Michigans new records this year!

[marshallman]

1. Most losses in 129 years of football- 9
2. first losing season since 1967- 41 years
3. 33 straight seasons of bowl game streak over
4. first time in 46 years they failed to win back to back games in a season.
5. lost to OSU 5 straight times.
6. five losses at home- most ever
7. biggest loss to OSU in 40 years
8. first loss to OSU by a first year Michigan coach since 1929

There you are in black and white- substance, fact and food for thought. This is what you call a great coach in RR? Not to mention lossing to Toledo at home who only won 3 games this year. Don't tell me I'm beating a dead horse either. This one I'm kicking in the mouth! Well, have fun Michigan fans for the next 365 days dealing with this mess. OSU embarrassed your team and now you know why. RR!!

[X8XOHIOLEGENDX7X]

nice fact's..

[USAF_Defender23]

BOO HOO!!!!! I hate that team up north and love to see them sitting at home during bowl season!

[Burg_Grad_77]

Guess what?????


























MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS!!!

[abuck76]

Happy Thanksgiving Rich Fraudrigos.......The Buckeyes own you...............

[Peake]

Thanks for the tips.....With all of the success that Marshall is having I am surprised you had time to research all of this.

All that you posted is what it is. I am sure WV people were saying the same thing after their first season. We just have to wait and see.

Though what exactly are you proposing? Do you want UM to fire him and bring in someone else. This would be a terriable idea.

[bigtimehitter]

All UM fans knew this was going to be a long season. And i am willing to put money on it, in three years tops, the Big Blow is going to be a VERY strong team. which i guess is good, it will bring some substance back to the rivalry. So dont expect things to stay like this long in ann arbor, once DickRod gets HIS player in,watch out. So i guess all i gotta say is GO BLOW

[BigMcCauley55]

well

This season split the die hard fans from the wanna bes or just rebels that want to be different

and so what about some dumb facts god any true fan could have to you that stuff it isnt a big deal it happens i mean gosh streaks break and a team cant beat a team for a long time it happens in every sport.

so what im still going to be a michigan fan and be proud of my team week after week

oh and i still wore my michigan shirt even after they lost

[Just_A_Fan]

We all knew it was going to be a long season, but if your looking for someone thats a fan of Michigan to come on here and be like we suck we should have never hired RR then your out fo your mind. Please name me someone on the O that right now could play in the NFL.........the only person I can think of is MAYBE Greg Mathwes but thats a long shot he wouldn't get drafted until a late round.

Come this time next year Michigan will be a different team all round. I could see maybe a 8 or 9 win season. But until next season all i can say is Go Big Ten football in the bowl games maybe we can start looking alot better.

[Orestes]

All UM fans knew this was going to be a long season.

Don't be so sure. I saw plenty 8-9 win predictions by UM fans.

The offense was expected to struggle but many thought the scheme would be enough to be effective against the archaic Big10.

The defense was said to be loaded, either the best or the 2nd best unit in the Big10.


That being said, I do not necessarily think RR will be a flop. I just think the season was not a sure thing to be this bad. Northwestern won 9 games as a Big10 team this year. How many NFL players are playing on their offense? Toledo was not even competitive in the MAC. How many NFL players are floating around on that roster?

How many teams had fighting among players and coaches on the sideline? How many teams had a legacy player leave because of a loss of "family values." No matter what the other side of the story is, it happened, and now Boren has supposedly been a total beast and hard worker in OSU's practices ("maybe best lineman on the team right now, just needed some technique work"). Maybe OSU is soft and not well-conditioned, but they aren't the team that could compete in the 1st half of games, only to be destroyed in the 2nd half.

I do not think RR should be fired now. But if I were a UM fan, and UM does not win 8-9 games AND is not contending for a Big10 title until at least mid-November next season, I would want him canned. If they are hovering around .500 or below next season, I would have visions of Notre Dame and Nebraska floating in my head.

[Peake]

I have a lot of respect for what you post, and I feel like you make some points, but your projection of next season has no premise.

I was one of those fans that thought 8-9 wins was not that far out of reach, but looking back I was also relieing on, we'll we are Michigan, and that doesn't get it any more. Each year you see a "mid-major" making waves, why, because of scholarship restrictions. This is the reason you see parity at such a high degree.


