Dinosaur Tissue

[kantuckyII]

What's up with Paladin and My2cents?!

good night! I think they'd have us burned at the stake or something. If you don't like the science these people have presented...backed up and varified science..then, reject and move on....don't go off on some tangents on the thread.

[kantuckyII]

The losers have to denigrate ALL sciences -- geology, biology, chemistry, paleontology,astrology, etc. -- because ALL come to the same conclusions of all their respective work that the Earth is very old, ages that millions of years pre-dating man existed and the evidence is clear, convincing and overwhelming. Science will continue to spread the knowledge of man and destroy the attempts to use beliefs as a fake "science".


Those poor scientists even made it to the Moon with their lack of knowledge and foolish info.

Paladin, I challenge you and call you the 'flat earther' I think you're so mingled in superstition, you don't want to hear anything else.

The fact of the matter is, this tissue is soft and preserved. How could it be 25 million years old?

It isn't. It was said repeatedly that it came from bones that were 68 to 80 million years old. The lady said this was something that hadn't ever been done before because paleontologists weren't keen on the idea of the bones being destroyed, buy Mr Horner let her do this by supplying her with material to work with. They may have been able to do this all along, find soft tissue in the bones by dissolving them, but just never did because no one had tried it before.

Personally I believe in science and thier evidence that the Earth is hundred of millions of years old. You say for us to prove that it is, on that same token let's see some proof that it isn't. And I don't mean just "because the Bible says so".

It was said...it was said..who said? who knows? You can buy that tissue could remain like that for 80 million years?

[my2cents]

First of all -- I don't need to prove anything. All the sciences are taught in school & colleges . Their body of work speaks for itself. The mindless here want someone to prove a negative. The mere fact that biology, chemistry, etc are taught and teach about facts which ALL back up each branch of science that the Earth is millions of years old. No one teaches the Earth is but a few thousand years old. Except maybe a branch of the FLAT EARTH SOCIETY.

Should also be pointed out that there are lots of religious believers who ALSO believe in science. It is only the extremists ( Conservatives) that exclude science in favor of rigid fanatical religious doctrine. The fact that schools & colleges teach the sciences of all types to the EXCLUSION of the flat eaarth kooks "theories" makes REAL science the curriculum thats standard for all. Blatant attempts to replace REAL science with religious beliefs as a "science" have failed. Only here , on an internet message board can you have an old coot preaching his crap that no one in respected academia can accept because they have no proof. Science has all kinds of proof in ALL the various forms of science that destroys their voodoo religion about the real age of the Earth, the Universe,etc.. What a folly. Disbelieve science and instead, follow mindless idiots with their voodoo beliefs.

Good night Paladin, as I said, you're REALLY ARE the flat earther. This isn't someone preaching the Bible. This is someone that is saying..here, 'hold this tissue' it's real, it's pliable, it's soft tissue from dinosaurs. There's no way it's 25 million or even a million years old..
You're superstitious as well! Wouldn't you admit that you're SCARED TO DEATH Of these findings because..they're right in your face. You can't argue them, you just lash out and attack because your little world has been shaken up! Over and over again, your view of the world is toppling.

There would be no reason to have a debate if you would just state your opinion and tell the truth, but you continually tell lies. You keep saying "Someone is saying here there is no way it's 25 million years old" and if you actaully watched the video you know that they never said that. They say, over and over 65 and 80 million year old bones. So if you have to resort to lying or distorting facts, don't get your short in a wad when your called out on it.

[kantuckyII]

You don't need to debate me at all. I really am not wanting to debate you on anything. I'm simply saying, here is hard core proof. If you don't want to accept or consider it, that's up to you. If not? who can make you, just leave your name calling and your little barbs. I have met plenty of people who are Bible believing Christians who I am sure...WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, are far more intelligent than you or Paladin. NO doubt in my mind.

Anyway, you never called me on anything....again, they're saying that the material is 'supposedly' that age and something 'ain't' right.

[fuzzhead]

Well Fuzz, since your so interested in getting to the truth, please show us your evidence that the Earth is 10,00 years old, besides the bibles version of course.

You're the one who hates the Bible and loves to make fun of Christians. The burden of proof is on you because the Bible has been around a lot longer than you or the "science" to espouse. I can and have posted links that show evidence and I will again if you'd like, but it pretty much boils down to this right here:

I could give you all the evidence you'd like - it's all there. However, you would still choose not to believe it. Science and it's methods can be twisted to fit almost any argument out there.
The difference is the presumptions the "scientist" makes before looking at the evidence.
For example, the atheist says that there is no God out there and he makes that belief his religion and tries to do everything in his power to prove his belief.
The Christian believes there is a God and that all of the order, laws, and logic that flows in the natural world around us is not an accident, but is the result of higher intelligence. He will make God his religion and try to prove his belief.

