Justin Boren Quits UM Team

[seofan_via_dublin]

If you've watched WVU under RR, then you'll notice that after the play on offense the O-Line sprints to the ball
instead of walking to the huddle.

This keeps the defense from substituting, and helps the RR Spread be even more deadly at the end of games.

It also takes a very physically fit O-Line to keep it up all game long.

RR doesn't need the 310 pound guy who can bench 500+, which is what Boren was.

He would rather have a 275-290 pound guy, who can zone block and run late in the game.

Keep in mind that with all of the NCAA guidelines, this past week at Spring practice was the first time that RR really had
a chance to work with his players. His first task is to set the sceen for his players and let them know that the Carr regiem is over.

If Boren couldn't stand the heat, they are better off without him

[Orestes]

I have never been one to praise the Bear Bryant types. Even with Woody it is just the OSU fan thing to do to like him. However, guys who played for him cry when speaking about how much he loved them, so like Bo, he was a Beast but it was constructive and he also praised. Likewise, this is not the 1960's, and things have changed. We have progressed as a people, and no one wants to be verbally assaulted by a coach on a daily basis. Even now Marine drill sergeants are not allowed to curse at their training soldiers.


Like I said before, if RR wins, he will be a God at Michigan. If he doesn't, you will quickly be on here ripping him for losing his talent. He's taking a risk.

Also, let's not exaggerate the Michigan downfall. They have won plenty of Big Ten titles, and played in several Rose Bowls recently. A program in as bad as shape as you have been saying would have been playing PSU-like football.

I'm just discussing, and obviously will see things with an OSU bias. I will admit it.

[Orestes]

From Nevada...who called this a while ago and had the Pryor info:

its NOT the conditioning or the running or the weight lifting...



its the incessant screaming, profanity and verbal abuse that the staff is heaping on the players....



the feeling from a NUMBER of UM players and observors is that this "get tough" approach is quickly backfiring on RR.....



RR is the "anti Tressel".....

[seofan_via_dublin]

The anti-Tressel is just what that team needs though.

The had enough coddling, and feel good times toward the end of the Carr era.

If what they had wasn't working, it needs to change.

The people they recruit up there need to grow a set and learn how to physically abuse their opponets again.

The yelling, and verbal "abuse" coming from RR, is in response to the current athletes not achieving at a level
for conditioning, and strength that they should be.

If the conditioning, running, and wieght lifting were on par with what RR and Michigan should expect, then all Rich would have to do is install a system that has proven to work. Most, not all, of the yelling and profanity would stop or at least be not as previlant.

This kid is a 14 game starter and an upperclassmen, if he can't stand the verbal abuse, then Michigan doesn't need him, and OSU shouldn't want the thin skined brat.

[Peake]

It's not only RR doing the yelling, it's also the position coaches. Like I said, Moller pampered them, and part of this is just fallout from the Carr era. They want the country club attitude, the we're Michigan we should win just because we showed up attitude, than they can go somewhere else.

Fact Boren struggled with the conditioning part of the program.
Fact during position meetings players have an open forum to discuss displeasure or ask questions.
If Boren had a problem he should have made it known.
Fact players including skilled position are STILL struggling with conditioning.

If they can't handle it, than thank you for your time and effort but Michigan is no longer for you.

Why is it that everyone acts as though the only coach in the country that curses is RR. I can say I have been on the field with more than one that cursed players to their face to challenge the player. If they aren't mentally tough enough to handle it, than it is time to leave.

Good story for you concerning emotion of a Michigan starter. Terrance Taylor was demoted after struggling with conditioning and lack of effort in practice, so RR demoted him to second team. Since he has on his own made the effort to regulate his diet, do extra running, and has since been blowing things up.

It is about commitment, either you have it or you don't.

BTW, just for everyone's info, one player has left the team since RR has taken over, and that is Boren. Mitchell, Ciulla, MM, AAir, and Mallett all choose to leave the day of the team meeting. I would say he has done just fine.


Morgan Trent, Donnavon Warren, Obi Ezeh, Will Johnson, Brandon Minor, Greg Matthews, and even Butler who may have been the most undisciplined player on the team have all praised the new staff. Those are the guys that matter, the real leaders.