This spread all starts with the QB, and Michigan was a player (Mallett) away from having a 6-8 win season. We all can agree to disagree as to why Mallett is not a Michigan, but if he stays everyone would be praising RR.


Archaic B10??? If I am not mistaken, Illinois, Purdue, NW, PSU, Michigan, Minnesota, and OSU (for the most part) all run the spread. Archaic?

The defense was a huge disappointment no questions asked. Linebacker and Safety play absolutly killed Michigan. I think you will see very soon that the safety play will be much better (M. Williams, Brandon Smith, JT Turner, Vlad Emilien).

My question is not how good is NW, but how bad is the B10? Name a team outside of OSU or PSU that is a true top 25? Please don't say MSU.

My question is how many NFL players are on Michigan's roster at this moment? I will come back to this, because IMHO, this has more to do with bad recruiting and talent evaluation under Carr over the past 5 years.

The fighting was between a S&C assistant that shouldn't have even been on the field and a player. It had to do with signals not getting in, little to do with a true arguement. Boren was never a true Wolverine. I have seen interviews with his own roommate that said he went home every opportunity that he had, and really never hung with anyone really. He left because he didn't like RR, I am ok with that. Boren is a beast in the weight room, lets see it correlate onto the field.


RR won't be fired period. He will not win 8-9 games next season IMHO either. If anyone thinks that the roster that he had this season, add some young guys, has to talent to win 9 games, than I want to smoke what you are. A freshman QB will struggle, and that is what they will play with next season. They should win 6-7 games next season, but I won't hold my breath if they don't. In 2010 if they don't win 9-12 games, then we will have a huge problem.

Here is the problem from mgoblueblogspot.com

So on Monday I said something like "talent? what talent?" A few readers had objections to that; one went so far as to dredge up Michigan's class rankings from the last few years.

Here you go:

Just dug this up.
Recruiting rankings of the Michigan classes by Rivals:
2008 - #10
2007 - #12
2006 - #13
2005 - #6
2004 - #5

First, let's stipulate that whatever talent exists in the 2008 and 2007 classes is young. Even if those guys are all "talent" you can take freshman five stars and lose to senior three stars by 40. So let's just look at the three classes that comprise Michigan's upperclassmen.

Second, what is "talent" according to the gurus? Four and five star guys, mostly, with definite gradations between the two. Sometimes a player has offers that defy their ranking; I'll try to note that were possible.

2004
Eligibility Expired: Henne, Branch, Graham, Adams, Hart.
Transferred, Injured or Quit Before Rodriguez Arrived: Walton, Cheathem, DeBenedictis, Ciulla, Mitchell, Martin, Rogers, Gallimore, Allison.
Departed After Rodriguez Arrived: Arrington (NFL draft).
AVAILABLE TALENT
Tim Jamison: a top-50 player who didn't quite live up to expectations but was an above-average defensive end.

Will Johnson: four-star who played like it.

Morgan Trent: four-star who ended up a three year starter; two disappointing years sandwich a good one.

Doug Dutch: top-100 player who was an obvious bust well before Rodriguez arrived.

Mike Massey: Four star DE who lost his job at TE to Carson Butler. Think about Carson Butler, and think about Lloyd Carr, and think about Pat Massey. What does that say about Massey's talent level?

Leftovers

There are only two other players from the class on the roster, John Thompson, a fringe three star who picked Michigan over Wisconsin and Minnesota who was a poor starting linebacker, and Charles Stewart, mid-three star, who was buried on the bench until Morgan Trent broke his hand during the 2005 Wisconsin game. Then he was torched by Minnesota, moved to safety, languished until graduation forced him into the lineup. He did not do well.

That's it. The entirety of the 2004 class that made it to this year was seven guys, two of them obvious busts before Rodriguez arrived, three of them high rated guys who played well (Trent is iffy, I guess), and two low-rated guys forced into the lineup who played poorly. Only one departure can even sort of be blamed on Rodriguez, and Arrington was just barely hanging on already.

Notable: every offensive lineman in this class washed out.

