Ethics
Re: Ethics
A winning coach, or a losing one?bballfool wrote:What part does Ethics play in coaching?
Re: Ethics
in either case. In the back of the HFHS hand book there is a section call Coaching Ethics. in the older version, it stated never put the winning of a game before the good of a player. In the new hand book, it isn't in there.
I'm not talking about a certain coach or certain situtation. I am just saying in generel, has the pressure to win over shadowing doing the right thing.
You hear coaches sometimes say things like: I was hired to coach not be a role model or I was hired to win games, win at all costs, etc..
Like I said, I don't have an axe to grind, I am just looking for feed back.
I'm not talking about a certain coach or certain situtation. I am just saying in generel, has the pressure to win over shadowing doing the right thing.
You hear coaches sometimes say things like: I was hired to coach not be a role model or I was hired to win games, win at all costs, etc..
Like I said, I don't have an axe to grind, I am just looking for feed back.
Re: Ethics
I would hope that a coach would have higher ethics that some fans, because I have seen alot of fans that I would definately not want coaching my child....
Re: Ethics
Just like above, If it came down to winning a game or teaching a player the correct way of doing something, which would you choose?
and a coach can not undo all the negitive this that come into a players life, but does the fact that he can not, relieve him from the responsibility of doing the right thing?
and a coach can not undo all the negitive this that come into a players life, but does the fact that he can not, relieve him from the responsibility of doing the right thing?
Re: Ethics
By "correct way of doing something" are you talking about a basketball skill or a life skill? If you mean if a kid got in trouble for something, would I choose to sit him out if it could cost the team a game.....you bet I would. If you mean teaching him something about the game of basketball, I would choose to win the game. You can always teach the basketball skill at practice or in the locker room. Besides, the player (and team) would feel horrible about the loss to justify a teaching lesson on part of the game.bballfool wrote:Just like above, If it came down to winning a game or teaching a player the correct way of doing something, which would you choose?
Re: Ethics
I agree with gahs4ever, most parents teach their kids to respect adults and their peers - I have seen some coaches that push the line on eithic conduct on the sidelines and with players and officials. In my years being involved with sports - I have seen coaches that received technical fouls or a flag for how they were talking to their players. Coaching ethics being with the contract being signed and should continue through the end of the season.
The fans now that is a different story - Most the same parents that teach kids to respect adult and peers are the same ones that are yelling at the officials, players and coaches. I sit sometimes and listen to what the fans are saying for the most part they do not have a clue what is going on with the game. These are the ones that should be made to take the same tests and classes that officials have to take yearly.
The fans now that is a different story - Most the same parents that teach kids to respect adult and peers are the same ones that are yelling at the officials, players and coaches. I sit sometimes and listen to what the fans are saying for the most part they do not have a clue what is going on with the game. These are the ones that should be made to take the same tests and classes that officials have to take yearly.
Re: Ethics
4th and goal, I'm talking about teaching them life lessons. Star player doesn't practice all week, but you need him for the big game. Do you play him?
You know that a kid is taking drugs, do you turn the other way?
Do you apply the team rules accross the board equally?
as far as the fans, there are some that are really bad, but there are a few that are good fans. The really bad ones just stand out awhole lot more than the good ones.
You know that a kid is taking drugs, do you turn the other way?
Do you apply the team rules accross the board equally?
as far as the fans, there are some that are really bad, but there are a few that are good fans. The really bad ones just stand out awhole lot more than the good ones.
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MTSWNGRVSG
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Re: Ethics
The pressure to win can cause a coach or person to try and win sometimes and not do what is best for the young athlete. Sad but true.
Good question bballfool. I know a former coach that will tell you that he made that mistake and regrets that choice now. The coach was called into the office and told that he had to win the game that night or his job was in trouble. The coach was not going to play the starting FB because he had missed practices and was going to send a message to the rest of the team. After the meeting in the office the coach started the FB for the game. Yes the team won but what was learned-that winning was more important than anything else.
Good question bballfool. I know a former coach that will tell you that he made that mistake and regrets that choice now. The coach was called into the office and told that he had to win the game that night or his job was in trouble. The coach was not going to play the starting FB because he had missed practices and was going to send a message to the rest of the team. After the meeting in the office the coach started the FB for the game. Yes the team won but what was learned-that winning was more important than anything else.
