Peebles vs. Africentric Regional Semi 3/11

[59Indian]

OHSAA supposedly is calling for a vote on "competitive balance" in May again. Suggest they should assign 1 of the 4 divisions for private schools & put all the privates in that one regardless of size. They could recruit to their heart's content but could only win that divisions trophy . The other 3 div could be split for the public schools according to size. Regular season games could be scheduled as they are now. State tourney could still be the 4 divisions. Private schools would whine about it being unfair but would give them a taste of their own medicine.

They would leave the OHSAA instead of going to that separate division and the OHSAA would lose a lot of money from that, so we won't ever see them have their own division.

And Africentric would still be in Peebles division since they are a public school.

I know it wouldn't happen but it makes as much sense as any of the proposals so far. As far as money loss if privates left, you are right although it probably wouldn't affect state tourney revenue as much as you might think. Most of the private schools themselves have very poor fan followings. Having attended 30+ tourneys this is a fact that is evident every year. Other people attend but very few actual fans of the schools.

[Lovetheroundball]

If you look at the 32 teams in the regionals in D3 and D4 I would be interested to know what % are private schools. Just from looking at the school names and not investigating further I would say well over 50%. And you don't think these private schools recruit. Must just be coincidence that the private schools are more competitive at sports.

[sinjinian]

The competitive balance proposal is to be voted on in May and will add enrollment to a school who has players on the roster who live outside their district or did not come from the schools in their feeder system. If this had been in effect this year, perhaps Peebles and Fairfield would have had different opponents in the regional semi's. I believe it will count someone from outside the district as enrollment of 5 rather than 1.

[chiefs]

If you look at the 32 teams in the regionals in D3 and D4 I would be interested to know what % are private schools. Just from looking at the school names and not investigating further I would say well over 50%. And you don't think these private schools recruit. Must just be coincidence that the private schools are more competitive at sports.

I have a nephew who went to a Catholic grade school in Columbus, well all of those schools play each other from fourth grade on to eighth grade, then they go on to the CCL schools. He played the senior class at Bishop Watterson in basketball all through middle school and junior high. I think of their best six, four of them came from a single feeder Catholic grade school in the neighborhood of Clintonville, this school is called Immaculate Conception. Well this class at IC was exceptional at the other two went to the Catholic schools in Upper Arlington. I knew some of my nephew's coaches, these guys were parents of his classmates... a lot of these parents/coaches were actually first responders that graduated from places such as Watterson, Ready, and DeSales. These parents volunteered and always preached the fundamentals and stressed 110% effort, and always stressed that to beat a DeSales or Watterson school was a big deal. Now imagine this level of expectations and pro activity in all twenty or so of the Catholic schools in Columbus. Competition has always been high and always will be high when parents have to sacrifice to send their kids through private education, and this has been the case regarding the Columbus catholic schools for a while. This is also partly why these are prestigious and highly competitive academic schools.

[chiefs]

Also, that private school following comment is general BS.

[Lovetheroundball]

, four of them came from a single feeder Catholic grade school in the neighborhood of Clintonville, this school is called Immaculate Conception. Well this class at IC was exceptional at the other two went to the Catholic schools in Upper Arlington. These parents volunteered and always preached the fundamentals and stressed 110% effort, Competition has always been high and always will be high when parents have to sacrifice to send their kids through private education, and this has been the case regarding the Columbus catholic schools for a while. This is also partly why these are prestigious and highly competitive academic schools.[/quote

So from what FC has said these kids would not have been in the same public school district. And since public school athletes don't work as hard as private school athletes I guess that would explain why there are so many private schools always competing for the state titles.

[chiefs]

, four of them came from a single feeder Catholic grade school in the neighborhood of Clintonville, this school is called Immaculate Conception. Well this class at IC was exceptional at the other two went to the Catholic schools in Upper Arlington. These parents volunteered and always preached the fundamentals and stressed 110% effort, Competition has always been high and always will be high when parents have to sacrifice to send their kids through private education, and this has been the case regarding the Columbus catholic schools for a while. This is also partly why these are prestigious and highly competitive academic schools.[/quote

So from what FC has said these kids would not have been in the same public school district. And since public school athletes don't work as hard as private school athletes I guess that would explain why there are so many private schools always competing for the state titles.

