SoutheasternOhioPreps.com

wattsup wrote:Does it seem fair to anyone in Southern Ohio that our local teams always seem to run up against teams from Cleveland, Columbus, Akron, Toledo, Cincinnati that are religious based private schools. They are able to recruit players from a population base from 500,000 to 1,000,000 people. Look at the Regina girls team that beat Oak Hill last weekend. They draw from the entire city of Cleveland and win 6 of the the last 9 or 10 state championships. Is it just me or do the rules need changed to even up the playing field for public schools.

Regina has had over 65 D1 Recruits over the last 15 years, that says alot in my opinion.

This is a particular pet peeve of mine.

The fact that private, sometimes parochial, schools are allowed in a public school tournament is a travesty. The state tourney is littered with the corpses of small town teams that were hammered by "small" schools that recruit from high populated areas.

Every year, nearly 200 teams in each division compete for the state crown. On a level playing field, a girls program like south euclid regina should never be able to dominate like they have this decade.

But congratulations Red Streaks...you put up a great fight and deserve all the credit in the world.

It's painful to see an entire town gets behind a team, only so that team can be mowed down by a private school that draws from a population pool 10 times the size of an actual home-grown school.

If private school teams are to participate in the OHSAA tourney, they should either not be allowed to offer athletic scholarships, or be forced to play in a division that reflects the populations they draw from, not the size of their enrollment. Either that, or the private schools can use their own private money for their own private tournaments.

This is a quote from the OHSAA's mission statement, "The Ohio High School Athletic Association's mission is to regulate and administer interscholastic athletic competition in a fair and equitable manner."

"Fair and equitable." Give me a break.

From SEP 98

Traveling Violations
Transferring and recruiting are poisoning high school sports

Has a small section about Pat Diulis and Regina.


http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

gahs4ever wrote:Pat Diulus has not been at Regina fifteen years. Prior to that he was at perennial power Garfield Heights Trinity. When he left there, he took his entire starting lineup with him to Regina.

Pat Diulus has been there 11 years and the current Staff has been there 15 years. How many schools have put out over 65 D1 Recruits in 15 years, that's a crazy amount.

No Excuses!! we just have to get better

gahs4ever wrote:Question: How did BJ Mullens get to Canal Winchester and where did he come from?

On another note, has it ever occurred to anyone that the DIII and IV basketball schools in the metro areas are benefitting from more talent being in a much more compressed area? There are more student athletes within a 20-30 min drive of each other in Columbus than there are in the entire SE Oio quadrant. Better competition breeds better athletes.

You would have a real hissy fit if you lived in states where there is only one state champion regradless of enrollment.

Take the private schools out and your state champion will be a joke because everyone will know who the REAL state champion is.

I don't believe these Catholic schools in big cities are the "real" champions in DIII and DIV. I think they're D1 and D2 teams that take advantage of a poorly structured system and treat student athletes like free agents.

I enjoyed the SI article posted, and for the record I also don't like open enrollment. I think in high school athletics, your players are representing your school and community, your neighborhood, your town, whatever. If a kid's parents want him of her to attend another school to have better prospects for college sports, they should move there. I'm sure we all know people that have done this.

I think I accidently deleted your quote about Berlin hiland (sp.?), but you're right to give those teams all the accolades in the world (there's a great SI article about hiland from '02 btw). The fact those programs and those kids have been able to win in a system that is so strongly against teams like them is a credit to them.

If I lived in a state where there was one champion regardless of enrollment, we wouldn't be posting on here, would we? Fact is, I live in Ohio, where we do have different divisions for our schools in an attempt to level the playing field for small communities, and these DI schools in DIII clothing detract from that.

Oh, and I'm not intimately familiar with the programs and recruiting practices of local catholic schools like St. Joe's, etc., but I'm willing to guess two things: 1) Their potential pool of players is much smaller than the city schools that abuse the system, and 2) The area catholic schools' athletic programs Unger (massive congrats on being first team btw), seaman, justice, quinlan, and smith, lamb, brabson all on the same team, thumping small town teams like they're pee wee fodder.

I agree wholeheartedly with the last post. There definitely was no school or community support for Cleveland Central Catholic today as I spotted maybe 150 students, fans and parents in the stands today from where I was sitting at lower midcourt . In the Cleveland Lutheran East game this morning I bet they didn't have 50 students and parents in their cheering section when they played Kalida. I bet some of the players on the two teams mentioned above don't even know the name of the street their schools sit on.

gahs4ever wrote:Anyone know what school has won the most state championships in Ohio high school history?

I believe the answer is Upper Arlington

That is because UA has a full compliment of varsity sports, 33 varsity sports I believe, one of only a hand full in the entire state. Thus doubling maybe tripling their chances at state titles.