[Peake]

This was a very interesting letter written to gobluewolverine:

I just wanted to say something about the whole Justin Boren situation. Now I understand that a lot of "Michigan Men" are freaking out about this, or have turned bitter towards this kid, but let me explain how getting rid of these kids that aren't committed to the "new" Michigan regime will benefit us in the long run.

From 2004-2007 I worked for the BYU football team. Gary Crowton was the head coach at BYU when I started working there. Gary Crowton is a really nice guy and a pretty good offensive coach, but he wasn't a very good head coach. His problem was that he was too much of a "player's coach" meaning that he let the kids run the team. The offense loafed around during practice and didn't work hard. Crowton's DC was a young guy named Bronco Mendenhal who believe that you can compensate for lesser talent by working harder than your opponent. So the team was split, the offensive players were lazy, while the defense was hard working and intense. Not only did the defense work harder, they cared a lot more about the game and team.

After the season ended Gary Crowton was fired and BYU hired Bronco Mendenhal as the new head coach. Within a week of announcing Mendenhal as head coach, a handful of players decided to transfer because they didn't like Bronco's "style". Bronco worked his players harder in the offseason than they had ever worked before. When spring practices began 15 players had either transfered or quit the team...15!!!!! Once again they didn't like how Bronco was working them too hard. Bronco's intent was to get rid of all the players that didn't want to be there. He needed and wanted players who would commit 100% to the program and the system. Once he got rid of those players, the team quickly came together and fought for each other. They all knew that everyone was working just as hard as everyone else.

Now I do understant that there is a huge talent disparity between BYU and Michigan, but the results for BYU has been better than expecte. They have gone 11-2 each of the past two years. I attribute their success to Bronco's hard nosed no-nonsense approach with his players. He did not lose any sleep crying over the transfer of the #1 QB prospect in America Ben Olson (UCLA), but focused on his team and prepared his team no matter who was playing. I see RR doing the exact same thing. Michigan needs players who are going to work hard and be 100% committed to his system and work ethic. This transition has been relatively smooth compaired to other coaching changes around the country. We must remember that Michigan hasn't gone through this process for almost 40 years and we all know how that turned out. Go Blue!!

Scott Springer

from mgoblog


BTW, jsut got word that RR schd a sit down meeting with Boren, himself, and Lloyd Carr to try and get him to stay. Boren declined and ended up leaving the program, so if I hear one more time about family atmosphere. THe guy wanted to leave, he is lazy and mentally weak! THe Junction Boys didn't like the way they were treated, but went on to be Champions!

[whodeyAtown21]

The cursing can have an effect on some people's personal/moral convictions though...

[whodeyAtown21]

I really don't see how being cursed at helps you improve any athletic skills whatsoever. Maybe the coach should think of other motivational words than cursing.

[seofan_via_dublin]

And if it does, then he is to thin skined to play hard nosed football in the Big Ten and for Rich Rodriguez.

He plays a position that is the most underhanded, cheat to get any advantage, beat the hell out of the guy across from you position on the field.

If he can't stand to get cused at, then he should go back home and ask mom if she has any milk left.

[Peake]

Only now, I must take exception with Michigan offensive lineman Justin Boren. Earlier this week, Boren said he was leaving Michigan because "family values" he had grown accustomed to had "eroded in just a few months" under new coach Rich Rodriguez.

Before we go further, let's get a few undeniable things out of the way:

• Some players don't like new coaches; some bitch and moan about them.

• Some players persevere, others walk away.

• And some -- the few -- take their ball and whine all the way home.

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is where we find Boren. Coaching changes aren't easy on anyone -- not the coach leaving, the coach hired and most certainly not the players recruited by the previous coach. It is, as much as anything, the first real life experience for college kids.

In the real world, we call this turnover. We have a job, we love our job and now all of a sudden we have a new boss. And the new boss is different.

Not all bosses motivate the same. Some motivate with positive reinforcement, others with fear and still others with goal-oriented benchmarks. Some use a combination of all three.

Now here's what's important: Nearly every new boss is not like the old boss. Boren's comfort zone that felt so easy and so right is now gone. Of course, that comfort zone included losses to rival Ohio State in six of the last seven years.

