State Tourny Overrated......?
I'm sure that participating in a State tourney is a special event, but failing to do so does not really diminish a teams accomplishments. It takes the perfect storm (players, coaches, opponents, seeding, matchups, regional, division, and just the right amount of luck) to win the state (who would have given Georgetown much chance last year). Chillicothe is special this year, but someone like Dover, who has been there before and has great coach, could end the dream, but in my eyes that won't take away from the Cavs accomplishments - they just would not of had the perfect storm.
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tropicalbreeze
- Freshman Team
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question
I think they are both important! To hang a banner in your school's gym that will be up there for the next century or so is pretty impressive. Weather it's a league banner or a State Championship, it's pretty impressive. Seeing my home town and school win a State BB title in the 90's was definitely one of the best Sports experiences in my life. (And I wasn't even a player, only an alum).
The problem with the Southeast is threads like this. People from all other corners of the state would laugh their behind off. Our expectations are too low if we are going to just be satisfied for a league title. League titles are nice but ultimate success is ultimately decided in the tournament.
Let's say Chillicothe loses to Marietta, for example. They still had a good season but it would be a disappointment to the players, coaches, fans and community.
Let's say Chillicothe loses to Marietta, for example. They still had a good season but it would be a disappointment to the players, coaches, fans and community.
Take it a step further, would you rather have years of District success without winning that one state championship, or years of little or average success and win that one state championship? To put it another way, would you rather be a regional powerhouse year after year and have that expected regional tournament success, or just have that success every so often?
mhs, So be McClain or be Georgetown?
And in Captain's case, Vinton County.
There is no reason why you can't be very proud of your school and what it accomplishes, while also striving to be the best you can possibly be.
Is just getting to the district tournament successful? We cut down sectional nets down here and in most other regions if the state winning a sectional title is just another game. I'm just posing the question. Definitions of success are different.
Most schools in our area are going to have cycles of being very good, good or bad, depending on the commitment they have for the program.
And in Captain's case, Vinton County.
There is no reason why you can't be very proud of your school and what it accomplishes, while also striving to be the best you can possibly be.
Is just getting to the district tournament successful? We cut down sectional nets down here and in most other regions if the state winning a sectional title is just another game. I'm just posing the question. Definitions of success are different.
Most schools in our area are going to have cycles of being very good, good or bad, depending on the commitment they have for the program.
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trojandave
- SEOP
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- Location: Portsmouth HS--15 State Appearances in Boys Basketball--4th All Time in Ohio
Portsmouth High School Trojans......4 Time State Champions......3 Time State Runnerup
1931, 1961, 1978, 1988.......and we wouldn't trade any of them for any league title!!
I have been blessed to have watched my Trojans win 2 of the 4 state titles. Believe me......they are SPECIAL......and unlike any other accomplishment along the way.
Being runnerup is a nice accomplishment, but you still feel somewhat disappointed because you came so close to winning it all!!
Our trophy case is set up where the state championship trophies are displayed by themselves.......no other trophies displayed come close to those......and the pictures on the wall in the lobby.....for those who have seen them.......make a PHS alum very proud.
And the way Portsmouth has been going.......6 straight losing years.....makes those state titles even more SPECIAL!!
For all schools involved in tourney play, whatever your goals were at the start of the season, if you accomplished all or most of them, then you probably have had a successful season. For those schools who truly feel they are good enough to go to the state......Chillicothe for example......advancing to the regional again and losing would still be a very nice accomplishment, but it would probably be disappointing because this year the talent they have on that team won't be the case in most years. They have a special group of basketball players this year. Good enough to WIN the state title.
1931, 1961, 1978, 1988.......and we wouldn't trade any of them for any league title!!
I have been blessed to have watched my Trojans win 2 of the 4 state titles. Believe me......they are SPECIAL......and unlike any other accomplishment along the way.
Being runnerup is a nice accomplishment, but you still feel somewhat disappointed because you came so close to winning it all!!
Our trophy case is set up where the state championship trophies are displayed by themselves.......no other trophies displayed come close to those......and the pictures on the wall in the lobby.....for those who have seen them.......make a PHS alum very proud.
And the way Portsmouth has been going.......6 straight losing years.....makes those state titles even more SPECIAL!!
For all schools involved in tourney play, whatever your goals were at the start of the season, if you accomplished all or most of them, then you probably have had a successful season. For those schools who truly feel they are good enough to go to the state......Chillicothe for example......advancing to the regional again and losing would still be a very nice accomplishment, but it would probably be disappointing because this year the talent they have on that team won't be the case in most years. They have a special group of basketball players this year. Good enough to WIN the state title.
bman618 wrote:mhs, So be McClain or be Georgetown?
