N-York @ Federal Hocking

[JayKay]

I heard Coach E's comments on the radio after the loss to Trimble. He has a good view of what needs done at Fed Hock. He couldn't have been more positive about his team. And he did comment on having so few players with varsity experience. I think he equated it to teaching advanced college math to those lacking basic math skills. This takes time and patience. It's a fact that all but 2 or 3 of his players are lacking in varsity experience. May not be a popular view for those that supported Vales/Chadwell, but it remains an indisputable fact. You have to be aware of the importance of building your program. Personally, I don't think that happened enough last year. Just my humble opinion. This Coach is the third coach in 3 years. That is never easy. Regardless of the reason, he remains 3rd of 3. He's going to need time and support to rebuild this program. As for the team - put Tuesday night behind you and move forward. Learn from the mistakes and keep improving. Fans are supportive of you and your coaches!

[Foxworthy]

93 Bulldog and Jay Kaye, great posts, thank you. Support, support, support. I'm not trying to knock anyone on here or anyone in the program. This is great conversation!

Since I'm old and gray I'm obviously not a kid although I'm one at heart.

Red Baron, I'm not talking about open gyms, I'm referring to OHSAA open contact time which I believe is 60 days in June/July that teams can play with coaching instruction. And how do I know that nothing happened this summer??? Well maybe I'm somebody's family member that has a direct line into the program. They weren't asked or worked with as a team during contact time or if they were it wasn't all of the players. Open gym is great but can promote street ball which won't get it done on the HS level unless you live in the innner-city leagues. When you got programs going to college/university sponsored camps at OU, University of Cincinnati and the host of other places TVC teams go to develope players, you might have some difficulty keeping up with only an open gym. That's my point, the expectations by the community are way to high for these fine young men and their 3 fine coaches!! They aren't magicians that can pull a game out of their back pocket.

Now let's be Lancer fans and put the past behind, launch a new ship and support all our coaches and kids!!! That's where I'm headed!! There is no use dwelling on past coaches, they aren't in the program anymore because they obviously resigned and decided not to coach anymore!!

Thanks Coach Ellcessor for coming to Fed Hock, you've go my support!!!! All our players are fine young men and I believe in each and everyone one of them!!!!

[Orestes]

Last year's FH basketball team (2007-08) returned 19 starts from the 2006-07 season that were shared between Kory Williams and Cory McCune. They were the only returnees with legitimate minutes. Jared Gandee and Cory Vales rarely saw more than mop up time in the 06-07 season. Grant Smith and Tyler Thompson played full-time JV.

This year's team returns starts from every game last year from either Smith (all except during injury), Thompson, and Stanley. Clark, Rex, and Torrence all received spotty mop up minutes, but certainly no more or no less than what Gandee and Vales received in 06-07.

The lack of experience claim just does not stand up against an objective measure. It appears to be an attempt to blame Coach Vales, while softening the blow by adding "no offense" or "He did a good job but...."

This season's team either has talent issues, attitude issues, chemistry issues, or coaching issues. All signs point toward Coach E being a good coach, so I would rest the problem on one or a combination of the other three factors. Coach Vales is the first victim of the blaming game. Coach E will certainly be next, as "talent" is most certainly not the issue for anyone's kid.

I also beg to differ in regards to Coach Vales leaving the program hanging. I was under the impression that he planned to return but was run off either directly or indirectly by "the powers that be" at Federal Hocking.

Without seeing the team this year and basing my opinion from viewing last year's teams and also performances in other sports, here is how I would size up this year's roster.

One or two truly good players (Varsity-ready, All-TVC), but if each has a weakness it comes on the defensive end....

A project in the paint.. Let's face it. FH was just begging for minutes from someone else last year, especially inside ....... no one got them...

A hustler on D who can handle the ball but not much for shooting or scoring for that matter....

A spot-up, "if you leave him wide open", shooter who lacks the athletic ability to get to the rim or defend a quick opponent man-to-man....

Another hustler on D who lacks the ability to score or even threaten to score....

