Anti-SB 5 Group has collected more than 714,000 signatures

[Boonedawg]

Make your own jobs don't wait to suckle the public teat. Cops, Firemen and teachers make a good living and probably couldn't handle a production job. Kills me to see the whining by folks that really don't work all that hard when guys busting their arses get nothing but what they REALLY earn. I'd love to take the whole lot of them to work with me and watch them quit before the first day was over.

When and where, tough guy?

When and where what? You trying to call me out for stating my opinion? Be darn careful what you ask for...i might not be 3000 miles away right now....tough guy.

[wildthingRV]

Make your own jobs don't wait to suckle the public teat. Cops, Firemen and teachers make a good living and probably couldn't handle a production job. Kills me to see the whining by folks that really don't work all that hard when guys busting their arses get nothing but what they REALLY earn. I'd love to take the whole lot of them to work with me and watch them quit before the first day was over.

When and where, tough guy?

When and where what? You trying to call me out for stating my opinion? Be darn careful what you ask for...i might not be 3000 miles away right now....tough guy.

You challenged me and my co-workers to ONE day at your job. I think I'm good for one day of anything. So, when and where?

[Boonedawg]

Dutch Harbor, Alaska. January 3....and there ain't just 1 day slick, the boat doesn't turn around for seasick children. I'm confident I won't see you there. BTW I am the one that would be your boss, so I hope you can hang onto crab pots in 60 mph sustained winds at -20 temps for about 60 hours withought ending up with poopy pants and in a fetal position.

[wildthingRV]

Dutch Harbor, Alaska. January 3....and there ain't just 1 day slick, the boat doesn't turn around for seasick children. I'm confident I won't see you there.

Already going back on yourself. You said one day. That time of year I can give you a day, but not too much more. I'm pretty confident that I won't be ditching work to go win a bet. My job is more important. Come up with a way to actually deliver the challange you issued, and we'll see. Otherwise, you don't really mean enough to me to blow my personal days.

I've never been seasick in my life, and it would be nice to see the Bering Sea again.

[KVDW]

I've never been seasick in my life, and it would be nice to see the Bering Sea again.

uhhh, that'd be the OVERbering sea for YOU, dude.

whatsa matter, haven't found a name that i called you yet?


THE DEAL STILL STANDS !!!!

[wildthingRV]

You didn't call me anything until that post. You keep insisting I've called you a liar. That's what they name-calling thing was about.

[KVDW]

You didn't call me anything until that post.

then you're finally admitting that YOU'RE the liar, not me. thank you. you flat out lied when you said i was name calling.

i'm totally amazed that a teacher, a supposed "professional", would get on a public site and bemoan his personal problems for all the world to see and possibly even the kids he teaches. teachers used to be held in the highest esteem in the community but no longer. I WONDER WHY ??


also, a little advice with your permission. i wouldn't go messin' with Boonie Dawggie. anybody that does what he does for a living ain't no chippy.

[abuck76]

TO KVDW- Teachers are being denegrated for doing an impossible job...........What wildthing and I do is more important than most jobs......We are counselors, mentors, nurses, preachers, moms, dads, and anything else that child needs during the day..........If you haven't got anything nice to say about teachers, I would just say to you, say thank you and be on your way..........And as to booney, he puts his pants on the same as I.

TO booney, it is quite obvious you are someone trying to be recognized......Must be trying to compensate for something...........You are a fisherman...O.K....we get it.......And that makes you differet than every other worker how?......Some people have jobs that work hard, work in dangerous situations, work little, work long hours, short hours, every kind of worker...............The point is you chose your career.....Now that could be because of family, lack of an education, or for whatever reson........But never think you are better than anyone else because you are a fisherman.............Doesn't make you more of a man or less..........I have more rspect for a man that takes care of his family without bragging.........If you are a parent, that is your job............. :12224

[KVDW]

TO KVDW- Teachers are being denegrated for doing an impossible job...........

TO ABUCK76: no, actually some teachers are being DENIGRATED for getting on a public site and running their whiny mouth and showing their immaturity and ignorance.

i would imagine wildthang does well at being a Mom to the children.

[KVDW]

TO KVDW- Teachers are being denegrated for doing an impossible job...........What wildthing and I do is more important than most jobs......We are counselors, mentors, nurses, preachers, moms, dads, and anything else that child needs during the day..........If you haven't got anything nice to say about teachers, I would just say to you, say thank you and be on your way..........And as to booney, he puts his pants on the same as I.