Rodriguez was hired to win football games; it's just that simple. He was hired to beat Ohio State -- not placate 18-, 19- and 20-year-old kids who don't like change.

Every new coach goes through this; just like every new boss goes through it. It's a process: Weeding out those who don't fit. Some don't like to work hard, some are malcontents.

The big buzz in the first few spring practices at Michigan was offensive linemen adjusting to the no-huddle approach in Rodriguez's scheme. Translation: You're running your ass off.

Those who fall behind will be pushed harder and longer, mentally and physically. That's coaching, people.

Any dime store psychologist will say you can't motivate through fear. Well, a guy named John Wooden -- who won a few championships in his career -- says a coach's best friend is the bench. In other words, play hard or sit.

"I'm not going out there and running people off," Rodriguez told the Detroit News. "I've been running these kinds of practices for 20 years."

Those are the same practices he ran at West Virginia, where his first team in 2001 won three games while working through the transition. Those players were used to Don Nehlen, a Lloyd Carr clone if there ever was one. Both Nehlen and Carr are good men and good coaches, but they lost their ability to motivate players to maximize their abilities.

Listen people, Rodriguez won 32 games over the last three years. You don't do that by coddling your players.

And anyone who watched the Fiesta Bowl three months ago knows that West Virginia team -- when healthy -- would beat any in college football. If you're Michigan, that's what you hold onto.

Not the words of a departing player who took his ball and whined all the way home

[Orestes]

lol @ the internet tough guys.

Anyway, Jim Tressel took over a team that had been 2-10-1 against Michigan, had been facing academic problems, was becoming a NFL factory, and was coming off 6-6 and 8-4. He turned it around, and he did not use RR's tactics. RR's tactics are not necessary, and to say so is just hopeful Michigan positive thinking or old man "back in the old days" thinking. I can understand the Michigan fan thinking, but to agree with RR's tactics as an outsider is simply ridiculous. It has been proven to not be needed, and it simply matches with your own worn out tired ways from the past. People respect each other "these days." Get over it. We are more educated and evolved as a people. As said before, the Marines no longer use profanity with recruits.

Also, where was all this inside info about how bad Michigan's workout program was before last season started? Why were Michigan fans not predicting the bad outcomes of the 2007 season after being 3 points away from the national championship game in the season before? This is all revisionist history, but is understandable because you have to hope.

BTW, the Junction Boys won nothing. Tell that writer to check his history books.

Dub, if Boren comes to OSU, then JT wants him. If JT wants him. I want him. He is a proven winner as a coach, and his family method works. Please never feel good about or applaud Justin Boren if he succeeds at OSU (if he comes to Columbus of course).

Oh, and tell him to get some more of his mother's milk to his face.

How hard is this to understand?

Boren's dad played for and loved Bo.
Bo loved them.
Boren's dad obviously had the situation explained to him.
Boren's dad is behind him.
Obviously, something is different than Bo. Maybe ethics?????

BTW, reports are also coming out that RR cusses out his coaches in front of the team. Though, that is 100% necessary of course. It makes a man out of ya. Puts hair on your chest. You'd be a sissy program otherwise. Only the F-word in the face can get across a point intelligently. No team can win without a practice full of profanity laced verbal attacks. Hell yeah. We're men now. (tongue planted firmly in cheek).

How does Jim Tressel do it? No wonder OSU fans say he is God. He wins without the screaming and yelling.

[Peake]

l

[Peake]

HEre ya go, from someoe who was actually at the practice.

"Family Atmosphere"

There were comments on the player who left ... but we won't hang the dirty laundry.

But re Boren's relative on the radio ... who said there were no positive reinforcements?

Today R-Rod gave out awards - for best workout, for best hustle, for best teammate, for player of the day, for student of the week.

They sang happy b-day, and RRod had cakes, to 2 players, with team-signed b-day cards.

The defense had to do pushups today since they lost ... RR gets down and does them with them.

There were a lot of parents there today ... one staffer had no job but just telling parents where to stand to see plays the best ... and to make sure the families could go up and down the field ... they want the family to understand each play they run ...

They ARE on these guys hard ... but the other non-family-atmoshere stuff ... uh-uh.

Sounds like more fun, not less ...