Last edited by MTSWNGRVSG on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Ethics
mtswngrvsg, I think there are alot of people that have made mistakes and regreted it later.
We are not perfect, and sometimes we loose focus.
We are not perfect, and sometimes we loose focus.
Re: Ethics
This shows how on college coach went to far with a player in practice.
PHILADELPHIA (AP)
Holy Family men's basketball coach John O'Connor has resigned following his videotaped conflict with former player Matt Kravchuk.
Holy Family forward Sam Mushman told the Associated Press that O'Connor informed the team on Thursday he would step down.
The decision came after O'Connor learned he will not face criminal charges from the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office.
''I would have thought it would have gone a little longer before we found a solution,'' Mushman said by phone. ''It was obviously very upsetting to hear. I'm still kind of, not in shock, but just taking it all in right now.''
A Holy Family spokesman declined comment.
Video of the practice incident hit the Internet and thrust O'Connor and Kravchuk into the national spotlight.
''This is a story that went viral and went, in my view, out of everyone's control,'' said John Gallagher, O'Connor's attorney.
O'Connor apologized to Kravchuk when they appeared Thursday on ABC's ''Good Morning America.'' On the morning show, O'Connor apologized. Kravchuk did not accept it.
Mushman said that O'Connor told the team in person. Mushman wanted to speak out because, except for ''one or two people who are indifferent'' the team backs O'Connor and wanted him to return.
''We never thought the situation would have gotten as blown out of proportion as it has,'' Mushman said.
According to a police report filed on Feb. 11, Kravchuk said he was grabbed and elbowed in the face by O'Connor, a move that allegedly resulted in a bloody nose and a bruised lip. The office's Private Criminal Complaints Unit reviewed the matter, and determined the event does not constitute a prosecutable criminal offense.
On GMA, Kravchuk said O'Connor apologized in a private meeting after the practice, saying he'd crossed the line. Kravchuk said he reported it to athletic director Sandra Michael, and was told it would be dealt with. He returned to practice. But then, after no apparent action was taken, he talked to Michael again, and she refused to divulge what action was taken.
O'Connor, on the show, repeatedly called the encounter an accident, saying he also ''nudged'' Kravchuk with his foot to keep the drill going.
O'Connor said he met with Michael, and they went through the tape together about what was appropriate and what wasn't.
''I just feel that I was coach and I was trying to get my team more competitive and in doing so, I made a mistake,'' he said. ''I would take those 30 seconds back if I could.''
Kravchuk wasn't particularly clear with what he wants the school to do.
''I just want some action taken,'' he said. ''I felt the university owed it to me to take some sort of action and when they didn't, I took it to the police.''
The coach and player then addressed each other.
O'Connor told Kravchuk, ''I was just trying to make us a better team. ... I'm really sorry that it happened. If I could take it back, I certainly would.''
Kravchuk responded, ''It's kind of hard to accept your apology just because you claim it's justified and you weren't crossing the line.''
Kravchuk said he attended the school to play basketball and now he couldn't, because of his wrist injury. He also said he couldn't play for O'Connor.
''As your player I'm supposed to be able to respect you,'' he said, ''and I don't feel I can do that anymore.''
Gallagher said the intention of the TV appearance was to make peace with Kravchuk. When that failed, he advised O'Connor it was time to move on from the team.
''I don't think the final result is justified,'' Gallagher said. ''It became clear to the coach and me there was no coming back, on the train ride coming back from New York.''
Gallagher said O'Connor received a confidential financial settlement from Holy Family.
''The coach was satisfied with the result,'' Gallagher said. ''He has to move on. Next play.''
O'Connor, an assistant coach at Georgia Tech before taking over the tiny Division II program last April, was suspended last Thursday.
Holy Family finishes the Division II regular season Friday at Felician College.
Mushman said the team considered some kind of tribute to their coach, but will simply play in his honor.
''We all know how we feel about him as a team,'' Mushman said. ''It doesn't have to be said. We've spoken out in the news. We've written a team letter together. He knows we bought in to what he was trying to do.''