2005
Injured, Transferred, or Quit Before Rodriguez arrived: Bass, McKinney, Schifano, Germany, Simpson, Forcier, Sears, McLaurin, Richards
Left After Rodriguez Arrived: Manningham (NFL Draft), Slocum (academics).
Injured and Unavailable After Rodriguez Arrived: Zirbel.
AVAILABLE TALENT
Michigan pulled 11 four or five star prospects in the class of 2005, and Rodriguez got to use four of them:

Kevin Grady. Bust, and one that was obvious before Rodriguez's arrival.

Terrance Taylor. Very good multi-year starter who played well.

Brandon Harrison. Fringe four star was a middling multi-year starter.

David Moosman. Fringe four star looked locked on the bench; started at RG all year and was okay.

Leftovers

Other than Mark Ortmann, the rest of the class are non-contributors: Logan and Criswell never saw time except on special teams, Carson Butler is Carson Butler, and Tim McAvoy was never going to start until Boren transferred, at which point he was put out there until they were comfortable with their switched defensive tackle.

This class is the killer, a complete disaster with one very good starter, three meh starters, and no one else from the #6 class in the country.

2004
Injured, Transferred, or Quit Before Rodriguez Arrived: Mixon, Woods
Left After Rodriguez Arrived: Patilla, Boren
This class is mostly intact. (Jason Kates just left, but Michigan had him at his disposal if he wanted to use him.) The big recruits:

Five star Brandon Graham is a beast.

Five star Steve Schilling is a two-year starter but has just been okay; his first year under Carr was much worse. He has improved.

Carlos Brown is injury-plagued; had a good Northwestern game.

Jonas Mouton was a first-year starter after shifting from safety, was okay, and is now getting pretty good.

Stevie Brown is Stevie Brown.

Greg Mathews is a starting wide receiver.

Adam Patterson saw about a dozen snaps this year.

Brandon Minor was Michigan's most effective running back.

Leftovers

John Ferrara saw some PT as a redshirt freshman on the DL, then moved to guard. Dorrestein is a backup OT. Ezeh is a mediocre starting linebacker. CONER.

So, A Count
How much four and five star talent actually resides in the upper classes? We can discount Grady, Dutch, Massey, and Patterson; all appear to be busts and were definitely headed that way before Rodriguez arrived. The answer:

The Entire Defensive Line. And it played like it.
Minor and Brown. When healthy, played like it.
Mathews. Michigan's best receiver; ideally a #2 on a good team.
Mouton. Rough start due to inexperience; very good finish; likely future star.
Harrison, Trent, and Brown. Collectively, an enormous disappointment.
Schilling. Slightly disappointing but at least serviceable.
That's your talent. Four guys on offense who collectively missed about 15 games, the badass DL, one linebacker, and the secondary. Is that enough to make up for the worst quarterback situation in the conference, and possibly the entirety of BCS conferences, a lack of depth at linebacker and offensive line, and a slew of injuries and a slew of freshmen making stupid mistakes? No.

A second note: "talent" is only talent if there is depth behind it. There is always a chance a guy is a huge bust. When it's Grady or Patterson he's sitting behind other guys who were high rated and play well. When it's Brown, there are zero other options and you're forced to play the guy. You see depth of talent at RB (Minor, Brown, Grady) and DL somewhat (Patterson is left over), and nowhere else.

Michigan got killed by back-to-back classes that saw a ton of attrition at key spots. Basically the only thing Michigan has to show from the 2004 and 2005 classes is the defensive line, which was Big Ten championship caliber.*

The rest of the team? Is not.

[Orestes]

My main feeling is that no team in the Big10 will be a clear favorite or considered "loaded." It should be wide open, though if Washington comes back on D (new rookie contract rules could force some "iffy" types to jump), I think OSU would probably be considered the favorite.

However, not only is there not one juggernaut but everyone is losing key players. Also, Michigan has OSU and PSU at home. I would expect Minor to carry the ball 25-30 times a game, with a Krenzel-like use from the young QB (safe passes, occasional longball, QB runs here and there) and a defense that should improve.