And in Captain's case, Vinton County.
There is no reason why you can't be very proud of your school and what it accomplishes, while also striving to be the best you can possibly be.
Is just getting to the district tournament successful? We cut down sectional nets down here and in most other regions if the state winning a sectional title is just another game. I'm just posing the question. Definitions of success are different.
Most schools in our area are going to have cycles of being very good, good or bad, depending on the commitment they have for the program.
Actually, be McClain, or LE, or a few other programs that I have the utmost respect for that have never been to the State tourney. Trojandave mentions Portsmouth - to me Portsmouth, even with some down seasons, is still the traditional top program in the SE until some compiles as impressive portfolio. My post wasn't meant to pick a side on the argument, because I can see both sides. At McClain, we have not made it to the State, but everyone knows that Athens is McClain's home away from home every Spring and we have had some success in the Regionals. This time of year, every year, is an exciting time for this small community. For some other programs in the area (Georgetown comes to mind for me because they are my area, South Webster may be another example) they don't get to experience the same excitement every Feb/March, but when that one magical season comes along, they do make the most of it. I just was posing a question, one that I am not sure I have an answer for. The past 25 or 26 years of basketball at McClain have been a lot of fun and I am not sure I would want to give all that up for just one State Championship. Just my opinion.
Also, not to be argumentative, but SE schools are mostly home grown talent and don't have the ablity to recruit like big city schools or private schools so it is comparing apples and oranges when comparing state tournament appearances by SE schools with some other regions. Also, it is really only D2 schools that have been missing out on the appearances and there are many reasons for that beyond talent level (recruiting/easier regions, just plain bad luck, etc) - but that is for an entirely different thread.
mhs, lack of representation too in recent years - one D2 to regional since what 2001 until this year. One chance out of 16 isn't great, I don't care which district you're from.
I'm just throwing out the question, but I just wanted to make sure we aren't using our own schools as a crutch to try and make them appear better. I enjoy watching all of the area schools from Pickaway County and the other MSL schools. I went to Logan Elm and like to watch them play.
I would call a program like McClain very good for their consistent success. I have a lot of respect as to how many district titles and league titles they've won. This season is another example of that for what they've done without Dante. I expected them to be good but not 17-3. Programs like Logan Elm, Vinton County and maybe soon Chillicothe I would call good. You need to have success over several seasons to fall into the good category - league, tournament, etc. Progams like Gallipolis and Warren can fall into this also. All or most of these programs consistently make it to the Convo from D2.
I would not call any of them great. To me that is reserved for at least having a Final Four on the resume, but I do think we could see the Southeast break that string this year.
Overall this is a very interesting subject. I enjoy watching our basketball and I'm happy we have a great place to show it off in at the Convo. Sure beats the dump up at the Fairgrounds. There are a lot of reasons for different success and transfers are one of them. I know there are some sore fans from my area that look at Canal Winchester, who has several transfers. That's a part of the game, for better or worse.
I'm just throwing out the question, but I just wanted to make sure we aren't using our own schools as a crutch to try and make them appear better. I enjoy watching all of the area schools from Pickaway County and the other MSL schools. I went to Logan Elm and like to watch them play.
I would call a program like McClain very good for their consistent success. I have a lot of respect as to how many district titles and league titles they've won. This season is another example of that for what they've done without Dante. I expected them to be good but not 17-3. Programs like Logan Elm, Vinton County and maybe soon Chillicothe I would call good. You need to have success over several seasons to fall into the good category - league, tournament, etc. Progams like Gallipolis and Warren can fall into this also. All or most of these programs consistently make it to the Convo from D2.
I would not call any of them great. To me that is reserved for at least having a Final Four on the resume, but I do think we could see the Southeast break that string this year.
Overall this is a very interesting subject. I enjoy watching our basketball and I'm happy we have a great place to show it off in at the Convo. Sure beats the dump up at the Fairgrounds. There are a lot of reasons for different success and transfers are one of them. I know there are some sore fans from my area that look at Canal Winchester, who has several transfers. That's a part of the game, for better or worse.
I agree with MHS82 in that winning the state tournament is what every kid dreams about who loves sports. However, that being said, that doesn't mean, that everything else means nothing. Winning your league and any and all other accomplishments are important and make all the endless hours of hard work worth it. Very few will ever make it to that most elite award and we don't ever want them to stop working toward that goal but let's don't take away from all the victories along the way!
