Is there something not quite right here?

[Yossarian]

Wouldn't the NCAA be more effective if:
They went after the real problem here , the players who broke the rules. Getting Jim Tressel removed means very little to some of these idiots. If the NCAA pulled the schollys and went after the root cause of this mess, other entitled athletes might take note. As it is the coach is gone but they remain. Shouldn't the university apply PRESSURE to players to resign as well? Just asking. They threw a good man under the bus. Anyone who arrives at a meeting of that magnitude driving a car that is obviously outside their means, should be gone quicker than a New York second. If Ohio State really wants to clean up the program and help the next coach/sucker who takes the job removing the cancerous players and suspending the coach might be a better way to do things.

[seofan_via_dublin]

As for Pryor's car. The Nissan 350SZ, that he drove to the now infamous team meeting, was purchased for him by his mother.

They traded in the Dodge Charger that he used to drive, also purchased by his mom, toward the purchase of the Nissan. They showed all the proper paperwork to the NCAA this past week.

Now, the notion that TP sold his memorabilia because he had to help out his struggling family is a completely other argument!!!!

[Yossarian]

SEO thanks for the correction on the Z. Maybe it's just me being a huge homer for the Buckeyes and a great admirer of JT but I can't help but think that the coach informed the players and stressed to them the rules and the importance of them. You can lead a horse so to speak. I think it was also blatantly obvious, due to some of the quaterbacks antics on the sidelines, that the coach went the extra mile for this kid. I hear the high school coach is stating the player is the scapegoat in all this. That's funny considering the high school coach and probably every one before him created this monster. Until you get these entitled athlete's attention in a very strong way no coach will be safe.

[seofan_via_dublin]

It has been talked about by people close to the program that Tress had a set of rules for the team, and a set for Pryor. I agree that Tress is part taking the fall, but he did just as much damage to the situation by lying on multiple occasions about knowing what was going on.

My admiration for JT is just as high as ever before, and it won't be going anywhere.

[Peake]

I will add my 2c if anyone cares.

1. The notion that JT did this because he cares so much about his kids is complete garbage. If you believe that then you live in a fairy tale world.
point: Would JT do what he did for a 3rd string kicker if they would have committed the same acts? No. Please stop with the, he did this because he is a good person that cares too much. No, he is a guy that has a lot of pressure on him to live up to high expectations. He thought he had a chance at winning a national title, and instead of turning in his starting players at risk of losing them and losing his possible title shot, he covered up a nasty situation.

2. This notion that JT can't keep an eye on all of his players. Again if you want to use this line, then you don't really understand college athletics.
A. Ohio State has 6 staff members and 2 interns (compliance) that are dedicated to making sure that all rules and regulations are complied with and that athletes are doing what they are supposed to in and out of the classroom.
B. You have position coaches that are responsible for 10 or less players, for knowing what they are doing, making sure they are at tutoring, that they are showing up to class, etc.
C. You have three directors of Football Operations and Development that are responsible for student athletes strictly for football.
D. You have 3 Academic Assistants strictly for football.
E. You have 10+ on the S&C staff.

Add it all up and you are looking at nearly a 1:4ish ratio.

3. Compliance-I would not blame this all on compliance. It was JT's fault for not turning over the information to them, thus allowing them to do their job and take care of this legally. Yes OSU probably losses those 5 for several games and the season does not result in a Sugar Bowl win, but you keep your coach and your kids probably come back the next season and the fans are ready to forgive and forget.
With that being said, compliance did a p*ss poor job of collecting things like receipts for purchases over $100. At Marshall it was common knowledge that if you made a purchase over $100 you needed to get a copy of the receipt and turn it into your position coach. If your parents got a car that you drive, then it was common to turn over a copy of the title or registration over in order to answer questions of Johnny driving around a new sports car. Alabama does an excellent job now of collecting data on their athletes when it comes to big purchases. Shame on compliance for this.
Also with that being said, at the beginning of the season compliance has an hour to two hour long orientation with new players to tell them rules they need to know, they also do a Q&A with them for any questions they have. They also do a full team Q&A to answer questions current players may have. Please don't give me the garbage response that the players didn't know. That would be very highly unlikely.