TO booney, it is quite obvious you are someone trying to be recognized......Must be trying to compensate for something...........You are a fisherman...O.K....we get it.......And that makes you differet than every other worker how?......Some people have jobs that work hard, work in dangerous situations, work little, work long hours, short hours, every kind of worker...............The point is you chose your career.....Now that could be because of family, lack of an education, or for whatever reson But never think you are better than anyone else because you are a fisherman.............Doesn't make you more of a man or less..........I have more rspect for a man that takes care of his family without bragging.........If you are a parent, that is your job............. :12224

and you got your degree from what college ? apparently they didn't emphasize proof reading what you "professionals" put out for public display too much and setting a good example. some of us look up to you folks for role models ya know.

[abuck76]

That is all you have? I did not proof read? .............. I can live with that........ :12224

[KVDW]

nope.... again your lack of thoroughness caused you to miss this one.....or maybe you're just like wildthang and you just pick and choose the easy ones to respond to...
---------------
abuck76 wrote:

TO KVDW- Teachers are being denegrated for doing an impossible job...........


KVDW wrote:

TO ABUCK76: no, actually some teachers are being DENIGRATED for getting on a public site and running their whiny mouth and showing their immaturity and ignorance.

i would imagine wildthang does well at being a Mom to the children.

[Charley Hustle]

nope.... again your lack of thoroughness caused you to miss this one.....or maybe you're just like wildthang and you just pick and choose the easy ones to respond to...
---------------
abuck76 wrote:

TO KVDW- Teachers are being denegrated for doing an impossible job...........


KVDW wrote:

TO ABUCK76: no, actually some teachers are being DENIGRATED for getting on a public site and running their whiny mouth and showing their immaturity and ignorance.

i would imagine wildthang does well at being a Mom to the children.

[toast]

Nearly 1.3 million signatures which is a record.

November can't get here fast enough. Too bad our governor doesn't get it. I honestly can't believe how extreme he has turned out to be.

[Boonedawg]

*Yawn* Funny psych analysis buckey. Just think it's funny how you guys think you do such impossible jobs(brilliant joke btw) and get your panties in a wad when you have to pay your share of your own retirement. Kind of like whiny children that are expected to tie their own shoes but are too lazy to do it themselves and run to mommy and throw a baby fit.

[Raiderball]

I am a teacher. I hope it is okay for me to post on this thread.

Don't remember who said what but...
1) I don't get paid for not working in the summer. I get paid for working 182 days and choose to spread that pay over 12 months. Normally I laugh when I hear people say that because I think there is no way they really believe that. On this site, not so sure.

2) I do pay my share into my retirement. I think I read somewhere that I pay 4% more into STRS than what private sector employees pay into SS. On top of that I have been paying into a TSA for about 20 years now. The STRS sustains itself. As for Kasich plan in SB5... The STRS board has already came out with plans to ensure(sp?) the system will be able to sustain itself.

3) Many school districts have (mine included) has voted in/accepted contracts in the last 6-8 yrs with no raises. Some are paying more for insurance. Some are might have taken raises but are paying more for their insurance.

4) Secretary pay - I think, not certain, at our high school they(2)make $20-$25K per year. I have no idea their hourly pay or the number of days they work per year.

I'm anxious to see/hear how this merit pay (which they have now included in the 2 year budget) is going to work out.

[KVDW]

I am a teacher. I hope it is okay for me to post on this thread.

Don't remember who said what but...
1) I don't get paid for not working in the summer. I get paid for working 182 days and choose to spread that pay over 12 months. Normally I laugh when I hear people say that because I think there is no way they really believe that. On this site, not so sure.
this subject has been a source for discussion for years and years. with all due respect, that may be the way your contract reads and it's very easy to spin it that way but the fact remains that you work and get paid for nine months every year and you DON'T WORK and still get paid for the other three months of the year. you can, if you so chose, work those 3 summer months at other employment without hobbles from the BOE and be able to pay for ALL your insurance for the entire year or you can go to tahiti for the summer if you want and continue to complain (like some of these other folks)..

i use two simple questions to arrive at MY conclusion:

1. do i work the 3 summer months? ........ YES/NO.

2. do i get paid for those same 3 summer months? YES/NO.

again, with all due respect, spin it however you like but it still comes up to the old saying.... six of one, half a dozen of the other....

2) I do pay my share into my retirement. I think I read somewhere that I pay 4% more into STRS than what private sector employees pay into SS. (you probably read something wildthang wrote.. On top of that I have been paying into a TSA for about 20 years now. The STRS sustains itself. As for Kasich plan in SB5... The STRS board has already came out with plans to ensure(sp?) the system will be able to sustain itself.

i agree. STRS and PERS are and should be self sustaining and SB5 should not affect either one.....unless, of course, the state and/or country goes kapoot (and the STRS and PERS investment portfolios go with them) and then none of us will have any "retirement". :122247 however, some of these boys on here would have you believe they will work their 30 years (about 15 years less than most private sector workers must work to retire) and they will be left high and dry due to SB5. not true.