Schedule:

Western Michigan W
Notre Dame ?
? W (gotta think they schedule a W here)
Indiana W
@ MSU W (Ringer gone; UM needs to win this one IMO)
@ Iowa ?
PSU ?
@Illinois ?
Purdue W
@Wisconsin ?
Ohio State L (of course I say that haha...)
? W (didn't know where to put it but there will be a 12th game and probably a W)


So... I have UM at 6-1 with five question-mark games. You get 2 of those five and you have 8 wins. I am assuming that the currently unscheduled games will be scheduled Ws.

[ballparent]

I have a lot of respect for what you post, and I feel like you make some points, but your projection of next season has no premise.

I was one of those fans that thought 8-9 wins was not that far out of reach, but looking back I was also relieing on, we'll we are Michigan, and that doesn't get it any more. Each year you see a "mid-major" making waves, why, because of scholarship restrictions. This is the reason you see parity at such a high degree.


This spread all starts with the QB, and Michigan was a player (Mallett) away from having a 6-8 win season. We all can agree to disagree as to why Mallett is not a Michigan, but if he stays everyone would be praising RR.


Archaic B10??? If I am not mistaken, Illinois, Purdue, NW, PSU, Michigan, Minnesota, and OSU (for the most part) all run the spread. Archaic?

The defense was a huge disappointment no questions asked. Linebacker and Safety play absolutly killed Michigan. I think you will see very soon that the safety play will be much better (M. Williams, Brandon Smith, JT Turner, Vlad Emilien).

My question is not how good is NW, but how bad is the B10? Name a team outside of OSU or PSU that is a true top 25? Please don't say MSU.

My question is how many NFL players are on Michigan's roster at this moment? I will come back to this, because IMHO, this has more to do with bad recruiting and talent evaluation under Carr over the past 5 years.

The fighting was between a S&C assistant that shouldn't have even been on the field and a player. It had to do with signals not getting in, little to do with a true arguement. Boren was never a true Wolverine. I have seen interviews with his own roommate that said he went home every opportunity that he had, and really never hung with anyone really. He left because he didn't like RR, I am ok with that. Boren is a beast in the weight room, lets see it correlate onto the field.


RR won't be fired period. He will not win 8-9 games next season IMHO either. If anyone thinks that the roster that he had this season, add some young guys, has to talent to win 9 games, than I want to smoke what you are. A freshman QB will struggle, and that is what they will play with next season. They should win 6-7 games next season, but I won't hold my breath if they don't. In 2010 if they don't win 9-12 games, then we will have a huge problem.

Here is the problem.

So on Monday I said something like "talent? what talent?" A few readers had objections to that; one went so far as to dredge up Michigan's class rankings from the last few years.

Here you go:

Just dug this up.
Recruiting rankings of the Michigan classes by Rivals:
2008 - #10
2007 - #12
2006 - #13
2005 - #6
2004 - #5

First, let's stipulate that whatever talent exists in the 2008 and 2007 classes is young. Even if those guys are all "talent" you can take freshman five stars and lose to senior three stars by 40. So let's just look at the three classes that comprise Michigan's upperclassmen.

Second, what is "talent" according to the gurus? Four and five star guys, mostly, with definite gradations between the two. Sometimes a player has offers that defy their ranking; I'll try to note that were possible.

2004
Eligibility Expired: Henne, Branch, Graham, Adams, Hart.
Transferred, Injured or Quit Before Rodriguez Arrived: Walton, Cheathem, DeBenedictis, Ciulla, Mitchell, Martin, Rogers, Gallimore, Allison.
Departed After Rodriguez Arrived: Arrington (NFL draft).
AVAILABLE TALENT
Tim Jamison: a top-50 player who didn't quite live up to expectations but was an above-average defensive end.

Will Johnson: four-star who played like it.

Morgan Trent: four-star who ended up a three year starter; two disappointing years sandwich a good one.

Doug Dutch: top-100 player who was an obvious bust well before Rodriguez arrived.

Mike Massey: Four star DE who lost his job at TE to Carson Butler. Think about Carson Butler, and think about Lloyd Carr, and think about Pat Massey. What does that say about Massey's talent level?