PHILADELPHIA (AP)
Holy Family men's basketball coach John O'Connor has resigned following his videotaped conflict with former player Matt Kravchuk.
Holy Family forward Sam Mushman told the Associated Press that O'Connor informed the team on Thursday he would step down.
The decision came after O'Connor learned he will not face criminal charges from the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office.
''I would have thought it would have gone a little longer before we found a solution,'' Mushman said by phone. ''It was obviously very upsetting to hear. I'm still kind of, not in shock, but just taking it all in right now.''
A Holy Family spokesman declined comment.
Video of the practice incident hit the Internet and thrust O'Connor and Kravchuk into the national spotlight.
''This is a story that went viral and went, in my view, out of everyone's control,'' said John Gallagher, O'Connor's attorney.
O'Connor apologized to Kravchuk when they appeared Thursday on ABC's ''Good Morning America.'' On the morning show, O'Connor apologized. Kravchuk did not accept it.
Mushman said that O'Connor told the team in person. Mushman wanted to speak out because, except for ''one or two people who are indifferent'' the team backs O'Connor and wanted him to return.
''We never thought the situation would have gotten as blown out of proportion as it has,'' Mushman said.
According to a police report filed on Feb. 11, Kravchuk said he was grabbed and elbowed in the face by O'Connor, a move that allegedly resulted in a bloody nose and a bruised lip. The office's Private Criminal Complaints Unit reviewed the matter, and determined the event does not constitute a prosecutable criminal offense.
On GMA, Kravchuk said O'Connor apologized in a private meeting after the practice, saying he'd crossed the line. Kravchuk said he reported it to athletic director Sandra Michael, and was told it would be dealt with. He returned to practice. But then, after no apparent action was taken, he talked to Michael again, and she refused to divulge what action was taken.
O'Connor, on the show, repeatedly called the encounter an accident, saying he also ''nudged'' Kravchuk with his foot to keep the drill going.
O'Connor said he met with Michael, and they went through the tape together about what was appropriate and what wasn't.
''I just feel that I was coach and I was trying to get my team more competitive and in doing so, I made a mistake,'' he said. ''I would take those 30 seconds back if I could.''
Kravchuk wasn't particularly clear with what he wants the school to do.
''I just want some action taken,'' he said. ''I felt the university owed it to me to take some sort of action and when they didn't, I took it to the police.''
The coach and player then addressed each other.
O'Connor told Kravchuk, ''I was just trying to make us a better team. ... I'm really sorry that it happened. If I could take it back, I certainly would.''
Kravchuk responded, ''It's kind of hard to accept your apology just because you claim it's justified and you weren't crossing the line.''
Kravchuk said he attended the school to play basketball and now he couldn't, because of his wrist injury. He also said he couldn't play for O'Connor.
''As your player I'm supposed to be able to respect you,'' he said, ''and I don't feel I can do that anymore.''
Gallagher said the intention of the TV appearance was to make peace with Kravchuk. When that failed, he advised O'Connor it was time to move on from the team.
''I don't think the final result is justified,'' Gallagher said. ''It became clear to the coach and me there was no coming back, on the train ride coming back from New York.''
Gallagher said O'Connor received a confidential financial settlement from Holy Family.
''The coach was satisfied with the result,'' Gallagher said. ''He has to move on. Next play.''
O'Connor, an assistant coach at Georgia Tech before taking over the tiny Division II program last April, was suspended last Thursday.
Holy Family finishes the Division II regular season Friday at Felician College.
Mushman said the team considered some kind of tribute to their coach, but will simply play in his honor.
''We all know how we feel about him as a team,'' Mushman said. ''It doesn't have to be said. We've spoken out in the news. We've written a team letter together. He knows we bought in to what he was trying to do.''
Re: Ethics
ethics are a usually as good as the record for "major" sports in high school. i know many a "ethical" coach that lost their jobs do to records, and "not so nice" coaches keep their jobs because of records. winning soothes a lot of wounds and makes the not so nice things ok. a weird world we live in.
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Larry Bird
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Re: Ethics
Is this post about fan behavior coming from a guy with a kid peeing on anoter team as an avatar??????? That's like me posting about human rights!!!gahs4ever wrote:When you win everybody takes the credit. When you lose you stand alone.
