SoutheasternOhioPreps.com

What has happened to all the decent refs at the J.V. level? My daughter plays Jv ball for Northwest, and 2 times now this year I have watched the Refs let the game get out of control. If you are unsure about making a call or what call to make you probably shouldn't be on the court with these kids. We need people who know the game refing, not people wanting to make some extra cash. I'm sure everyone knows about what happened at New Boston, and then last night we watched almost the same type of game at Valley. A girl should be able to make a jump shot without getting punched in the back while in mid air, and yes that happened to my daughter last night. I don't blame the girls on the court I blame the Refs for not making the calls, that led up to the game getting that out of hand. I go to watch these girls play basketball, I'm not there to watch a boxing match.

One thing I dont like seeing is someone ref'ing a game of a school they are an alum of.I know sometimes this cant be helped, but if with better planning it could.You would think the person would have enough sense to remove themselves from consideration or be switched to another game.

We had 2 home games where the ref's were very bad. Games turned into hockey matches . Had pretty good refs on the road. so far just 1 real weak crew that did those 2 games

Good and great Refs are going to get harder to find because of the bs that happens during the game with coach's, parents, fans etc. Most people dont want to put up with that kind of nuisance. As far as reffing at your alma mater, that shouldnt matter. As far as getting a paycheck, refs are paid very little with regards to travel time, patience, and expense for equipment. I am a ref and a parent of a bball player. Out of roughly 10 games so far this year, i can only remember one game that was officiated properly. now, you're a;ways going to have one or two bad calls during a game, the law of averages sees to that. Keep in mind that most fans dont know the rules like they think they do. I have always joked that you shouldnt be able to watch a ball game without first taking a class. The reason I said that 9 out of 10 games were not officiated properly were that lots of officials want to do it "their" way and not by the book. A couple examples:

Points of Emphasis from OHSAA:

closely guarded rule: closely guarded is when a defensive player is in legal guarding position(facing offensive player) and within 6 feet. a count should take place. the count starts over if the player dribbles the ball or the ball is picked up.

my take: many refs are either too lazy or dont believe in the rule. 6 feet is a long way. not enforcing this rule only helps the offense taking away one of the few rules that help a defense. Most refs wont even start counting until a def player has been guarding for 2 or 3 seconds which turns the 5 second count into a 7 or 8 second count.


another point of emphasis this year

the offensive player initiating contact with defensive player in the post: this is a player control foul. this called very few times compared to the number of times its actually happens in games. again, old school types dont believe in it. once again, the defense suffers because of the neglect of the rule. in fact, in most cases, the defensive player gets called for a foul.


the poe's or points of emphasis are straight from OHSAA quarterly. keep these rules and poe's in mind when u watch your next ball game. Happy Spectating.

Hope this helps.

of the games I have been to the refs call too many touch fools--I was at one of the girls games and a girl was on a fast break and the ref called the foul on the defender about two feet before she was touched--happened right in front of me as I was going for popcorn

I love the "over the back" call that fans ask for that isn't even a call at all!

marklane wrote:I love the "over the back" call that fans ask for that isn't even a call at all!

technically it is a call, it is just called a push.
I don't like seeing the "old" officials that are lazy. A couple of times I saw one sitting in the stands during timeouts. Also the officials that toss people and fight with people. No place for these officials. Assigners should get rid of these officials and make room for younger up and coming officials or great veteran officials.

I to see some really bad refs from time to time. My answer is this..If you really have a serious problem with how the games are called and they are that bad then get off your duff and go take the class and see if you can do better. Everyone Bit*hs about how there are very few good ones but no one steps up an tries it...

These guys are ALWAYS WRONG, No matter what the call is half the gym wants to hang'em. These guys( and ladies) get called names, threatened, stuff thrown at them, I have heard of refs getting there tires slashed.....and everyone wonders why we can't seem to find any good ones.

where would the fun in that be??????

Orange and Brown wrote:I to see some really bad refs from time to time. My answer is this..If you really have a serious problem with how the games are called and they are that bad then get off your duff and go take the class and see if you can do better. Everyone Bit*hs about how there are very few good ones but no one steps up an tries it...

