D2 Southeastern Sectional

bman618 · Post by **bman618** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:14 pm

Captain Jack, I completely disagree with you. A team can learn a lot more from a loss to a very solid team like Prep, Reynoldsburg or Canal than learn from beating a crap team by 40. Beating a clearly inferior team does nothing for you.

Logan Elm has beaten Hamilton Township twice, Circleville twice, Columbus Westland and Fairfield Union twice. You can also throw in a win over Zane Trace but I'd consider the ones above more significant.

Logan Elm was missing one of its good players in the Harvest Prep game and battled through a couple of injuries early. I think that played a part in the Prep loss. The Adena loss was not good at all. Canal was just better.

MHS, Circleville's basketball starting lineup includes its quarterback, tight end, wide receiver and backup quarterback. The seventh man off the bench was a wide receiver also. So Circleville relied heavy on its football players too. Circleville has looked a bit off in the last three games. Hopefully they get a second wind for the tournament.

And like I said earlier, ultimately the tournament will prove which league is better.

bman618 · Post by **bman618** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:17 pm

Captain Jack, a lot of people wonder why the SE doesn't do good in the postseason for the most part. While there are a lot of reasons for this, one is the fact that many SE teams play a soft schedule during the course of the season, aren't tested and then get blown out in the first round against a team that has been tested, improved from those tests and battled adversity. The above is a football example but can be applied to other sports as well.

bman618 · Post by **bman618** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:26 pm

Captain, I agree wins are need too but if Team A went 17-3, played a good schedule and suffered a couple of losses to solid opponents and Team B goes 19-1 and plays a soft schedule, I'm going with Team A.

mhs82 · Post by **mhs82** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:57 pm

SOS is way overrated. The New England Patriots could have played all high school teams this year and they would still be the best team in the NFL. Having the right players, coaches, and match ups is more important than SOS. McClain played a pretty good SOS last year, but they did not advance out of the Districts - losing to a team that lost to two of the best teams on McClains schedule (Chilli lost to Burg and Desales - both teams that McClain had beaten). They've won Districts playing much weaker schedules. The SE does not fair well in the Regionals because it is not a level playing field with parochials and inner city schools who can recruit players or who get more court time because grades don't matter. SE teams are typically home grown and typically don't far well vs. city all-star teams. SE teams usually just don't match up well with these teams - Chillicothe may end up being the exception, especially since they avoid a Central District team until Final 4. Back in 1986 and 1987, McClain got shipped out of Athens to have to play their Regional Finals in Dayton and Columbus vs. Greenon (lost in triple OT) and DeSales (by only 1 point and DeSales went on to win the state). McClain just got screwed by the luck of the draw getting shipped out of Athens both years - the only years it has happened by the way. SOS had nothing to do with anything, luck of the draw and matchups everything.

bman, in your example, I would take Team B if that team was North Carolina playing a soft schedule and Team A was OSU playing solid opponents. UNC is just better. Also, who really decides what is a "solid" opponent. Unless everyone plays everyone else, how do we know? We usually find out during college March Madness that some teams we believed to be "solid" were not, and teams we never imaged were "solid" end up being very good.

Sweet Pea · Post by **Sweet Pea** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:09 pm

captain

you sound too much like hawkeye.. "don't want to play a "killer" schedule and hurt the kids psyche" - give me a break. No one is asking someone like Vinton Co. to play Toledo Libbey, Canal, Chilly, and Dayton Dunbar all in the same yr. - that is ridiculous!

But if VC is EVER going to get out of the district (or sectional - at times) with their weak TVC sched. They need to play a non-league schedule like - Portsmouth, Logan, Warren, Chilly, Gallia, etc.... teams of that caliber. And there is no reason to not schedule ALL 5 next yr. - you don't have to play the small tvc teams anymore. Granted you won't be 19-1 at the end of the yr. But if you can go 3-2 (or 2-3) against those 5 solid non-league teams, then you have built a foundation to suceed in the STATE tourny - not just set your sights on the sectional championship.

late,
sweetpea

bman618 · Post by **bman618** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:56 am

We'll agree to disagree. I've heard many times from coaches I respect, 'We weren't tested enough during the season, we should have played a tougher schedule.'

vchoops · Post by **vchoops** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:05 am

sweet pea,

VC is playing Logan next year.

mhs82 · Post by **mhs82** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:23 am

VC gave Chillicothe a pretty good game in Athens last year - VC just tuckered out in the end. I have also seen VC give McClain all they want in the District. VC's schedule is just fine. Getting tested early in the year just means you wear your team out both physically and mentally by the time it counts. Besides, even if they schedule Portsmouth, Gallia, Logan, Chilli, or Warren, it does not mean those teams will be any good by the time the meeting rolls around. H.S. schools need to stop travelling all over the state and stay close to home and play for their fans and develop local rivalries. The "match ups of the best teams in the state" in these basketball "classics" are not for the players or the fans. They are money grabs and used to satisfy some adults unhealthy over obsession for high school basketball. You wanna see all-star teams, go to AAU games. Wanna see high school basketball the way it was meant to be played, go to see Hillsboro v. Greenfield, North Adams v. Whiteoak, Adena v. Huntington, Logan Elm v. Circleville, (insert your local rivalry here).

Lamont Cranston · Post by **Lamont Cranston** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:24 am

Mhs, the last SE District team to win the state in D2 (Portsmouth in 1988) was "shipped-out" or "screwed" by playing their regional that year in Dayton.

nickle back · Post by **nickle back** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:20 am

It is a shame the last 4 years were not set up the same as it is this year. Mclain would of probably made the trip to the final four a couple times as well as Chillicothe last season.
The only way any team coming in from the East district stays within double digits of Chillicothe is if Chambers or Hitchens gets injured. They will not be tested until the State Semi finals.