Personally I think it hypocritcal to demand a higher ethic than the fans at his school. I mean, they have muuuuuuuuuuuuch more lasting influence than any coach will ever have.
You cant have immature, juvenile adults and expect any coach to oercome that. Back in my preaching days, I likened it to people who expected me to be a miracle worker with their kids at the same time they were having french fried preacher on the way home from church.
Credibility destroyed.
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Moses Guthrie
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Re: Ethics
Please give me your opinion on the ethics involved in a situation which occurrred last night in a game between Portsmouth and South Point..
With Portsmouth up 2 points with 2 seconds remaining in the game, Portsmouth is beginning to inbound the ball at half court. Before the inbounds, A South Point player intentionally pinches a Portsmouth player (in a manner in which there are visible bruises) in order to receive a retaliation. The Portsmouth kid does retaliate and a technical foul is called on the Portsmouth player.
Is it ok to win at all costs? How does this decision reflect South Point's staff? I understand this may have been their only opportunity to pull this out, however from my perspective it was morally and ethically wrong.... Thoughts?
With Portsmouth up 2 points with 2 seconds remaining in the game, Portsmouth is beginning to inbound the ball at half court. Before the inbounds, A South Point player intentionally pinches a Portsmouth player (in a manner in which there are visible bruises) in order to receive a retaliation. The Portsmouth kid does retaliate and a technical foul is called on the Portsmouth player.
Is it ok to win at all costs? How does this decision reflect South Point's staff? I understand this may have been their only opportunity to pull this out, however from my perspective it was morally and ethically wrong.... Thoughts?
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Moses Guthrie
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Re: Ethics
This was indeed a dead ball situation..
There was no way for the official to see the first offense (a hard pinch to the arm)..
Granted the Portsmouth player should understand not to retaliate with the game in hand. All he did was react to the sharp pain..
The previous play saw South Point's coach called for a technical foul for calling a timeout with zero remaining. He admitted in the Ironton Tribune for knowingly calling the timeout in order to stop the clock after South Point's made basket.. Portsmouth was shooting two free throws which gave South Point's staff an opportunity to advise their team on the dead ball inbounds by Portsmouth in which the pinch from South Point's player and the retaliation and technical foul on Portsmouth occurred... Yes I am presuming he was told by his coach to do this.
There was no way for the official to see the first offense (a hard pinch to the arm)..
Granted the Portsmouth player should understand not to retaliate with the game in hand. All he did was react to the sharp pain..
The previous play saw South Point's coach called for a technical foul for calling a timeout with zero remaining. He admitted in the Ironton Tribune for knowingly calling the timeout in order to stop the clock after South Point's made basket.. Portsmouth was shooting two free throws which gave South Point's staff an opportunity to advise their team on the dead ball inbounds by Portsmouth in which the pinch from South Point's player and the retaliation and technical foul on Portsmouth occurred... Yes I am presuming he was told by his coach to do this.
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Moses Guthrie
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Re: Ethics
The ending was as strange an ending to a basketball game as I have ever witnessed:
There was an intentional foul on South Point for grabbing the heals of a Portsmouth player on a fast break.
The technical on South Point's coach for calling a TO with none remaining in order to stop the clock with 2 seconds remaining and down 1 point..
The ensuing technical on Portsmouth for retaliating to the actions of a South Point player.
There was an intentional foul on South Point for grabbing the heals of a Portsmouth player on a fast break.
The technical on South Point's coach for calling a TO with none remaining in order to stop the clock with 2 seconds remaining and down 1 point..
The ensuing technical on Portsmouth for retaliating to the actions of a South Point player.
Re: Ethics
I've said it before. Coaches are no different than any other segment of society. Some are in it for the right reasons, some are not. Some are really poor examples of ethics and morals. The problem with some high school coaches is that they think student athletes are stupid. They also, as most posters on sites like these do, think all parents are idiots. Student athletes know when a coach does not apply rules equally. They can also see what truly motivates a coach. They know when a W is everything. They also become adults and they remember. I know a few parents that are better coaches than the person that is on the sideline, court, or diamond.