Leftovers

There are only two other players from the class on the roster, John Thompson, a fringe three star who picked Michigan over Wisconsin and Minnesota who was a poor starting linebacker, and Charles Stewart, mid-three star, who was buried on the bench until Morgan Trent broke his hand during the 2005 Wisconsin game. Then he was torched by Minnesota, moved to safety, languished until graduation forced him into the lineup. He did not do well.

That's it. The entirety of the 2004 class that made it to this year was seven guys, two of them obvious busts before Rodriguez arrived, three of them high rated guys who played well (Trent is iffy, I guess), and two low-rated guys forced into the lineup who played poorly. Only one departure can even sort of be blamed on Rodriguez, and Arrington was just barely hanging on already.

Notable: every offensive lineman in this class washed out.

2005
Injured, Transferred, or Quit Before Rodriguez arrived: Bass, McKinney, Schifano, Germany, Simpson, Forcier, Sears, McLaurin, Richards
Left After Rodriguez Arrived: Manningham (NFL Draft), Slocum (academics).
Injured and Unavailable After Rodriguez Arrived: Zirbel.
AVAILABLE TALENT
Michigan pulled 11 four or five star prospects in the class of 2005, and Rodriguez got to use four of them:

Kevin Grady. Bust, and one that was obvious before Rodriguez's arrival.

Terrance Taylor. Very good multi-year starter who played well.

Brandon Harrison. Fringe four star was a middling multi-year starter.

David Moosman. Fringe four star looked locked on the bench; started at RG all year and was okay.

Leftovers

Other than Mark Ortmann, the rest of the class are non-contributors: Logan and Criswell never saw time except on special teams, Carson Butler is Carson Butler, and Tim McAvoy was never going to start until Boren transferred, at which point he was put out there until they were comfortable with their switched defensive tackle.

This class is the killer, a complete disaster with one very good starter, three meh starters, and no one else from the #6 class in the country.

2004
Injured, Transferred, or Quit Before Rodriguez Arrived: Mixon, Woods
Left After Rodriguez Arrived: Patilla, Boren
This class is mostly intact. (Jason Kates just left, but Michigan had him at his disposal if he wanted to use him.) The big recruits:

Five star Brandon Graham is a beast.

Five star Steve Schilling is a two-year starter but has just been okay; his first year under Carr was much worse. He has improved.

Carlos Brown is injury-plagued; had a good Northwestern game.

Jonas Mouton was a first-year starter after shifting from safety, was okay, and is now getting pretty good.

Stevie Brown is Stevie Brown.

Greg Mathews is a starting wide receiver.

Adam Patterson saw about a dozen snaps this year.

Brandon Minor was Michigan's most effective running back.

Leftovers

John Ferrara saw some PT as a redshirt freshman on the DL, then moved to guard. Dorrestein is a backup OT. Ezeh is a mediocre starting linebacker. CONER.

So, A Count
How much four and five star talent actually resides in the upper classes? We can discount Grady, Dutch, Massey, and Patterson; all appear to be busts and were definitely headed that way before Rodriguez arrived. The answer:

The Entire Defensive Line. And it played like it.
Minor and Brown. When healthy, played like it.
Mathews. Michigan's best receiver; ideally a #2 on a good team.
Mouton. Rough start due to inexperience; very good finish; likely future star.
Harrison, Trent, and Brown. Collectively, an enormous disappointment.
Schilling. Slightly disappointing but at least serviceable.
That's your talent. Four guys on offense who collectively missed about 15 games, the badass DL, one linebacker, and the secondary. Is that enough to make up for the worst quarterback situation in the conference, and possibly the entirety of BCS conferences, a lack of depth at linebacker and offensive line, and a slew of injuries and a slew of freshmen making stupid mistakes? No.

A second note: "talent" is only talent if there is depth behind it. There is always a chance a guy is a huge bust. When it's Grady or Patterson he's sitting behind other guys who were high rated and play well. When it's Brown, there are zero other options and you're forced to play the guy. You see depth of talent at RB (Minor, Brown, Grady) and DL somewhat (Patterson is left over), and nowhere else.