4. Pryor---The car fiasco. It is an NCAA violation to receive preferential treatment due to your status as a student athlete. Now, if I take my car into the shop, they do not give me a loaner, let alone the type of loaners he is receiving. If you do receive a loaner proof of current insurance is usually common practice. So you be the judge, did he or didn't he receive preferential treatment due to who he is?

Also, with that being said, the notion he is really poor and his family lives in poverty, well how in the world do they have the credit to purchase the vehicles they are purchasing? If he must sell his memorabilia to survive, then how is his family purchasing these type of vehicles?

In conclusion, this all smells really bad. Pryor is a cancer and the NCAA will have their way with him and IMO I seriously doubt he ever plays another down for the Buckeyes. Tressel is a good man who made a very bad decision. He is like every other normal person who make poor judgment calls, people have choose to buy into this perception that he is some sort of Saint that possess some sort of superior integrity then other coaches. He doesn't. He is just like every other coach who is in a high profile position who feels the pressure to perform and win games. The better you are the more pressure there is, and sometimes you cave to that pressure, and he did.

[KVDW]

Wouldn't the NCAA be more effective if:
They went after the real problem here , the players who broke the rules.

I agree. If the kids (?) had any integrity about them and love for their coach and school at all and hadn't broken the rules. then Tressell nor anybody else would have had to lie in the first place.
I hope the NCAA boots their butts from all sports EVERYWHERE.

[seofan_via_dublin]

Peake, it is not uncommon at all to receive a loaner car when yours is in the shop for extended service up here. It's a perk offered to regular clients at many auto dealers up here, it's one of the deals you make to get the customer to service their car at the dealership instead of a discount location.

The notion that Pryor getting a loaner car is an extra benifit, not made to the public, is a false one.

Also, while your view off JT in "example 1" is a very sterile outsider view, and one with a since of truth. It is not entirely true. Yes, JT made a giant mistake, yes he covered it up, yes he got caught, and yes he deserves everything he got, but no to the notion that he did this solely for your reasoning. You are partially right, but so is the fan who sees JT did this to help protect his players from what he perceived as a greater threat than simply NCAA violations.

I think his biggest error, was protecting his 5 star players, without considering a worst case senario for his 80 other scholarship players. He chose to protect the few, and leave the masses at large. Well that and lying! Lol

As for the failures of the compliance office, they will be held accountable when their time comes.

[seofan_via_dublin]

The real problem is a total lack of accountability and it is in all levels.

The "kids" get the blame for their actions, but Tressel gets the sole blame for his too.

[seofan_via_dublin]

Also, Peake's example #2, I'm not sure what they do at Marshall, but whatever it is, I'm 110% certain that it's easier to keep track of a player in Huntington By God, WVA. If a player in Columbus doesn't want it to be known where he is going and what he is doing there, it is much easier to lose the guy who is in charge of keeping tabs on him.

This goes for all small town universities vs. A major metro area university.

[Peake]

Well I find it very interesting that he is getting a loaner car, let alone a loaner car as "nice" as the one's he has been getting. I consider where I live to be in a simi-major metro area (Raleigh-Durham), and I bought our recent car from a GM dealer, who doesn't give us a loaner when our car is in the shop for multiple days. I know our insurance will cover one if we have to, but I have never gotten one in this area. I also ran this idea by my father-in-law who lives in Detroit, and has never heard of this extra perk. Columbus must be a nice place.

What I also find interesting is that a 2006 article in the Columbus Dispatch reported this: "Auditors found that 44 athletes bought parking permits for, received parking tickets in, or were seen driving cars that weren't registered.
Records obtained in May show that football players continue to submit incomplete forms, lacking sales prices, dates of purchases, co-signers and other required information."