Actually Sir, you were the first to denegrate to name calling. What do I need to back up my belief, which actually is not considered a belief but an accpeted scientific fact. How about the thousands upon thousands of books and scientific resarch on the subject. Of coures you have your one source.

"The Goat Herders Guide to the Galaxy"

You should pick and choose your battles a little more carefully. This one only sets religion back in a bad light and drives more people away from it than it draws towards it.

Keep on talking. . . all talk and no substance.
Keep letting everyone else think for you.
You're pretty much saying, "I believe what I believe because complete strangers told me to."

[kantuckyII]

I can't understand why My2Cents and Paladin think this is a battle period? I mean, we've simply presented a factual case and this is simply science. As to whatever it means...I reckon is up to the beholder's eyes.

[Burg_Grad_77]

I can't understand why My2Cents and Paladin think this is a battle period? I mean, we've simply presented a factual case and this is simply science. As to whatever it means...I reckon is up to the beholder's eyes.

What factual case??? I have watched that video twice and nowhere on there do they come out and say that those bones are any younger than 65 to 80 million years old. They, the scientists, still fully believe them to be 65 to 80 million years old and that they have just been able to successfully extract soft tissue from bones that old.

You have drawn your own conclusion that they can't be that old and still have soft tissue in side them, but yet there was nothing said of them being less than the 10,000 years old that you think they are. They could offer up scientific proof of how old those bones are if they are asked by methods that are widely accepted, such as carbon dating, while all you have to offer is what is written in a book less than 2,000 years ago.

[my2cents]

You don't need to debate me at all. I really am not wanting to debate you on anything. I'm simply saying, here is hard core proof. If you don't want to accept or consider it, that's up to you. If not? who can make you, just leave your name calling and your little barbs. I have met plenty of people who are Bible believing Christians who I am sure...WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, are far more intelligent than you or Paladin. NO doubt in my mind.

Anyway, you never called me on anything....again, they're saying that the material is 'supposedly' that age and something 'ain't' right.

Hard Core Proof, when the proof that you point to comes from the people who say 65 o to 80 million years old. Your right, there is no debate here. Here is a link to some actual scientist discussing the new find by Dr Schwietzer.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 100541.htm

If you would bother to read down to the end, they state that she repeated the test on several 65 to 80 million old specimens, The closest they come to your 10,000 year old belief is to say that it was previously thought that molecular level cells couldn't last more than 100,000 years. So is that your Hard Core Proof, or do you hold a Doctorate in Molecular Biology that we are all unaware of?

Bottom line to me is, you will grasp at any straws and twist scientific research and even out right lie to make yourself feel better, because I can see no other reason to come to the conclusion you did on this 60 mintues segment. It stated nothing about proving the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. That was all created in your mind.

Heres the real irony, you don't believe anything that the scientist say about the age of the Earth, but yet you will use their research to prove what you believe. I mean, either they're right or they're wrong. If you want to believe the bible on your faith, you would be best to leave science out of it.

[kantuckyII]

I believe if science doesn't match up with the Bible..then, the science is wrong.

However, this has nothing to do with either

[fuzzhead]

My2cents,

Will you at least take a look at this link in the name of scientific debate?

http://www.icr.org/article/1842/

[my2cents]

I believe if science doesn't match up with the Bible..then, the science is wrong.

However, this has nothing to do with either

We know that about you. That is why you are not worthy of debate.
"there are none so blind as those who will not see"

[my2cents]

My2cents,

Will you at least take a look at this link in the name of scientific debate?

http://www.icr.org/article/1842/

Fuzzhead, I did look at this link and have read this before. I try to look at both sides of the issue before I make an opinion. I even looked at answers in Genesis. All I can say is the scientific evidence is overwhelming as opposed to the belief systems like Tuck suffers from. Like I said before, I have no problem with you believing what you do. I have a problem with people like Tuck, who post topics in here that are blatant lies or at the least, mistruths. His opening statement in the thread is a lie.

"Anyone catch 60 Minutes? Leslie Stahl scratching her head about dinosaur tissue that is still, soft, pliable and NO WAY eon's old...hard to believe it's even thousands of years old. Showing blood vessels, clearly intact...as she said, 'won't this rewrite out understanding of history and time?"

I have watched that clip twice and she did not scratch her head literally or figurativley and say it was hard to believe this was even thousands of years old, nor did she say "won't this rewrite our understanding of history and time".

Don't take my word for it, answers in genesis' own website states that they missed out on the chance to point out the young earth evidence on the 60 minutes piece (See link below).

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... es-missing

Sadly, they also lie or stretch the truth to say that the material was not fossilized after 85 millions years shows that it was in fact much younger, when the truth is, it was fossilized but turn to "Microscopic rubbery material" when soaked in acid. There is still debate as to why and what the material is, but there is no speculation even hinted at that it isn't fossil material and very old. Then even went on to compare the dino bone to being like a chicken bone soaked in vinegar and turning rubbery, which also is a lie and did not happen. So you have to ask yourself, why are they compelled to take a story and have to lie about it.