A decently talented kid who has consistently lacked hustle and toughness over the years....



I see a lot of defensive problems with this team just by looking at personnel. The only possible good defenders are specialists. Basketball is not meant for a handful of specialists. I think this team will get better if the attitudes stay on track. Many of those guys have the ability to play D if they focus on it and take pride in it.

[JayKay]

During last year's season, a group of sophomores (07-08) sat the varsity bench and were not allowed to play JV (or only allowed 1 or 2 quarters). Then come the varsity game they sit and never make it in, except for maybe mop up minutes as you put it. Last year's JV team was sacrificed. Their record was not good and it was thru no fault of Amos Cottrill. The best sophomore players (and heck, even one freshman) were not allowed 4 JV quarters because they were being saved for varsity. I have no problem dressing a boy for varsity, but not at the expense of his playing time. If he's good enough to dress, he's should be good enough to see quality minutes. If not, let him play JV and gain the experience he needs to improve. I know for a fact that more than once a couple of sophomores were not allowed any JV time during specific games, only to sit varsity later that evening with no play time. So how does it help your best sophomores to sit out two games in one evening? It should not be accepted that a player lose floor time as a sophomore (or worse as a freshman) because he's being saved for varsity but not utilized. A few of this year's varsity players are those young men who sat in 07-08. How can that not affect the 08-09 season?

[93Bulldog]

Sometimes you have the 'horses' and sometimes you don't Orestes ... This is high school and a southeastern Ohio high school to boot ... NO TEAM, NO SCHOOL will remain dominate or even boast winning records every single year. Federal Hocking is not the biggest school in the world and the landscape doesn't produce athlete after athlete ... For what the school does draw as students/athletes I think they do one helluva a job producing winners on the football field (lately), the hardwood and definitely the baseball diamond. Its not like the Lancers are Columbus Desales or even a Logan lets say, heck, Fed Hock doesn't even have the numbers Athens has to work with in terms of boys in the school ... Your gonna suffer some down time wheather anyone from Stewart likes it or not, thats life - best thing you can do is keep improving, keep building your program, which is in a great place right now, and before you know it, you have the Hocking title resting comfortably in the trophy case.

perfect example of 'down time' is Trimble - they ruled the small school division in southeastern Ohio for the longest of time, they were good in the 1980's, had some great teams in the 90's and the Jenkins boys, plus Fouts, had really good runs in the early 2000's ... But then they dropped off the map for a few years and now they seem to be climbing back.

[Orestes]

Sometimes you have the 'horses' and sometimes you don't Orestes ... This is high school and a southeastern Ohio high school to boot ... NO TEAM, NO SCHOOL will remain dominate or even boast winning records every single year. Federal Hocking is not the biggest school in the world and the landscape doesn't produce athlete after athlete ... For what the school does draw as students/athletes I think they do one helluva a job producing winners on the football field (lately), the hardwood and definitely the baseball diamond. Its not like the Lancers are Columbus Desales or even a Logan lets say, heck, Fed Hock doesn't even have the numbers Athens has to work with in terms of boys in the school ... Your gonna suffer some down time wheather anyone from Stewart likes it or not, thats life - best thing you can do is keep improving, keep building your program, which is in a great place right now, and before you know it, you have the Hocking title resting comfortably in the trophy case.

perfect example of 'down time' is Trimble - they ruled the small school division in southeastern Ohio for the longest of time, they were good in the 1980's, had some great teams in the 90's and the Jenkins boys, plus Fouts, had really good runs in the early 2000's ... But then they dropped off the map for a few years and now they seem to be climbing back.

I agree with you about everything. I must not have made my point clearly. I feel that FH has some horses, but not nearly the horses they had in 2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07, and 2007-08.

I was just pointing out that the 2007-08 team didn't have any more varsity experience than this year's team.

I am assuming that defense, and everything that goes into it, is probably the problem for this team. In years past, I would watch high school basketball 4-5 nights a week. I would then finally see FH play and just be blown away by their on-the-ball man-to-man defense. It was fast, physical, intense, and any other adjective that goes along with defensive play. However, you need 5 quick and athletic guys on the floor to play it.