3) Many school districts have (mine included) has voted in/accepted contracts in the last 6-8 yrs with no raises. Some are paying more for insurance. Some are might have taken raises but are paying more for their insurance.

those are tough choices that must be made and it would be a matter of simple math (considering all the variables) to figure out which way you come out ahead.
i never have been able to figure out the "raises" thing. fifty years ago guys made $2.00 an hour and bread was 20 cents a loaf. now guys make $20.00 an hour and bread is $2.00 a loaf. what has been gained.... except keeping the union bosses living in their lavish lifestyles all those years.
if it continues this same way we'll end up like mexico and have to take a wheelbarrow full of cash to the grocery to get a loaf of bread. we (the workers) are gaining nothing!!

4) Secretary pay - I think, not certain, at our high school they(2)make $20-$25K per year. I have no idea their hourly pay or the number of days they work per year.

the "boys" on here have tunnel vision. they are thinking in terms of school employees ONLY while the subject is SB5, which includes ALL public workers so if you are making reference to the secretary i made mention of, she did NOT work in a school system and the figure i stated was quite accurate. check out some of the other "state departments" for salaries. you can find the names and salaries of all state employees (including yours) in the Dept. of Administrative Services. it's a matter of public record by law.

I'm anxious to see/hear how this merit pay (which they have now included in the 2 year budget) is going to work out.

i'm with you on that. i'm not sure how that is going to be done.... AND how fairly it can/will be done. will it be a matter of who sucks up to the principal the most? will the Super's daughter-in-law get more because "she does a fine job" ?
i, too, am anxious to see how that works

BUT, it appears that SB5 will have to pass the muster on a vote this fall so all this may be for naught anyway.

btw.... thank you for not complaining and whining like some others but rather posting your info and opinions in "matter of facts" style.

[Raiderball]

I am a teacher. I hope it is okay for me to post on this thread.

Don't remember who said what but...
1) I don't get paid for not working in the summer. I get paid for working 182 days and choose to spread that pay over 12 months. Normally I laugh when I hear people say that because I think there is no way they really believe that. On this site, not so sure.
this subject has been a source for discussion for years and years. with all due respect, that may be the way your contract reads and it's very easy to spin it that way but the fact remains that you work and get paid for nine months every year and you DON'T WORK and still get paid for the other three months of the year. you can, if you so chose, work those 3 summer months at other employment without hobbles from the BOE and be able to pay for ALL your insurance for the entire year or you can go to tahiti for the summer if you want and continue to complain (like some of these other folks)..

i use two simple questions to arrive at MY conclusion:

1. do i work the 3 summer months? ........ YES/NO.

2. do i get paid for those same 3 summer months? YES/NO.

again, with all due respect, spin it however you like but it still comes up to the old saying.... six of one, half a dozen of the other....

2) I do pay my share into my retirement. I think I read somewhere that I pay 4% more into STRS than what private sector employees pay into SS. (you probably read something wildthang wrote.. On top of that I have been paying into a TSA for about 20 years now. The STRS sustains itself. As for Kasich plan in SB5... The STRS board has already came out with plans to ensure(sp?) the system will be able to sustain itself.

i agree. STRS and PERS are and should be self sustaining and SB5 should not affect either one.....unless, of course, the state and/or country goes kapoot (and the STRS and PERS investment portfolios go with them) and then none of us will have any "retirement". :122247 however, some of these boys on here would have you believe they will work their 30 years (about 15 years less than most private sector workers must work to retire) and they will be left high and dry due to SB5. not true.

3) Many school districts have (mine included) has voted in/accepted contracts in the last 6-8 yrs with no raises. Some are paying more for insurance. Some are might have taken raises but are paying more for their insurance.

those are tough choices that must be made and it would be a matter of simple math (considering all the variables) to figure out which way you come out ahead.
i never have been able to figure out the "raises" thing. fifty years ago guys made $2.00 an hour and bread was 20 cents a loaf. now guys make $20.00 an hour and bread is $2.00 a loaf. what has been gained.... except keeping the union bosses living in their lavish lifestyles all those years.
if it continues this same way we'll end up like mexico and have to take a wheelbarrow full of cash to the grocery to get a loaf of bread. we (the workers) are gaining nothing!!

