be a tough year. The best most of them were predicting was 8-4.
None of them saw two losses to non-BCS schools coming, and if UM could have hung on to the ball, they
would have beaten Notre Dame. That puts them at 5-1 this year instead of 2-4. Now they cannot go back and change any
of what has happened. They can however learn from mistakes, and get better. Which they undoubtedly will.

Recruiting is everything, Michigan is doing it well. Michigan haters should be less concerned with
what Michigan is doing with their freshman QB situation,
and more worried about why OSU has failed to add a QB to their 2009 class. Pryor is going to be great,
but going into next season, the Buckeyes have 2 QBs on the roster.
What if Pryor gets hurt, you have Bousserman and then nothing.

[Just_A_Fan]

soefan_via_dublin sorry about the typing mistakes, didn't know that my grammer was beening judge like in high school.







I'm just joking by the way. But, I do need to slow down and preview my post before I submit them.

[BigMcCauley55]

wow some besides me getting called on about their spelling.

sweet. its about time

Michigan fans need to lay low chill out enjoy football season then when things are starting to look up well get a little more into it because myself will not be saying GO blue on the UM~OSU topic when it comes on here

[marshallman]

I am just curious how a Michigan thread can be turned into an OSU thread in the blink of an eye.

Orestes,
Yes OSU has had coaching staff changes etc, but nothing like UM is going through. Michigan is starting a Frosh QB who has not been in the system. A true freshman at runningback, slot, and wideout. Aside from one OL, the Oline combined for all of 3 starts.

I am sorry but Greg Matthews and Steve Schilling, the returning starters, are not going to win you much. I don't care if Arrington or Mario were out there, we don't have a QB who can get these guys the ball.

The oline is the real problem as inability to run block. These are all career backups, aside from Schilling.

Marshallman,

You are comparing a terriable haven't had a winning season since 2004 (same year they out played OSU and Marshall wasn't good that year they went 6-6), to a team that is transitioning. Marshall has had four years now to build a team that compete, wow they are an impressive 3-3 at this point. Want to start comparing? How about that same Wisconsin team that smashed you lost to Michigan?!?!?!

You are comparing apples and oranges. Marshall and Michigan. Like comparing a Harvard grad and a high school grad.

BTW, good call on Clemson. I can remember a conversation we had about Texas and Clemson. I remember myself saying something along the lines of how over rated Clemson is and how the underachieve every year and Bowden would be gone. SOmething else along the lines of Texas being a top 5 team, and you said something along the lines of you would bet Texas wouldn't finish in the top 5. How's that going again?

Nice call on the Marshall-UC game as well. I remember me saying something like UC would blow Marshall out at home.

Anyways, enough with the chit chat.

Didn't Florida International beat Toledo like 34-14 this year? Florida Int. is ranked 119th? Toledos De was ranked 104th. Thats your High School team not Wisconsin. WR for Toledo set a record of 20 catches on the dominate De Michigan was suppose to have. He said "I never thought I would have that many catches in little league." Michigan has a new web site called "fire RR" with a count down clock.

[Peake]

Only the idiots who don't actually contribute to Michigan in any way (go to actual games, donate, etc.) would make a website like that. Michigan is down, easy to see. Any other point you tired to make went way over my head

Difference between what JT walked into compared to RR, is that JT walked into a roster full of NFL talent. RR walked into a mess.

[Orestes]

The two seasons previous to RR's 1st season Michigan went 20-6.

The two seasons previous to JT's 1st season Ohio State went 14-10.

Going into the 2001 season, OSU lost their RB, their top 4 WRs, their TE, and three offensive linemen. On defense, OSU had lost 3 of the 4 on the D-line (critical spot), and Nate Clements from the secondary.

The 2001 team returned 4 starters on offense and 7 on defense. 11 total.

This included problems from the previous year in terms of guys being academically ineligible for the bowl game and the idea that OSU had become a NFL stepping stone with little player regard for college team success. Also, Sanders, the TE, left because Cooper was fired. Ryan Pickett may have as well, but he could have gone anyway. JT had them in BCS/Big10 title contention going into the last two games of the season, and a suspended QB prevented it. He had a Friday walkthrough to prepare the new QB.