Hitchbone64 · Post by **Hitchbone64** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:35 am

nickle back wrote:It is a shame the last 4 years were not set up the same as it is this year. Mclain would of probably made the trip to the final four a couple times as well as Chillicothe last season.
The only way any team coming in from the East district stays within double digits of Chillicothe is if Chambers or Hitchens gets injured. They will not be tested until the State Semi finals.

nickleback,

Not so fast my friend. The Sectional and District does have quality teams in it. I agree if the Cavs are playing on all cylinders they should do well, but we tend to forget that we do not and have not fired on all cylinders yet.

We were losing to Marietta well into the second qtr. We have had bad stretches in many games this year, but fortunately the level of comp this year alllowed us to over come. I am not sandbagging, but we have not played Logan Elm, Greenfield, Vinton County or any of the other higher seeds. Kids need to keep their focus on work on gettng better.

This will sound crazy, but last night against Athens, our starters did not play well. We had poor defensive rotations, some sloppy turnovers (mental), and we missed to many layups and freethrows. Some of that happens when you are playing a team that is obviously shorthanded, but mental execution is the key.

I remember a few years back, Greenfield McClain must pretty much handed the District title from many pundits around the area. What happened..they lost. I do expect our veteran team to keep their focus, but these are 16-18 year old kids.

GO CAVS!!!

mhs82 · Post by **mhs82** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:41 am

Lamont Cranston wrote:Mhs, the last SE District team to win the state in D2 (Portsmouth in 1988) was "shipped-out" or "screwed" by playing their regional that year in Dayton.

I meant the only years it happened to McClain - sorry for the confusion. Those two years were arguably the best back to back teams ever at McClain and probably should have won the State. When I reread what I posted, I can see why you took it that way.

mhs82 · Post by **mhs82** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:44 am

hitchbone64 wrote:
nickle back wrote:It is a shame the last 4 years were not set up the same as it is this year. Mclain would of probably made the trip to the final four a couple times as well as Chillicothe last season.
The only way any team coming in from the East district stays within double digits of Chillicothe is if Chambers or Hitchens gets injured. They will not be tested until the State Semi finals.

nickleback,

Not so fast my friend. The Sectional and District does have quality teams in it. I agree if the Cavs are playing on all cylinders they should do well, but we tend to forget that we do not and have not fired on all cylinders yet.

We were losing to Marietta well into the second qtr. We have had bad stretches in many games this year, but fortunately the level of comp this year alllowed us to over come. I am not sandbagging, but we have not played Logan Elm, Greenfield, Vinton County or any of the other higher seeds. Kids need to keep their focus on work on gettng better.

This will sound crazy, but last night against Athens, our starters did not play well. We had poor defensive rotations, some sloppy turnovers (mental), and we missed to many layups and freethrows. Some of that happens when you are playing a team that is obviously shorthanded, but mental execution is the key.

I remember a few years back, Greenfield McClain must pretty much handed the District title from many pundits around the area. What happened..they lost. I do expect our veteran team to keep their focus, but these are 16-18 year old kids.

GO CAVS!!!

I was waiting for a Chilli fan to post something like this. You are totally right and if the Cavs loose focus or look ahead, they will be watching McClain or LE in the Regional finals. Chilli is by far the best team in the SE, but upsets happen, especially if one team is seeking revenge.

tiger_1992 · Post by **tiger_1992** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:42 am

Thats why they play the games and not just hand over the trophy!!!

Dshanton3 · Post by **Dshanton3** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:00 pm

you guys are exactly right. luckily i think we have enough senior leadership that the kids are going to realize all their dreams can be flushed down the drain if they dont come out with great intensity and focus every tournament game. and i believe they will come out hungry.

gobraves90 · Post by **gobraves90** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:11 pm

Given a choice I would rather play a tougher schedule, but what really will make the difference is what a team and coach do with it. A case in point that will have an impact on the Southeast District is what just happened at Logan Elm on Saturday. LE played Canal Winchester (in front of a sold out crowd no less), and put together a unique defense against BJ Mullens, doubling him down low with Largent and B. Blake, and playing zone with their other three players. As far as holding Mullens down, it worked. He only scored 12 points. What killed LE was that the supporting cast was able to hit 3s against the zone. So what did LE learn from the game? They learned that if they focused their efforts, they can shut down an elite scorer, even one as physically dominating as BJ Mullens. They also learned that they might not be athletic enough from top to bottom to complete the execution of such a defense. Now they have to take that lesson and apply it to their tournament opponents. If one of those happens to beWarren or Chillicothe, it will be intersting to see how the approach changes (and it will have to change, because the athletes are very different). But even in a 15 point loss, Logan Elm was able to do some things against Canal that very few others have been able to do (and nobody in the MSL!). If those lessons can be turned into a berth in a district final (3rd in 4 years), then the loss was worth it.

bman618 · Post by **bman618** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:53 pm

Logan Elm also wasn't hitting very well from outside. They had 4-5 shots rim out in the first half. Holding Canal to 60 wasn't bad. I've seen them put 75 or more up with ease this season, but you also have to be hitting on offense and Logan Elm wasn't. Ideally, LE probably needed to hold Canal to 50-55.

gobraves90 · Post by **gobraves90** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:33 pm

I'd agree with that, bman. In fact I seem to remember posting on another forum that I would like my chances if was in the low 50s with two mintues to go. Still, I can't think of another team in the MSL that has held Canal to 60 or less. You gotta take the good where its available in a game like that.

pio24 · Post by **pio24** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:57 pm

Fairfield Union lost to Canal Winchester 62-46 the first time they played and they held Mullens to 15 points and 4 rebounds, Nelson only had nine points but teh other players stepped up and hurt them. It's hard to guard all of them!!