As promised.., Setting Vinton County's Record Straight

[hawkeyepierce]

As promised, I have done some research. So much as been made of Vinton County Boys’ basketball schedule this season, heck, for that matter, the last three seasons; I am here to set the record straight. Please, follow closely.

During these somewhat friendly banters, two questions came to the forefront, our record against the SEOAL and our record against other schools our size. I will answer both of these questions.

As you look at Vinton County’s record against the SEOAL; first, the overall, lifetime record is – 35 – 52 that is .402 winning percentage.

Now let’s extrapolate this further; Vinton County versus the Old SEOAL (Athens, Gallia Academy, Jackson, Logan, Marietta, Warren, and Wellston) is 35 – 50, that is .411 winning percentage. They are as follows, Vinton County’s win are listed first;

6 – 8 Athens
5 – 7 Gallia
15 – 22 Jackson
4 – 5 Logan
0 – 1 Marietta
2 – 2 Warren
3 – 5 Wellston

Now, Vinton County is 0 – 2 against the Modern SEOAL;

0 – 2 Chillicothe
0 – 0 Ironton
0 – 0 Portsmouth
0 – 0 Zanesville

Now, that begs the question, how does the Modern Vinton County Vikings compare; before Coach Matt Combs, Vinton County’s record is 15 – 36 (.294 winning percentage) against the SEOAL. That is right boys and girls, Vinton County’s record against the SEOAL during Coach Combs’s career is 20 – 16 a .555 winning percentage.

2000-01 1 – 3 (Win against Logan, Losses, Jackson, Athens, Gallia)
2001-02 1 – 2 (Win against Jackson, Losses, Logan, Athens)
2002-03 1 – 2 (Win against Athens, Losses, Jackson, Warren)
2003-04 3 – 0 (Wins, Athens X2, Jackson)
2004-05 2 – 2 (Wins, Athens, Warren, Losses, Jackson, Gallia)
2005-06 2 – 1 (Wins, Athens, Jackson, Loss, Warren)
2006-07 4 – 1 (Wins, Athens X2, Jackson, Warren, Loss, Chillicothe)
2007-08 2 – 1 (Wins, Athens, Jackson, Loss, Chillicothe)
2008-09 3 – 0 (Wins, Logan, Jackson, Gallia)
2009-10 0 – 2 (Losses, Logan, Jackson)
2010-11 1 – 2 (Win against Logan, Losses, Jackson, Marietta)

Furthermore, looking at other conferences, Coach Combs has a winning record against the MVL (10 – 0), the SCOL (4 – 3), and the SVC (12 –8).

Now to answer the second question; the Vikings have a record of 31 – 12 (.721 winning percentage) against DI and DII schools over the last five years.

These are the facts; they are undeniable. However, we are still being measured by the league in which we play, astounding.

[The Wizard]

These are the facts; they are undeniable. However, we are still being measured by the league in which we play, astounding.

Your league is so bad your schedule allows for a certain number of wins each year. Your schedule is really about your non-conference and who you play and how you did. Not knocking VC, they are the class of the TVC but do the same with the next team in the TVC. You should look to leave the TVC if you want more respect because in D2 that league is not getting it. Also if you only play 6 tough games a year it is easier to get up for those. Try playing Warren, Posrtsmouth, Chilli in 10 days and you will see the difference, just a fact. Not like playing N-Y, Alex, Meigs in 10 days.

[Maroon Shorts]

These are the facts; they are undeniable. However, we are still being measured by the league in which we play, astounding.

Your league is so bad your schedule allows for a certain number of wins each year. Your schedule is really about your non-conference and who you play and how you did. Not knocking VC, they are the class of the TVC but do the same with the next team in the TVC. You should look to leave the TVC if you want more respect because in D2 that league is not getting it. Also if you only play 6 tough games a year it is easier to get up for those. Try playing Warren, Posrtsmouth, Chilli in 10 days and you will see the difference, just a fact. Not like playing N-Y, Alex, Meigs in 10 days.