LEts not forget the etire reasoning behind RR Night of Champions, it was to encourage players for one to get to know all of their teammates. WHAT???? You mean like a family???? To stress accountability in the weight room, in the film room, and in the class room. You win as a team or lose as a team. What?????? You mean like a family???? You mean RR on his Night of Champions night actually had an egg eating contest, you mean he lets them have fun???? WHat???? Like a family??? He actually has the winning team over for dinner each week. What????Like a family! Might want to get all the facts before commenting next time.

[seofan_via_dublin]

If anyone on this board thinks that Coach Tressel has not cussed at a player at OSU, then you are an IDIOT.

I also don't see any of my fellow OSU fans complaining about the way OSU football played or was coached during a certain era from 1951 to 1978.

And if you think Bo Schembechler was all about "Family Values" and not ripping a players butt when needed, then take a look at his mentor and see where he developed his coaching style.

Richrodrigez is closer to Woody Hayes that he is Lloyd Carr. Frankly that's the part that worries me about Michigan in the future.

[BigMcCauley55]

well for starters long time no see Dub and nice post your abosolutely right. no coach is goody goody as people make them to seem. thats what i got out of your post but the problem i have with RR right now is he is trying to turn these boys into something they arent. the michgan line isnt built for hurry up they are built for one play take a breather but that one play usually is them bulldozing a guy and making a huge hole for the RB i think its will be a while until michigan adapts to this new stlye to its fullest but these upperclassmen just dont really like it. RR is a smart coach and he knows what he is doing but i just dont like his descisons he makes and he dosent seem to worry about the players enough i mean he should have seen this coming and try to work it out with Justin. He needs to get all the players on his side and let them know he is there to win and to make them better.

[Peake]

What decisions don't you like? He is helping them to adapt to his new system by killing them with conditoning. If they don't like it than it's time to look elsewhere. Schillng, Ortman, Molk, and Mooseman are all built to run an offense like his.

The days of big fat lineman are over. Look at Jake Long, that kid has no fat aside from his belly. Long could have played in any system in the country. If I were Long I would have been frustrated all season long due to my big fat teammates not working like I do.

The players are on RR side, one player, one, Justin, is the only player thus far who has left the program. Mitchell, Ciulla, Manningham, Arrington, and Mallett were never apart of this team. So one person has choose to leave. RR btw did make an attempt to talk it over with Justin, read all of the posts.

[whodeyAtown21]

Why is everyone attacking him? That's insane. He gets a new coach that is obviously a terrible, human being, when he came to UM under Lloyd Carr, why torture himself by playing under a man with no moral fiber in his bones whatsoever?

[BigMcCauley55]

see peake thats the problem that arent part of the team
i mean Arrington should have stayed he would have finally been out of Mario's shadow and the top Wr for michigan but no he left and i think if he stayed he could have been the cream of the crop. Now Mario leaving i didnt understand fully becuase one he didnt have an outstanding season so he should have came back to leave one better. The 4 and 5 wr sets RR runs helps WR get ready for the NFl because in this offense the WR have to be ready for the ball at any moment because usually the offesense has a dual threat QB like Pat WHite and is on the run sometimes and throws at the last second sometimes. but they are both not here so UM has to move on and count on WR like Matthews who started to shine a lil last season.

and just his attitude toward things bothers me i feel that he wasnt too concerened about players leaving when he got there like Mario and Adrain or they guys that didnt want to commit to UM becasue they didntlike RR they liked Carr. his first problem with me was anticapting Mario and Adrain to leave he expected it and said it on national TV well if i was a coach I and i thought this i would be working my freaking butt off to keep these boys i mean look what Jim does over at OSU how in the world did he get players like Malcom Jenkins who was a top 10 lock to stay or Robiskie or Kirk Barton or James L. OSU had plenty of guys that could have gone and been good in the nfl but they stayed to give it one more year but how did JIm convince them to stay? i dont know but RR needs to find out or he will find himself losing players a year before he has to. but as a coach coaching football i like what he does he turned WVU into something that had not been in a long time and now they get some top recruits because of the sucess.