What exactly was he protecting his players from? Why not just turn it over to compliance? His players have to play by the same rules as everyone else, no exceptions. Protecting them is doing the responsible thing and teaching them accountability and being responsible for one's own actions. I totally disagree with any this idea he was protecting anything other then his season, his wins, and his contract. You are right, he protected 5 "star" players at the expense of 80 other players. As I previously stated, a 3rd string kicker does this then he does what he is supposed to

I used the ratio example to shed light on the woe is the Head Coach theory of he can't have 125 eyes at once. I get what you are saying but the folks in Tempe, LA, Miami areas for example would be a much more convincing argument. I am not using Marshall as my only example, and I am aware it is more difficult to keep tabs on players in larger markets, but the point remains. If players have to "get lost" in order to have a good time, then those are not kids you want in your program.

Lastly, if it is common practice for anyone to get loaner cars in the Columbus metro area, might I suggest checking current insurance and not loaning out cars to student-athletes that bring attention on them. I would totally disconnect myself and the program from the current dealership that continues to "bend" the rules for these players.

[seofan_via_dublin]

And hence the reason that they are in this sh!t pickle!

[Peake]

yep....

[seofan_via_dublin]

Peake, I guess you'll have to continue to doubt that Tressel did anything for something other than selfish reasons, and I'll continue to not believe that Rich Rod failed in compliance because of "forms he didnt use at WVU".

Either way, both schools are replacing coaches for together for the first time since the 40's.

And as JT said last night to the fans that marched to his house in a show of support:
"Come November, we're still going to kick Michigan's A$$!"

Look at it this way, it's given the message boards a lot of activity during the normal dead time of year.

[Yossarian]

I believe that a very good man, not a perfect one, lost his job over a few immature, self-absorbed, arrogant, prima donnas, that the world of collegiate sports needs to make a very strong example of. If you behave in such a way to bring dishonor to the coach and university that offered up a a great deal of loyalty and respect for you, then whatever punishmant you get you richly deserve. That's not likely to happen however because money dictates and the athlete puts fans ( you and me) in the seats. The botom line may be that it is our fault that we have to put up with all this garbage.

[Peake]

He lost his job because he failed as an adult to do what he was supposed to do. His players screwed up, yes, but then a man (who cares good or bad) made an awful mistake that cost him his job. Many athletes screw up and make the men who bring them in look bad, but those adults in turn have a responsibility to those young men to set an example for them. Please don't do this woe is Tressel thing. He screwed up, he deserves what he got. He was a great coach, no one is doubting that, but he screwed up big time and he has to be accountable.

Rich Rod sucks, guy got canned because he failed on the field.

[Yossarian]

Peake, not disputing that the man made a mistake and deserves punishment of some kind. What I am saying is that in this case the punishment might not fit the crime. I may be totally wrong but I manage people and one of the things I strive to do is give credit where it is due when someone has to be criticized. I weigh very heavily what a person contributes to the organization along with what negatives they might have. It has served me well. All I'm saying is that a man who has given as much as this man has given to his community and to those who employed him has EARNED more respect than he is going to receive all because of a few immature athletes who have EARNED nothing. I also suspect that Jim Tressel is the ONLY man to know what truly happened in this situation so I for one will not judge him that strongly. To me he is not convicted until all the facts are known if that ever happens.

[Peake]

Um the facts came out....he covered it up. He admitted to it. I am not sure what point you are trying to drive home, but when you fail to do the right thing and it will result in major violations, well to me that is a lot of harm. I am not sure exactly what you are weighing, I know Cooper sure as heck won a lot of games, and I am pretty sure if something like this had happened to him there would not be a similar reaction.

Anyways, I couldn't agree more with gahs4.

[FANOSPORTS]

Bottom line, you make that kind of money: watch your kids and do what the school and NCAA ask because somebody will always be watching.

[Yossarian]

Good points all, but what about the players? Will they return to the field? If they play one down of football at Ohio State this is all a travesty. The root problem here is the players. The Reggie Bush's, the Cam Newton's, the quarterback at OSU . They get their reward but have NO consequences. When do they commit their uncorrectable offenses?

[Peake]

I don't mean 24/7 surveillance, I am only saying that there are plenty of eyes on these kids throughout the year. It is not 1 Head Coach and 125 players and the Head Coach has to watch all of them. I just get tired of the excuse that a coach can't know everything and they have 125 kids to look after etc. They have many sets of eyes on them a good majority of the time and all of those other people are responsible for reporting back to the coach.

Anyways it is what it is at this point.