2008 Michigan returned 3 offensive starters and 7 defensive starters. 10 total.

[seofan_via_dublin]

OSU had better returning talent in 01 than what Lllllloyd left Michigan.

Tressel won his national title, like it or not, with Coopers final guys.

Rich Rod will stuggle to win 10 games in two years with Carr's final recruiting classes.

[seofan_via_dublin]

Please stop making me argue on the side of Michigan fans, I think it's making me ill.

[Orestes]

They sure didn't produce like it in the years preceding the Tressel hire. The starter replacement numbers also do not favor OSU. Anything else is just a guess, and a guess that is easier to make when one is not overly interested in saying much good about Jim Tressel right now. This Michigan offense is no worse than OSU 2001 offense, both in talent and in production (see OSU/UCLA 2001). JT just knew how to manage a football game with a defense.

Also, people point out RR's system change. Well, change in OSU's culture was huge. It was dominated by the Ken-Yon Rambo and Tyson Walter types. Plus, there was a great deal of change in the defensive philosophy. Under Pugac (1996-2000) OSU was a zero-man/blitz always type of defense. In 2001, they became Dantonio's zone/zone-blitz/ bend don't break defense.

I thought I saw a few "Michigan has better talent than anyone in the Big10 but MAYBE OSU" posts. I know I saw some 10 to 11 win season predictions on other sites. I saw "best defense in the Big 10" posts. "Barwis is worth 3 wins alone" posts.

[seofan_via_dublin]

Players Cooper left Tressel after 200 season
Craig Krenzel
Andy Groom
Mike Doss
Nate Clements
Matt Wilhelm
Will Allen
Tim Anderson
LeCharles Bentley
Brice Bishop
Cie Grant
Maurice Hall
Ben Hartsock
Michael Jenkins
Brandon Joe
Donnie Nickey
These guys didn't play like National title winners under Coop, because they saw little action under Cooper.
They were the backups, to very talented players. They got their chance and excelled.
Mike Doss was a huge presence on and off the field during that title run, coming back for his senior year
for the sole purpose of trying to win the national title.

OSU pulled games out of their butts on multiple occasions that year as well, winning close games instead of losing them.
They lose one of those games, and they are out of the title picture.
If not for the Holy Buckeye play, they never get the chance to beat Miami, and the majority of people
on the field for that play, including Krenzel and Jenkins, were Cooper guys.

RR doesn't have those guys in Michigan this season.
When he does, he will win his share of games.

It seems you think I grimace at the thought of a Tressel coached game and team.
You couldn't be further from the truth. You will never find a bigger Tressel fan than me, take that to the bank.
His team is not exicuting though, and one has to call a spade a spade.
Not just cover for him because he's the second coming, which I firmly believe he his.

[Peake]

All great points. I agree with 90% of them. Like I stated, 13 players from the 02-03 OSU team went into the NFL. If I look down the roster I can honestly say Grahm, Jamison, and Trent are the only players who can go onto the next level.

Also, Michigan this season only returns 2 offensive starters, not 3. It could be only 1 if you want to be specific.
Schilling and Matthews or Schilling and Butler, but Butler is no longer a starter.

What JT walked into talent wise was much better than RR. You can look at UM's record and point out the past two seasons, but only two players on offense saw any kind of action in either of those years (matthews and schilling). On the defensive end I honestly can't be too upset when the offense is going backwards 50% of the time, and turning the ball over in their own territory. If the Michigan offense would have moved the ball 50% of the time against Toledo the score would have looked more like 28-9, but they didn't so they deserved not to win.

[seofan_via_dublin]

It's not the Michigan defense that has turned the ball over 5+ times in multiple games.

If the offense could hang on to the ball, we'd potentially be talking about a 5-1 Michigan team.

God I Hate Taking Michigan's Side.

[BigMcCauley55]

It's not the Michigan defense that has turned the ball over 5+ times in multiple games.

If the offense could hang on to the ball, we'd potentially be talking about a 5-1 Michigan team.

God I Hate Taking Michigan's Side.

God says its cool and to keep on doing it because he cant be doing it cuz woody is getting upset.

[Orestes]

It's all Ty Willingha...... oh nevermind....

I take it that Georgia Tech has better talent for Paul Johnson?

[Peake]

GT returned 6 starters on offense, Michigan returned 2.

GT also has a QB to fit the system, Michigan not so much.