Michigan got killed by back-to-back classes that saw a ton of attrition at key spots. Basically the only thing Michigan has to show from the 2004 and 2005 classes is the defensive line, which was Big Ten championship caliber.*

The rest of the team? Is not.

Interesting...this is a post just like one made on mgoblog and referenced on the CBS message boards....scroll to the top and find the same post.....?

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/messages/chrono/11927922/0/0/11937041#ID11937041

[Peake]

Of course ballparent thank you for pointing this out since you, an OSU fan, would never comment on Michigan or admit to reading something other than Ohio State .....This is from mgoblueblogspot.com....Sorry should have linked it, and the fiance said link it, but we were going out as i typed it.

Anyways, I beleive this is a strong point that is made.....

[ballparent]

Of course ballparent thank you for pointing this out since you, an OSU fan, would never comment on Michigan or admit to reading something other than Ohio State :roll: .....This is from mgoblueblogspot.com....Sorry should have linked it, and the fiance said link it, but we were going out as i typed it.

Anyways, I beleive this is a strong point that is made.....

Sorry, no luck there, don't go cruising Michigan blogs or Michigan threads on CBS sports forums, but I do recognize blatent plagiarism when I see it and thought it was time to call it out as the "sources" you often refer to. The improved grammatical usage, higher level vocabulary, and correct spelling were dead giveaways. Easy to check, took about 10 seconds, simply copy a chunk of the post, paste it in google and the CBS thread was the first to come up. As for commenting on a Michigan thread on this board... perhaps you didn't infer the exact meaning of the topic and first post which lists all the negative records set this year for TSUN. Just my kind of thread.
Geez, I wish my husband would tell when I should provide links to a post I copy....without his help I hardly know what to do....I mean it takes so long to copy and paste a link.

[Peake]

I assure you that none of these guys are any of my "sources". Both Brian and Eric are outstanding in the blog world, but blogging and actual journalism are two completely different things. I have no problem with you "calling me out", but I would appreciate you not insulting me. I respect the post you put up of all of my quotes (some were out of context, but anyways) to other posters who I didn't agree with, and I have applied that when I respond. If you disagree with me or think I would actually plagerize something (though I have written plenty of papers and articles in my day and have never been accused of plagerism), then that is your opinion. I add something that no other Michigan poster adds on here, and if you choose not to believe that I have sources, then so be it. I often PM certain people with information I do not post on the board as well, so take it for what it is worth, but please don't insult me or talk down to me. Thanks.

Anyways, I am going way off subject here. As a previous poster pointed out, I will wear my UM gear regardless of if we are 0-12 or 12-0.

[mister b]

I saw yesterday that Michigan added Eastern Michigan to next year's schedule. I think they are slotted in the 3rd game. If I can find the link I will post it.

[Peake]

That is accurate...They are still looking for one more game that is a 1 game home for UM only.

[Just_A_Fan]

peake u have a guess on who that other team would be?

I dont think that our D was all that bad this year. You can look at it this way the offense was always putting the defense in bad spots. We was unable to move the ball that well leading to the Defense being on the field way to much.
I think thats why the first half was always close and then come the second half the D would be tired from pretty much beeing on the field way to long.

Look at the OSU game in the first half Mcihigna look pretty good OSU only had two big plays the run from B. Wells and the TD from TP. OSU didnt put a long drive together in the first half. Michigan did sack TP I think it was maybe 3 times and had one INT. But couldn't get no help form the O from the INT not coming away with anypoints on that hurt.

[mister b]

From the 3 Michigan games I got to see on tv, I did not think the defense was that bad. They were put in some awfully bad spots by the offense. Also, all those 3 and out series by the offense wore the defense out.

I seem to remember at the start of the Ohio State game hearing that coming into the game, Michigan's offense had 48, 3 and outs to date for the season. The defense can only cover the offense's back so much. This added to the other glaring stat that I saw of Michigan giving up 40+ points in 4 games.

College football in general and the Big Ten as a group, needs for it's premier teams, Michigan and Ohio State, to have top programs year in and year out. When any of these 2 struggle, the nation views that the Big Ten is down and if the league champ is someone other then UM or OSU, the league champ was given a free pass and didn't earn it. Unless of course, they had beaten a 1 loss UM or OSU team.