Division IV Southeast District Tournament teams/records

[jimmy chipwood]

I realize this will be highly criticized but who says that the coaches have to be the ones who seed the teams. I really believe that if teams just submitted their schedules to the SouthEast District Board they could seed the teams more accurately than the coaches who only have their own interest in mind.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Futurebkstar, I thought would help you out, ISJ did lose to New Boston but it was December 12th

[Snowman]

so jimmy you would trust the board to seed the teams when they represent school districts involved in tournament?

i would be the first one to say you cannot go by record alone. let's create a computer program for strength of schedule/win-loss record/home-away factors

otherwise, how would that take out the human factor?

[jimmy chipwood]

so jimmy you would trust the board to seed the teams when they represent school districts involved in tournament?

how would that take out the human factor?

No different than the NCAA committee - they have interest in their respected schools - but a committee means "several members" so no one individual can totally corrupt the brackets. Its not rocket science - it all comes down to who have you beaten and who have you lost to in your season! I totally agree with a rudimentary computer program that takes into account wins/losses, divisions (size of schools your playing), and opponents wins/losses and against what divisions they were.

To answer your question - No, I wouldnt totally trust the Board but as I said before I believe the seedings would be more accurate to reality.

[Snowman]

so you think it should have been what
sw 1
manchester 2
whiteoak 3
fairfield 4
green 5
and so on

if thats the case then clay could be 5 with green 6 since clay beat them twice

[Ironman92]

do it like football....it would be a little more fair....right now all that matters are:

Win/Loss % about 50%
League representation 40%
strength of schedule 10%



So IMO about 40% of it should not be a factor

[George Jones]

At basketball everybody is invited to the dance, so what is the big deal, if you have to beat a team in the 1st round or the second round you still have to beat them to move on.

[jimmy chipwood]

I didnt realize that Manchester has yet to beat Fairfield or Whiteoak this year. Fairfield has beaten them twice and Whiteoak beat Manchester by 2 and are scheduled to play again here shortly. This is probably the reason why they chose Manchester as the #3 seed instead of the other two. All I am saying is that Fairfield, Whiteoak, and Manchester (on a neutral court) will beat everybody in this sectional (except SW) 80-90% of the time including the #2 seed Green.

[sparky]

chip,

i believe whiteoak beat fairfield twice and split with manchester.
i believe fairfield and manchester split.
therefore using head to head whiteoak should have been two, manchester three, and fairfield four. since green lost to clay twice clay should have been five and green six.
so obviously head to head was not that big of deal for those voting.

[arrowman]

As long as the OHSAA and OHSBCA puts on the tournament the coaches will vote. Maybe, Nationwide, UHC should begin another tournament option, invite and seeding would be up to their committee.
Just a thought.

[jimmy chipwood]

chip,

i believe whiteoak beat fairfield twice and split with manchester.
i believe fairfield and manchester split.
therefore using head to head whiteoak should have been two, manchester three, and fairfield four. since green lost to clay twice clay should have been five and green six.
so obviously head to head was not that big of deal for those voting.

I was going by the scores on MaxPreps - they must be wrong because on there it has Fairfield beating Manchester twice and only playing Whiteoak once so far. My bad on the misinformation.

[jimmy chipwood]

As long as the OHSAA and OHSBCA puts on the tournament the coaches will vote. Maybe, Nationwide, UHC should begin another tournament option, invite and seeding would be up to their committee.
Just a thought.

So, "who puts on the State Football Tournament" (which uses computer rankings) - an out of state organization?

[arrowman]

Comparing apples and oranges. Less games to judge and not all teams get in. As far as any football info , I only get hooplines delivered to the box.

[Ironman92]

Whiteoak is 3-1 versus Manchester and Fairfield
Fairfield is 2-2 versus Manchester and Whiteoak
Manchester is 1-3 versus Whiteoak and Fairfield

[jchitwood]

Whiteoak is 3-1 versus Manchester and Fairfield
Fairfield is 2-2 versus Manchester and Whiteoak
Manchester is 1-3 versus Whiteoak and Fairfield

Manchester has had a strange year, where they've had a weak record against SHL teams, but have been solid when they leave their neighborhood. I think they're the better of the 3 teams listed.

[Ironman92]

they played you guys better....but lost to North Adams who Whiteoak beat twice and Fairfield defeated.

Fairfield beat Manchester twice

Whiteoak has had only 4 or 5 games at Whiteoak I believe..played 3 I think at Southern State

[Futurebkstar]

so do you think st joe is playing better ball right now?? This matchup happens soon. South gallia has won 6 of the last 8 losing to #3 southern and #1 oak hill

[socsportsfan1]

Ironman and chitwood give me a break. There have been years where the shl teams have voted together and given soc schools the shaft, just not recently. A big reason for that has been Manchester, who I believe has helped cast deciding votes in getting Whiteoak and Fairfield in the 4 vs. 5 slot the last two years. I think Green may be the weakest 2 seed I've seen, but do you honestly expect the SOC coaches to just throw out a red carpet for the SHL schools and acknowledge their superior strength of schedule and league? The strength of the SOC I runs in cycles, more than most, but it won't be too long again before a few of those SHL teams are down and then we'll see how the voting goes. You want the SHL to recieve better seeds, come in with more than a little over .500 record. The weakest team in the sectional can go and play "tough" teams and lose too. Win a few more of those "tough" ones, or schedule teams from the sectional, that would likely help.

[Ironman92]

The SHL teams have been down the past couple of years and they still for the most part have been better.

I'm sure Manchester may have assisted in getting WO and FF the #4/#5 spot...but that's not helping WO or FF

The SHL coaches are just 3....how many SOC coaches are there? East, ND, Green, Clay, NB, Western...how is teh SHL supposed to outvote that?

Leagues going in cycles has nothing to do with bad seedings this year.

[jimmy chipwood]

Ironman and chitwood give me a break. There have been years where the shl teams have voted together and given soc schools the shaft, just not recently. A big reason for that has been Manchester, who I believe has helped cast deciding votes in getting Whiteoak and Fairfield in the 4 vs. 5 slot the last two years. I think Green may be the weakest 2 seed I've seen, but do you honestly expect the SOC coaches to just throw out a red carpet for the SHL schools and acknowledge their superior strength of schedule and league? The strength of the SOC I runs in cycles, more than most, but it won't be too long again before a few of those SHL teams are down and then we'll see how the voting goes. You want the SHL to recieve better seeds, come in with more than a little over .500 record. The weakest team in the sectional can go and play "tough" teams and lose too. Win a few more of those "tough" ones, or schedule teams from the sectional, that would likely help.

I would like to know when the SHL has had the majority voting power in the Southeast District? Can you be more specific? I didnt think so. As far as these teams coming in with above .500 records - in just isnt going to happen very often - they all play a lot of D3 and D2 teams during the year and typically they are able to compete with them. No, I dont expect the SOC coaches to throw out a red carpet but I guarantee one thing if they had to bet their own money they would pick different. Exactly why a rudimentary computer system should be implemented just like in Football.