Is basketball getting to physical?

[RedBaron]

I agree that the fans are the ones who think its too physical. I mean boxing out, tough picks, its all part of the game. Sure there are certain occasions where things get too rough but being an offical is a hard job to do.

But its ez for most ppl to officiate from the stands, thats all i ever heard is, thats a walk, thats a foul, are you blind. Take dudes advice above and try it your self!!

[alabama mike]

This is an excellent thread with very valid points being made on both sides of the issue. One problem that bothers me is the physical play that is allowed when teams start advancing in the tournament. IMO, the farther you advance, the rougher the play.

[newlex/sheridan]

Personally, I like physical play. I think it puts more emphasis on being a stronger athlete. Coaches are now forced to implement a strength and conditioning program if they want to compete. Basketball is a contact sport, no matter what anyone thinks. It is impossible to play the game without a little "banging."

[qualified101]

it is only a contact sport because officials over the years have let it become a full contact sport. the "only" time there should ever be contact without a foul is 1)a legal blockout 2)a legal screen. it shouldnt matter whether there are 10 minutes left in a game or ten seconds. a foul is a foul no matter what the clock says. imo offensive fouls are not called enough even when the offensive player initiates the contact and displaces the defensive player(moving or not).

there is one call that most refs are too lazy to keep up with and it is "the closely guarded rule". the next bball game you go to, when the ball is in the backcourt, if a defensive player is within 6 feet of the offensive player with the ball, that is considered being closely guarded, hence the ref should start the count. here is the problem, its 6 feet no matter what body part. so you've got a defensive player working their rear off trying to guard the offensive player and mr ref hasnt started counting until after about 3 seconds which means the defensive player now has to closely guard the offensive player for 8 seconds to get the call. if mr ref would have done their job right in the first place it should have only taken 5 seconds to make the call. basically what im saying is it penalizes the defense because of a lazy ref.

ok, my rant is over.

[Steely Dan]

Qualified - I agree wholeheartedly with every one of your points. May as well throw in "carrying the ball" too. No one will call it, even though it is happening nearly every trip down the floor. It makes it even tougher to play good defense when the ball handler is allowed to carry the entire game.....

[qualified101]

you read my mind steely dan but i felt i had gone on too long. i dont have my rule book with me but the definition of dribbling has something to do with the hand being on "top" of the ball. not the side where most have it and most definitely not under the ball. the offense definitely has the advantage when it comes to a possession.

my new favorite is when the ball is on the floor and player A1 has the ball, and a player of the opposite team (player B1) dives through or on top of A1 to grab at the ball and no foul is called. in football, i believe that would be a personal foul of 15 yards which is a major penalty in terms of yards but in basketball nowadays the refs dont call anything but jump ball or maybe timeout.

[Steely Dan]

And, once again, you are absolutely correct. In what sport do the rules "allow" you to go through a player to defend a play (OK, maybe hockey, but I don't know squat about fistfights on skates) or get possession of the ball, puck, etc?

I just don't get it. The concept seems kinda simple to me.

[eaglefan1]

If i was coaching i would be happy that my players are getting physical and grabbing. It shows me that they are willing to do whatever it takes to win. Basketball is getting physical, but what sport isn't physical? I played high school basketball not too long ago and i got held, pushed, grabbed, everything but i never complained about it...i knew it was part of the game....the other team wanted to win...if the refs dont see it, its not a foul...if the refs dont call it, its not a foul.

[eaglefan1]

Qualified - I agree wholeheartedly with every one of your points. May as well throw in "carrying the ball" too. No one will call it, even though it is happening nearly every trip down the floor. It makes it even tougher to play good defense when the ball handler is allowed to carry the entire game.....

Do you have any idea how long the game would last if they called every single foul, and every single carry and every single illegal screen? If you dont wanna play a physical sport then go play poker or chess or scrabble. Just deal with it and play the game, be physical right back to them.

[qualified101]

Qualified - I agree wholeheartedly with every one of your points. May as well throw in "carrying the ball" too. No one will call it, even though it is happening nearly every trip down the floor. It makes it even tougher to play good defense when the ball handler is allowed to carry the entire game.....

Do you have any idea how long the game would last if they called every single foul, and every single carry and every single illegal screen? If you dont wanna play a physical sport then go play poker or chess or scrabble. Just deal with it and play the game, be physical right back to them.

actually, once i call it a couple of times in the first quarter, everybody usually adapts. its the mentality of players like you that have gotten us where we are today. it takes a palming violation at each end of the floor and then both teams adapt. it usually only takes a couple of hand check calls in the first quarter and that stops. its amazing what happens when a game is officiated correctly by all three officials. the needless fouling stops. the trash talking stops. the pushing/shoving under the basket stops and a clean game emerges where its actually enjoyable to watch. most players would agree that as long as its consistant at both ends, it makes for a more competitive/cleaner game.

[qualified101]

Qualified - I agree wholeheartedly with every one of your points. May as well throw in "carrying the ball" too. No one will call it, even though it is happening nearly every trip down the floor. It makes it even tougher to play good defense when the ball handler is allowed to carry the entire game.....

Do you have any idea how long the game would last if they called every single foul, and every single carry and every single illegal screen? If you dont wanna play a physical sport then go play poker or chess or scrabble. Just deal with it and play the game, be physical right back to them.

yes i do. a palming violation is just taking the ball out of bounds so that not gonna really change anything. an illegal screen is an offensive foul so thats an out of bounds violation. maybe an extra 10 to 15 minutes. guess what though, as an official, we dont start the game by saying "hope this is a quick one" or something of that nature. we are there to enforce the rules set by the ohsaa. thats it. no more, no less. i looked it up, there is nothing in the rulebook that puts a time limit on a game so i really dont see how long the game would last really matters.

[newlex/sheridan]

Bloom-Carroll is one of the most successful D3 basketball programs in the state over the past 30 seasons. Their coach has had two losing seasons in 32 years (both times winning only 7 games). They play full court in your face man to man D. He and his assistant teach a physical and intense style that emphasizes hands on (commonly known as the hand-check) and teach their kids to show their hands every few seconds which "influences" the officials not to call a foul. Being physical is part of the game, I teach my kids to play this way on both ends of the floor. Often times an opposing player is not very "mentally tough" and this constant banging frustrates them which takes the player out of the game and gives us a better chance at winning. I don't mind refs calling the game either way, phyical or not, as long as they are consistant at both ends of the floor. Our players are taught to adjust to the officiating and do anything that they will allow you to do that gives our team an advantage.

[eaglefan1]

so youre saying there should be no physical play, no touching, during the course of the game? These kids arent playing Badminton, physical play is good for the game.

[qualified101]

so youre saying there should be no physical play, no touching, during the course of the game? These kids arent playing Badminton, physical play is good for the game.

let me ask this with an open mind. how is physical play good for the game of basketball? im not talking about touch fouls. convince me that playing street ball is good for the game. ill be waiting.