One of their classmates ended up being the 4-year starting QB at Whetstone HS and will be playing college football at Mercyhurst next year.

I never made an implication of "harder working". Their parents work as hard as you and me, and their kids work just as hard as your kids do. Difference is when they lose, they don't sit by themselves and complain when beat by a superior opponent.

[chiefs]

Also, I never said anything about seperate school districts.

[PHStide]

What I still don't understand is why did Peebles play Africentric instead of Fairfield?

Wouldn't it make more since to have the 2 best SE teams play first. Your still going to get the same outcome, Private school winning the Region. But at least 1 small public school could make the elite 8 and brag that they are the best public school in the area.

That would at least be something until the "rules/fools committee" can figure something out.

I for one would have loved to see Peebles and Fairfield go at it. I think it would have been a great game and the fan base would have been outstanding.

[trojandave]

22 wins and a district title is a great season for the Indians.........I am a Portsmouth alumnus, and my Trojans lost to Cincinnati Summit Country Day in the 2012 D3 State Championship game 53-37 not because Country Day was private, but because they played better than we did. We were only down 5 points when the Knights hit a 3 pointer at the buzzer to end the 3rd quarter to go up 36-28. That was a winnable game for Portsmouth. Still, I was very proud of the Trojans for making it to the final game.

Always remember that when you play in the Sweet 16, there are about 184 schools in D4 that have already been eliminated........a number of which are private schools.

[PHStide]

Trojan,

I'm not bitter, although I do believe the privates have an advantage especially at the D IV level.

My question is why not an Athens bracket championship vs the Columbus champion.

I realize you can't avoid the hand selected privates forever, but the SE should have crowed a winner first

[sinjinian]

The last couple years the two teams that came out of the Southeast have played each other in the first game of the regionals, it was changed this year.

[coachcook]

why should he central knock off each other in the semis. I would think that Newark Catholic an Fairfield Christian maybe a few more are better than SE. You can advance from SE by only beating teams with losing record. The Central District schools are a step up from SE by quite a bit.

Harvest Prep only has 59 boys in the whole HS so they are about 1/2 the size of the SE schools that advanced. Regionals/State get equal representation not the best 16/8/4/2 teams in the state.

[eagles73Taylor]

^^^^^^^^^ What a load of crap! harvest prep has multiple ohsaa violations in the last several years, had to forfeit won games because of them. Not only that, they like every other private/parochial (africentric fits here as well) blocks a large portion of the population from ever walking their hallways due to strict entry standards, codes of conduct standards and most of all THEIR TUITION! If anything, these private/parochials are playing down in competition compared to their public counterparts. If you suddenly made any public school district in southeast ohio private, you would lose 30-50% of the student population who 1. couldnt afford it, 2. dont care enough to try and get the grades to stay or 3. just simply dont care enough about going to school to attend. See, public school students are FORCED by law to attend the public school where they live, so no matter what that student counts towards enrollment! How many kids like that floating around these private schools?

[toast]

^^^^^^^

Excellent post! Comparing private schools vs public schools is comparing apples to oranges. Two very different animals that play by very different rules! Private schools pick and choose who comes through their front doors. They can turn students away for nearly any reason. Public schools accept ALL students. Strict entry standards alone ensures they don't have to deal with many of the more challenging students and situations. And charging tuition also ensures an elite statues. But of course they can waive the tuition charge if you happen to be a good athlete. Call it like it is and stop acting like private schools have better coaches or athletes that work harder than public school athletes. They have inherent advantages that can be seen by anyone who is honest and open-minded.

[chiefs]

Public schools also compete with advantage compared to their private counter-parts, although they are generally structural and financial advantages. One is very obvious; taxpayer support. Especially in D4, the public schools generally receive more revenue through tax dollars as opposed to private school tuition, ergo in theory there is more money to budget towards busing, facilities maintenance, coaching salary, among other things. Public schools also can benefit from open enrollment, AND players do not have to actually attend the public school to play for them, they can attend the career center and play for their public school.