These guys are ALWAYS WRONG, No matter what the call is half the gym wants to hang'em. These guys( and ladies) get called names, threatened, stuff thrown at them, I have heard of refs getting there tires slashed.....and everyone wonders why we can't seem to find any good ones.

Great post!!! Dead on!!! If you don't like it, do something about it. Don't blame the ref, blame the AD, he or she hired them!! Would you hire a mediocre electrician to wire your house? Truth be known, 99% of AD's don't care about the officials they hire for 7th, 8th, 9th and JV games. They are more concerned with just filling the position with warm bodies. The reason you don't get good official for the lower level games is if they are any good, they move up quickly to Varsity. So you will either have young class II officials working they're way up, or old timers that never got good enough to move up.

Anyone who is on this site needs to click on the website above. Marklane-Ohio Express. This is so true!!!!

The thing is with all ref's in all sports. Most of the "good" officials are either going to the collegiate level or doing more traveling to get away from the SOC. Mainly due to the obvious, fans, coaches, players, etc.

And it's going to start in the same place that players are struggling to get, and that's early development. The instructors and assessors need to do a better job. But, these are also the people that are taking THEIR time to officiate these games for the kids. Believe me, nothing make me more upset as a player than having an official that doesn't know what they are doing. But let's give them a little slack.

INSTRUCTORS and ASSESSORS need to pick up the slack and educate all the ref's.

Regulator wrote:

marklane wrote:I love the "over the back" call that fans ask for that isn't even a call at all!

technically it is a call, it is just called a push.
I don't like seeing the "old" officials that are lazy. A couple of times I saw one sitting in the stands during timeouts. Also the officials that toss people and fight with people. No place for these officials. Assigners should get rid of these officials and make room for younger up and coming officials or great veteran officials.

not trying to start an argument but i have seen it called several times in jr. high, j.v., & varsity game's.

I just perused the OHSAA rulebook and there is no "over the back" call. The proper call is a "push" which i already knew. always funny hearing fans yell "over the back".

pretty much spot on mark lane on the rules part of it.

1) For there to be a foul there has to be contact. So it is very possible for a player from behind to get a rebound without fouling the player in front. (extreme example player in front is 5'6", player in back is 6'6", if the ball bounces to a point directly over the player in front i bet the player in the back gets the rebound without fouling.

2) Jr Hi and Jv games are harder to referee. The main reason for this is the skill level at the varsity level is better and this just makes sense. The players at the varsity level are usually more experienced and a little more mature.

3) Sorry fans (i.e. Bleacher creatures) but 99.9% of the time you don't have a better view than the refs. Do we miss calls? You bet, Do we get our view blocked? yes sir. But I'm not going to change the way I call agame because you think you know my mother or you think I'm terrible.

4) Officials if you question other officials talk to them about it (in the right way) but keep it in the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood Of Officials. B.O.O for short.

Could we please give it a break on the technical terms for a player reaching over the shoulder/back in an attempt to get a rebound. (wait there is no such thing as a rebound --it's a missed shot.) OF FREAKIN COURSE IT"S COMMONLY CALLED " OVER THE BACK" It's been called that since peach baskets were used on the sides of barns. To attempt to slander or discredit a fan or coach when lobbying for that call because techinally "the good officials handbook " says it doesn't exist is shallow and stupid. get over your self

Regulator wrote:

marklane wrote:I love the "over the back" call that fans ask for that isn't even a call at all!

technically it is a call, it is just called a push.
I don't like seeing the "old" officials that are lazy. A couple of times I saw one sitting in the stands during timeouts. Also the officials that toss people and fight with people. No place for these officials. Assigners should get rid of these officials and make room for younger up and coming officials or great veteran officials.

No "over the back" is not a call. A push is not "over the back." But my all time favorite has to be "reach! You gotta call that reach!" Again, not a foul or a violation. Many fans are clueless, and biased. Just on this thread there are people posting that "refs are letting them foul too much," and some posting, "refs are calling to many touch fouls..." This is what you hear on the floor as an official as well. That is why most officials ignore the advice of fans. It is funny to listen to though.

They didn't change the "over the back" call to a "push" to eliminate the foul..they changed it for reporting-sake to the scores table. The foul is still the same just simple classified under a "push" foul now.

a reach is not a foul... but the actual part where the hand meets the other players body is.... right or did i miss something.....what should a fan call it ?