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dr awkward
- Waterboy
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- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:14 pm
I've never gone into a gym and seen a league banner that was bigger than a state championship banner. That should answer the question right there. The thrill in the journey and how a community comes together during a tourney run is unbelievable. There is no comparision, you even root for your biggest rival when there is a run to be made. I support all teams in the (740) once it becomes regional time.
I've seen final 4 appearance banners way bigger than league title banners. My final argument would be ask any take Portsmouth for example, the fraternity of state champions is much smaller than their fraternity of league champions. Which one would you want to be in?
I've seen final 4 appearance banners way bigger than league title banners. My final argument would be ask any take Portsmouth for example, the fraternity of state champions is much smaller than their fraternity of league champions. Which one would you want to be in?
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danicalifornia
- SEOPS HOF
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- Location: Chillicothe
I wish the Chillicothe Gazette let you look at articles from over a week ago, because I would post comments from Chillicothe's players and coach after the Zanesville loss.
It was no big deal to them, they have the state tournament to get ready for. They didn't care about not winning the league, all they care about is getting to Columbus in March.
It was no big deal to them, they have the state tournament to get ready for. They didn't care about not winning the league, all they care about is getting to Columbus in March.
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Burg_Grad_77
- SEOPS HO
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So what happened to Mr Rocket????
He claims to have won a state title in both baseball and basketball during his 4 years of high school but when called out on the fact that no "little school in southern Ohio" has ever achieved that accomplishment he disappears from the face of the Earth. What a joke.
League titles are great and are usually a schools first priority when the season begins, but every school in the state strives to win that very elusive state title every year. From the first practice to the last tourney game, that is the goal of every school in the state and if they tell you any different they are just fooling themselves.
He claims to have won a state title in both baseball and basketball during his 4 years of high school but when called out on the fact that no "little school in southern Ohio" has ever achieved that accomplishment he disappears from the face of the Earth. What a joke.
League titles are great and are usually a schools first priority when the season begins, but every school in the state strives to win that very elusive state title every year. From the first practice to the last tourney game, that is the goal of every school in the state and if they tell you any different they are just fooling themselves.
"Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends"
lol are you serious?
lets see....
either I'm on the best team of the 8-9 other schools around me
or I'm on the best team in the entire state in my division of 200 plus (or around there) teams
give me some of what you are smokin bro. Sounds like someone hasnt sniffed state in a long long time. go to the state tourney weekend and watch the games thurs-sat and then come back and tell me what you think it means and which is better.
dumbest post i've ever read.
lets see....
either I'm on the best team of the 8-9 other schools around me
or I'm on the best team in the entire state in my division of 200 plus (or around there) teams
give me some of what you are smokin bro. Sounds like someone hasnt sniffed state in a long long time. go to the state tourney weekend and watch the games thurs-sat and then come back and tell me what you think it means and which is better.
dumbest post i've ever read.
and thats just how it is...Dshanton3
In light of DShanton3's statement, let me throw this out there: Is it always the best teams that make it to the final four? And if not, then is the winner of the final four really the best team in the state, or just the one on a roll or one with an easier route?
I'll use the McClain as an example since that is what I know. McClain beat Upper Sandusky last year by 40 points. Upper made the final four while McClain got knocked out in the District by Chilli. Is Upper better than McClain since they made the final four?
Or how about if this happens: Chilli gets beat in Regionals, while Dunbar (a team that Chilli beat) advances to the final four, is Dunbar the better team just because they got to the final four?
Tourney's are probably the best method for determining a champion, but probably not absolute in determining who is the best team. IMO (and it is just my opinion) Chilli has to be one of the top couple of D2 teams in the State and even if they get knocked out prior to advancing there, my opinion will not change.
I'll use the McClain as an example since that is what I know. McClain beat Upper Sandusky last year by 40 points. Upper made the final four while McClain got knocked out in the District by Chilli. Is Upper better than McClain since they made the final four?
Or how about if this happens: Chilli gets beat in Regionals, while Dunbar (a team that Chilli beat) advances to the final four, is Dunbar the better team just because they got to the final four?
Tourney's are probably the best method for determining a champion, but probably not absolute in determining who is the best team. IMO (and it is just my opinion) Chilli has to be one of the top couple of D2 teams in the State and even if they get knocked out prior to advancing there, my opinion will not change.