I'm sure this team will get better and I wish them the best of luck. I just think there was a bit of irrational exuberance before the season.

[93Bulldog]

Orestes ... Funny thing is man, coach Ellcessor probably agrees with ya ... Five or six times last night he yelled out to his team "TAKE A darn CHARGE!", especially after Bunting had taken it to the hoop repeatedly ... He was trying to get the team to pound it inside early to Stanley, and they didn't ... He just hasen't been able to get through to this group yet, he told me before the game he brought in some of the older guys from last years team and before to try and 'toughen' em up ... I guess it didn't pay off against N-Y but maybe it will here soon.

Im watching the game now on Nelsonville-T.V. cable, the fourth quarter is coming up, ive been wanting to watch it so I could get another look at the 'technical' foul ... You Fed Hockers need to keep in mind that you could have won that game last night ... 58-58 with 1:51 to play ... a six point possession given to the Bucks decided the game, not necessarly the players ... Give credit to Barrick, Dickerson and Mitchel for hitting the free throws and jumper to put NY up six, but they shouyld have never had that many opportunities ... 2 free throws for the foul, and that's it.

[The Gloaming]

I agree with you about everything. I must not have made my point clearly. I feel that FH has some horses, but not nearly the horses they had in 2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07, and 2007-08.

Orestes...That 2002-2003 Fed Hock team was probably the best ever at Fed Hock:)
Still jamming Tool?

I think this group will be fine come mid season. Experience is overrated, they just need to get hungry on the defensive end and they'll win some ball games.

[Orestes]

That team certainly gets my vote, and yes, of course I still break it out whenever I have a free moment.


Yep. Defense is everything. Offense will come and go but D is the constant.

Also, let me make it clear that I am not in any way criticizing the coach. I have heard nothing but good things about him. Defense is a mentality that is inside of each player. The coach can only preach it and scream it. Like The Gloaming said, they'll pick it up on that end of the floor and when they do, they'll compete with anyone in the TVC.

93, I think we're pretty much on the same page.

[Foxworthy]

93 Bulldog.........so on target when you talk about ups and downs, natural swings of programs. HS sports is not always about winning. That's the goal, don't get me wrong. Lot's of other good things can be going on in programs to prepare young men and women for life though and that should never be overlooked.

Programs that are consistent in teaching fundamentals and align their philosophy from Biddy leagues clear through their varsity program have an advantage I believe in having more wins than losses. It's not only physical but a mind-set that the kids adopt. Simply, chemistry! For example, the "all-star" concept. If it's discouraged in the biddy league ranks and they know this is a team program, that can help, not eliminate, over-inflated ego's on the top side. Coaching strategies must also align with the type of players that come through - they're not all 6' 3" every year. God Bless all the people that have coached HS sports because you can't "pick em" like the college ranks, you gotta play the hand you're dealt! ( unless you're one of those recruiting HS)

This new chapter at Fed-Hock will be a good one and I think you'll see more of a program mind-set than in past coaching administrations. Keep in mind when you are working with kids that live in 6 townships, almost half of the physical land mass of Athens County, it's a balancing act to keep them coming together but with good leadership and school spirit it can be done.

Past teams???? 1990-1991 smokes them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IMO I was there and that was an awesome experience!!!

[Spartan]

I knew NY would bounce back. Alex jumped on them early, and never looked back, but FH is not Alex this year.

[93Bulldog]

FOX .... Pretty tough words their about the early 90's team ...

Im quite familiar with that team, I actually got a giggle out of looking over some of those pictures/awards outside the F.H. gym before Tuesdays game ... Seen my old next door neighbor, Mickey Cozart, hanging their ... The guy graduated over 15 years ago and I swear he looks exactly the same now, short buzz hair cut and all ... lol

BTW ... With that 90-91 team, im 30lbs heavier than I was in high school and I bet I can still smoke Bobo!