[Orestes]

Respected Mlive poster named Eyespy has been known to have connections to former UM coaches and current sources as well, and he is posting what he is hearing. I thought it was relevant to the Boren situation. This is not a "hate Michigan thread" but it certainly makes for interesting conversation concerning the current state of the program. Here are few posts:

"Boren is not alone in his reasons for leaving...get ready...more on the way out. RR and his lack of respect for his players is causing major issues in AA."

"From what I heard today, RR and his staff are just awful to these kids. I don't blame anyone who leaves."

"All you guys calling these players sissies and lazy and whatever else...you don't get what is going on. RR has NO respect for these guys - who he NEVER recruited. 3 returning starters on OL have left and more are on the way. Are you saying that if your boss cussed at you day after day, called you names, and belittled you every chance he saw you - you would stay at that job? Don't think so."

"Those f-bombs and name-calling are not isolated incidents. Great - he watches a game with a recruit in a hospital...I didn't say he was an evil killer...he is just going overboard right now and losing players."


And actually, AJ Hawk told me that the JT at the press conferences is the JT at practice. They make fun of him for never cussing. When he rips a player, he is witty in a way that can get under the skin, but they are simple quick comments. If every coach does it, why would Boren leave? Like I said, his dad had experiences with Bo, and still felt his son should leave...read into that what you will....

Tressel: The best phrase describing Coach is: Mentor/Role Model: 35.7% Well Respected: 64.3%

RR: The best phrase describing Coach Rodriguez is: Father Figure: 14.3% Drill Sergeant: 71.4%
Troubled: 14.3%


Look at the rest of the ratings here....


http://www.coachratings.com/rating_result_compare.jsp?cID=40&ccID=59

Player rating:
JT=9.5 out of 10
RR=5.9 out of 10

[Peake]

Ok this will be the last time I post about Justin Boren or the state of UM's Football program that is in week #2 of spring practice.

Please find me something from former players blasting RR for the way he treats them. In his presser yesterday he said the same thing. Find a guy that hasn't left my program and ask him if we aren't a family.

3 offensive starters on the oline have not left under RR watch, one has. Ciulla and Mitchell both left well before the first team meeting.

Now Manningham and Arrington left because they thought they wouldn't see the ball thrown their way as much, especially if Mallett left, which was rumored the freakin day RR was hired.

Now everyone that has left the program aside from Boren, lets take a closer look at them.

Manningham- discipline issues, now yes he is an amazing player with great ability, but was also caught with some none perscription pills while being pulled over last season. Has had issues with Carr for dogging it in practice, you know what, he was suspended a game last season for lack of effort.

Arrington- was kicked off the team for a period of time last year. Had to work himself back on the team. I applaude him for turning it around. His Capital One game solidified him serious looks at the next level. He was going just like Manningham if Mallett wasn't there. As far as him being a #1 WR, he is not a #1 guy. He has poor #1 speed, he is a 4.6 40 type of guy. I love his sbility to go up and get the ball and make tough catches, but he is Marquise Walker done all over again. Great hands, no speed.

Mitchell- He quite under Carr for two weeks than was let back on the team replacing Ortman who had earned the spot, than it was given back to Mitchell. He left because he was lazy and knew he couldn't cut it, shoot he couldn't under Carr.

Ciulla- Said he had no more passion for the game, nothing to do with the coaching change, was going to walk away regaurdless.

Mallett- Do I have to say anything?

Are you seeing a trend here? Disciplinary actions, poor attitudes, lack of effort, they weeded themselves out. SO yes I can see your evaluation of RR is accurate, he is a disciplinarian and these players don't want that.

I am sure there are more on the way out, if they can't take it than here is the door. I mean Pat WHite, Steve Slayton, and all the rest of the players at WVU just couldn't take the heat could they? Matter of fact in his presser today he was saying that he and Pat White still talk and had nothing but great things to say about Pat. Sounds like he has no respect or values.

Boren left not only because he hated the conditioning, but because he hated coach Frey, his position coach, whom was nothing like Moller (daddy's old buddy). RR sides with his coaches, not players.

Lastly, I could care less if Tress chooses to or not to say a dirty word, but I am not backing down from what I said.

Give me a break with all of your you shouldn't say bad words. Until you are actually around Divison I Head Coaches or football programs daily, why even try to comment on something you have no first hand experience?