4) Secretary pay - I think, not certain, at our high school they(2)make $20-$25K per year. I have no idea their hourly pay or the number of days they work per year.

the "boys" on here have tunnel vision. they are thinking in terms of school employees ONLY while the subject is SB5, which includes ALL public workers so if you are making reference to the secretary i made mention of, she did NOT work in a school system and the figure i stated was quite accurate. check out some of the other "state departments" for salaries. you can find the names and salaries of all state employees (including yours) in the Dept. of Administrative Services. it's a matter of public record by law.

I'm anxious to see/hear how this merit pay (which they have now included in the 2 year budget) is going to work out.

i'm with you on that. i'm not sure how that is going to be done.... AND how fairly it can/will be done. will it be a matter of who sucks up to the principal the most? will the Super's daughter-in-law get more because "she does a fine job" ?
i, too, am anxious to see how that works

BUT, it appears that SB5 will have to pass the muster on a vote this fall so all this may be for naught anyway.

btw.... thank you for not complaining and whining like some others but rather posting your info and opinions in "matter of facts" style.

1. like you said, spin it any way you want. Fact is, if we went to year round school, I am going to be paid for those added days in session. yes, i could work those three months if I choose. Some teachers do, some don't. Let me set you straight though... I'm not going to be able to spend the summer in Tahiti on my pay. I guess maybe I should request my pay over 9 months instead of 12. Then the argument of me being paid and not working goes out the window then.

2. Haven't been reading any of wildthing's writings. Came from an editorial from Columbus Dispatch. Written by and "expert" on pension funds. I believe the STRS play was for employee's to pay in an additional 2%-3% and work 35 yrs and age 60.

3. If my contract gives me a pay raise but requires I pay more on my insurance, that means my retirement pay will be more.

4. I was just using "school" secretary pay because I have recently looked it up.

[KVDW]

perhaps the 12 months school year would be a solution teachers might opt for then. it would not only increase your annual salary by 25% but would also vastly improve your retirement income.

you may have a problem getting that effected though since (according to the info below) about 75% of the teachers are female and a majority of those are second family jobs as opposed to family breadwinner jobs.... and the girls DO like their summers off.
----------------------------------------


A projected 3.7 million full-time-equivalent (FTE) elementary and secondary school teachers were engaged in classroom instruction in fall 2009. This number has risen 12 percent since 1999. The 2009 projected number of FTE teachers includes 3.2 million public school teachers and 0.5 million private school teachers.

Selected Characteristics
•In 2007–08, some 76 percent of public school teachers were female, 44 percent were under age 40, and 52 percent had a master’s or higher degree. Compared with public school teachers, a lower percentage of private school teachers were female (74 percent), were under age 40 (39 percent), and had a master’s or higher degree (38 percent).
Pupil/Teacher Ratio
• For public schools, the number of pupils per teacher—that is, the pupil/teacher ratio —declined from 22.3 in 1970 to 17.9 in 1985. After 1985, the public school pupil/teacher ratio continued to decline, reaching 17.2 in 1989. After a period of relative stability during the late 1980s through the mid-1990s, the ratio declined from 17.3 in 1995 to 16.0 in 2000. Decreases have continued since then, and the public school pupil/teacher ratio was 15.5 in 2007. By comparison, the pupil/teacher ratio for private schools was 13.0 in 2007. The average class size in 2007–08 was 20.0 pupils for public elementary schools and 23.4 pupils for public secondary schools.



•The number of public school teachers has risen faster than the number of public school students over the past 10 years, resulting in declines in the pupil/teacher ratio (table 64). In the fall of 2009, there were a projected 15.3 public school pupils per teacher, compared with 16.1 public school pupils per teacher 10 years earlier.


Salary
• The average salary for public school teachers in 2008–09 was $53,910, about 2 percent higher than in 1998–99, after adjustment for inflation. The salaries of public school teachers have generally maintained pace with inflation since 1990–91.



Mobility
•Of the 3,380,300 public school teachers who were teaching during the 2007-08 school year, 84.5 percent remained at the same school (“stayers”), 7.6 percent moved to a different school (“movers”), and 8.0 percent left the profession (“leavers”) during the following year. Among the 487,300 private school teachers who were teaching during the 2007-08 school year, 79.2 percent were stayers, 4.9 percent were movers, and 15.9 percent were leavers.
• About 26.2 percent of public school teacher movers changed schools in 2008–09 because of personal life factors, compared to 16.0 percent of private teacher movers. About 5.3 percent of public school teacher leavers left teaching in 2008–09 because their contract was not renewed, compared to 13.0 percent of private school teacher leavers.

SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education

[KVDW]

My contract isn't breaking the budget, nor is my union, so why am I included?

i have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the unfortunate.