Why is it only certain schools complain about when they lose to private schools? I read 4th n Goal's posts on the thread where they lost to Ready, amazingly there was no hee-hawing about "recruiting" and all of this nonsense. 4th n Goal, like many of the Burg fans on this board, act graceful when their boys lose and instead of expostulating this "woe is us" attitude, they congratulate their boys, point out how their boys could've played better etc. Maybe it doesn't come as a surprise the Burg has some of SE Ohio's best athletic and academic programs traditionally and currently. Instead of complaining, which is too easy, they develop to work harder so they win that last game. The same thing is seen in Mercer County.

While there may be some intrinsic divide between public and private that may or may not be fixable, the biggest thing that can be done is not being done: working harder and cut the excuses. Places such as Wheelersburg and Marion Local can play ball, so why can't the rest of you?

[eagles73Taylor]

Public schools also compete with advantage compared to their private counter-parts, although they are generally structural and financial advantages. One is very obvious; taxpayer support. Especially in D4, the public schools generally receive more revenue through tax dollars as opposed to private school tuition, ergo in theory there is more money to budget towards busing, facilities maintenance, coaching salary, among other things.

How many special education teachers does your school have? How many specialized buses to transport handicapped students to your private school? How many accommodations and modifications such as specialized electronics does your private school district need to purchase? Public schools receive more money because they deal with a greater amount of students who dont fit the normal category. I dont know about Lancaster public, but here in Pike county every school here has cut their budgets by millions, so I dont get where you think all public schools are highly funded!

You mention why not be like wheelersburg, and those schools from the MAC, well its pretty simple, socioeconomics! My football coach brought back an article from a local newspaper in the Stark county area that had interviewed Marion Locals coach about his upcoming game with Trimble. He basically said that his kids are living in an area with the lowest unemployment rate in the state, almost all of his kids come from good stable 2 family homes that dont have to deal with issues like poverty. Wheelersburg fits this mold. They are a small geographic boundary district, their population is made up of a large portion of professional families with 2 family homes. Inner city and poor rural public schools face this issue every day.

No where in any of my posts will you see me type recruiting, why, because it happens everywhere at every kind of school Privates have to recruit, that is how they keep their doors open.

My point is privates disproportionately have an advantage because of the reasons I listed above. Get out of your gilded homes and come see how some parts o this state live!

[chiefs]

Public schools also compete with advantage compared to their private counter-parts, although they are generally structural and financial advantages. One is very obvious; taxpayer support. Especially in D4, the public schools generally receive more revenue through tax dollars as opposed to private school tuition, ergo in theory there is more money to budget towards busing, facilities maintenance, coaching salary, among other things.

How many special education teachers does your school have? How many specialized buses to transport handicapped students to your private school?

Actually the school I align with does have a special education teacher, and our school now is a part of a program that gives subsidized (perhaps free?) tuition to students with extreme learning disabilities / autism / dyslexia / Asperger's, and we do in fact have physically handicapped students. Contrary to what you may think, the private status does not enable an inherent athletic advantage for most of our programs (very small football team for instance).

[athens78]

Will they need crowd control for the 107 fans that will be there tonight? lol at least they get to play in the best site in Ohio....the Convo.

[newlex/sheridan]

There is no real solution to the private v. public debate. Some private schools (Bellaire St. Johns, Ironton St. Joe for example) aren't athletic recruiting powerhouses and don't intend to be. I'm sure there are numerous private schools that are not. There are also some that are given an unfair advantage. Villa-Angela St. Joe in Cleveland for example, they have a team that last year competed in division 4 and bumped to division 3 by one student (121) that would have won the division one title. People argue, they have the same number of boys as (insert random public school here) to choose from. The difference is, they can control enrollment and allow in whomever they want. A team like St. Joe with guys being recruited by Ohio State, Duke and multiple other division one programs have a distinct advantage. Basically, a handful ruin it for everyone. We can name rogue programs and others who do it within the confines of what they are allowed to do.
There are also "public" programs that do the same. Columbus city school district allows a student to pick any high school they want to enroll in if they choose as freshman. It's no coincidence that the athletes wind up at particular schools. No real solution to the problem. It is what it is.