Young Earthers have no problem taking actual scientific research and "stretching" the truth to sell their story. A I G is actually trying to sell you books and get you to donate to their Creation Museum. Tuck, just doesn't know any better.

[mstangmom]

I think the biggest problem in the "young" earth theory for those who do believe in the bible is they tend to forget GOD has no concept of time, Hundreds of thousands of years could have been one day to God. in the same theory seconds could be thousands of years to God.

Now the testing of the earth is a MAN made test so when the testing first started who knows if the original results were correct or not.

My Question is WHO CARES how old the earth is? I could be 10's of thouands years or it could be 6 - 10 thousand none of it changes the fact you were born on this Earth, you currently sustain a life on this Earth, and YOU WILL DIE on this earth and almost everyone will be burried in this earth. OH, and chances are unless we humans blow up the earth it will continue to be here years after you have gon to meet you maker.

[fuzzhead]

Like I said earlier, all "scientists" have biases and presuppositions before looking at "evidence". Like mom implied, they are just men.
The conclusions drawn from this "evidence" can and usually will be used to back up these beliefs and assupmtions and can easily be twisted in a number of different ways.
I believe the link I posted made a very compelling argument. I think it's wrong to call young-earthers "stoopid" or "closed-minded". No one was there when it all came into being so it seems to me that anyone's opinion is usually as good as anyone else's in the realm of debate as long as it is rational and based on observations that can be proven logically and plainly.

[Paladin]

I wouldn't be rushing out to OSU or OU or any reputable University to major in "Young Earth". They don't have it !! However, you will find all the sciences to study and all the arguments against a young earth AND you will have all the sciences striving for more knowledge, which blows up much of the "stories " in the bible. Faith is for the sheep. Science is for the betterment of man. The young earth is another fairy tale like Santa Claus or the Easter bunny.Thats also why most people who do believe also believe in real science. Science is science. Faith is something else altogether, even if science dispells its tenents,stories and dogmas.

[mstangmom]

The problem Fuzz is some, not all but some don't even want to give a little with scientific theories, and some not all but some don't even want to give a little to what the Bible says.

Yet both sides of the issues like this one can be right. look at all science has accomplished when it comes to our medical care? scientific theories save many lives of christians every day. on that same note the bible has been the reason for so many scientific theories.

Science and religion can work together they do not always have to agree

[my2cents]

It matters, because many want to push this garbage to be taught in our classrooms as a legitimate science. Since we are trading links, here is an agruement against all young earth theories, which really need no arguement, for not a one of them hold any weight in any intelligent debate. Here is the introduction and below is the link.

"Scientific" creationists boldly proclaim that, contrary to 200 years of scientific opinion, the physical evidence favors an age of the earth in the neighborhood of 6000 years. No miracles are needed, they say, to arrive at this biblically inspired figure. If the number of popular books written, lectures delivered, and debates staged conferred any degree of truth to an idea, "scientific" creationism would be taught today in every science classroom in America!

The scientific debate, of course, was settled long ago in favor of an old earth. Nevertheless, a belligerent crusade is kept alive in the public forum by the "scientific" creationists. I use quotations here because real scientists look at the data first and then determine if their hypotheses will fit in. The "Scientific" creationists, however, begin with their interpretation of the Bible which may not be questioned. They look at the data and decide whether or not the data will fit in. Supporting data are collected; contradictory data are assumed to be incomplete or erroneous. That is not science!

The scandalous truth, which is unknown to much of the public, is that the arguments of "scientific" creationism are not only bad but shockingly bad. Some of their most popular arguments have rested solely upon obsolete data! Misrepresentation of the data are commonplace. Discrepant data are routinely ignored! In short, there is a wholesale lack of professional scientific integrity among the "scientific" creationists. (It is usually a case of creationists copying from each other or indulging in wishful thinking rather than outright dishonesty.) This wholesale lack of integrity, resulting in bastardized science, has no place in our public classrooms!

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-dr.html

[madfootballfan]

This is a joke.

[fuzzhead]

Science - like faith - can be twisted to suit all kinds of evil purposes. Look at some of the "science experiments" the NAZIs performed on human beings. Are nuclear weapons for the "betterment of man"? The blanket statement "Science is for the betterment of man" is incredibly misinformed. Science is only as good as the people who utilize it.

[kantuckyII]

Again, my belief is, if science conflicts with the scriptures, the science is wrong but...again, this is not about the Bible, this isn't about anything..other than..tissue that is supposedly 20 million years old or something like that is soft and pliable. I've seen other scientist say that they actually believe they can start peeling DNA out of it...we might actually see dinosaurs walking on the earth..just like they did before the flood