Upper Arlington is DI, is a public school and is an enclosed per say, suburb of Columbus. The difference there is that it is one of the best public school systems in the state of Ohio. It is within a mile of OSU and a lot of professionals (your professors, lawyers, doctors, college coaches, former OSU & pro athletes) live there and it is a stable community with a large tax base and it's one of the few suburbs (Bexley and Dublin come to mind) that passes about any levy or bond issue that is put in front of them so they can have the best libraries, schools, parks etc. so very few students leave a town like that for a better educational or athletic oppurtunity at a parochial or private school. When you have stability like that, success in the classroom and on the athletic fields of endeavor become second nature.

A few things: Waginger stayed at Webster and graduated there. As far as kids attending private schools in the bigger cities it's about more than athletics. In inner city schools the dropout rate is more than 50% and the level of education is not even close to the private schools. Alot of kids who attend the private schools there recieve State vouchers to do so because the public schools there are on academic probation.
As far as the crowd from Clev. Central Catholic, I would venture to say alot of their fans and parents could not afford to come to Columbus. The big question for me is are these kids getting a good education and going on to college and graduating?. Like GAHS has said with open enrollment there should be no more arguments about "Public vs Private".

JohnKnight:

Thanks for the reference to Bob Pond's article. It is very well done and informative. It is far past time for the OHHSAA to review its policies on private schools and transfers in general. Like school funding, where Ohio has drug their feet for over a decade, it does not appear that anyone in authority seems to be in any hurry to deal with this issue. For example, high school basketball has, for the most part, become nothing more than an extension of the AAU season and that is not necessarily a good thing.

The public/private debate has been beat like a dead horse in this state. And, unless there are wholesale changes in personnel AND philosophy within the OHSAA, nothing will change. What most should be concerned about (especially in an economically depressed area like SE Ohio), is the impending skyrocketing costs of pay to play (participate). Go to the Dispatch website and read Bob Hunter's column on it... kinda scary. Just a guess here, but if these schools continue to face drastic cuts due to budget shortfalls AND failed levies, we will be wishing for a "debate" like Public/Private.

In all seriousness, what is the difference in those schools and the Alexander Volleyball's, Oak Hill boys and girls basketballs, and the Logan Elm Basketball teams? I am not calling out any of them just using the "best" examples of "public" schools playing with kids who used the system to change schools. Is there a difference?

"Like GAHS has said with open enrollment there should be no more arguments about "Public vs Private"."

That doesn't even begin to tell the whole story. Comparing "public" to "private" is comparing "apples" to "oranges."

Private schools can pick and choose who they educate which creates an elite environment. Requiring high academic marks for entry and charging tuition make it easier to create the atmosphere that attracts some of the best athletes around. Obviously public schools don't operate in that manner.

Getting a good athlete to come to your school through open enrollment in a county of 25 to 50 thousand is a lot different than amassing a team in a metropolitan area of a half a million of more.

Public vs Private = Two very different animals in most cases. Just because they are some exceptions doesn't take away from the general rule.

Im pretty sure that if u look at it, while we are talking bout Regina, a few of the girls on the roster are not even from the state of Ohio. So much for "they draw from the cleveland area"!!!! Year in, year out the private schools will be better at athletics than the public schools reguardless of size of school. The private schools charge tuition to its students, but in many cases, not to its athletes?? Seems like college to me???

wattsup wrote:I agree that some small town schools do their share of recruiting. Look at South Webster the year they won the state championship. They would not have won it with Brigham Wagginger from Ironton. I believe he even went back and played baseball that very same year for Ironton.

Making things up as you go along?
He wasn't recruited. The coach from Ironton was forced out after Brighams Junior year and Brigham left so he could play with Aldridge who he played AAU ball with. Had Zornes not left Ironton, I highly doubt Brigham transfers.
And he stayed at South Webster and kept his residence even after he graduated and entered college.
Why not get the facts before posting ignorant statements?

jeep80 wrote:

wattsup wrote:I agree that some small town schools do their share of recruiting. Look at South Webster the year they won the state championship. They would not have won it with Brigham Wagginger from Ironton. I believe he even went back and played baseball that very same year for Ironton.

Making things up as you go along?
He wasn't recruited. The coach from Ironton was forced out after Brighams Junior year and Brigham left so he could play with Aldridge who he played AAU ball with. Had Zornes not left Ironton, I highly doubt Brigham transfers.
And he stayed at South Webster and kept his residence even after he graduated and entered college.
Why not get the facts before posting ignorant statements?

Actually, Zornes retired he wasn't forced out of Ironton. His son graduated from Ironton that year and went on to play College ball, he stopped coaching to spend time with his family and follow his sons College career. At the time Ironton hated to see him leave, he's a great Coach.

Private schools should have their own tournaments. The game is completely different for private and public schools; "apples and oranges" as someone else said. I think it's sad that these private schools don't have the community and student support that other SE Ohio public schools have, and it's a let down when you show up at the Schott to watch the "best" high school basketball, and only one team even has a fan base. And no, the number of fans in the crowd may not amount to a hill of beans, but it shows that basketball in that paticular community is important enough to follow. I don't care if people would say who the real champions were, as another poster commented, because at least if public schools played other public schools it would be real high school ball.

Not when a public school borrows players from other teams.Its the same as public vs. private then.