You're everything wrong with High School basketball. I'm pretty sure there are three teams at the Convo from the T.V.C. this year in Meigs, Wellston, and Alexander. Vinton County had they played all four quarters against Piketon would have won, heck they almost beat them by playing hard in just the fourth quarter. Vinton County is more than the class of the Tri-Valley Conference, they are one of the best programs in D-II basketball in Southern Ohio and Ohio. Go Vikings.

[amazinghocks]

vinton county beat piketon

[Spartan]

I could care less what the naysayers have to say about our league. And so should the rest of you. Every night in the TVC is an exciting atmosphere. Nobody has to explain anything to anybody.

[Im All In]

You're right Spartan. The only people that really complain about the TVC are those who are jealous of it and in many cases wish they could be a part of it. They are upset because they can't win their league, in many cases even in their best year, and they play in front of terrible crowds/atmosphere's on many nights. They get jealous at teams that have league championships to show for their efforts and play in front of packed housed almost every night.

Consider this as well. Many of the same schools that complain about the TVC have tried continually petition the league to try to get in! If it's such a bad league why would other D2 schools be begging to join?

[el savior]

You're right Spartan. The only people that really complain about the TVC are those who are jealous of it and in many cases wish they could be a part of it. They are upset because they can't win their league, in many cases even in their best year, and they play in front of terrible crowds/atmosphere's on many nights. They get jealous at teams that have league championships to show for their efforts and play in front of packed housed almost every night.

Consider this as well. Many of the same schools that complain about the TVC have tried continually petition the league to try to get in! If it's such a bad league why would other D2 schools be begging to join?

To win and travel for such teams would be much easier. The 4th place SEOAL team beat the TVC champion. Of course everyone would like to win league championships, but there is no denying that the SEOAL is much tougher every given night.

I don't think any one is jealous because they have more league championships... That is like saying Purdue (Big Ten) is jealous of Siena (MAAC) because over the past 5 years they have more league/conference championships. If it makes you feel better to beat your chest about winning the TVC, go for it.

[hawkeyepierce]

The Wizard, that is the crux of it, right there with what you had typed. Let me explain. Granted, no one is denying, the SEOAL is a very good, I would say great league. However, over the past few years, Logan has dominated in football, and recently in basketball it has been Chillicothe, why? Logan is a small DI school among a bunch of DIII or smaller. Chillicothe, just six or seven years removed from DI and five years remove from the Mega Ohio Capital Conference. These two schools have several advantages that others do not, for example; a greater number of athletes enrolled, in fact, the City of Chillicothes' population is more than 10,000 residents than the County of Vinton. This creates, better socio-economics for the athletes and access to more athletic resources, the YMCA, rec leagues, and people who can create opportunities for the young aspiring athlete.

Furthermore, the SEOAL has gotten in the way of itself. I am not sure if it was arrogance, or if it was the genuine thought of composition, but with the expansion, the benefits were grossly defeated by the costs. I was one of the first on this forum to say that the SEOAL would fail. It seemed to me that there was not enough foresight considered. Questions, I had, granted at the time the economy was prosperous and gas was a $1.50 a gallon; however, who, what type of fan, would travel to Zanesville from Portsmouth, or Marietta to Ironton, and vice versus? What if it is a girls' game on a Wednesday night? Gates would almost certainly suffer. Again, the intentions were great. But now, here we are, schools are looking to get out faster than a NASCAR lap. And, three of these, powerful, great SEOAL schools have petition for entrance in the meek, week, ugly TVC.

And yes I know, some of these same principles can be said in relation to the TVC. Trust me, the TVC has it problems and I have not been a big fan. However, the TVC powers to be are finding out, that the Athens entrance has shifted the competitive parity, greatly. Since their entrance in 2008-09 school year, they have won the All-Sports Banner each year and racking up multiple TVC championships and poise to do so this year. Why? Well just like Logan and Chillicothe, they have the resources, the opportunities from socio-economics, and great people (I know most of them, shout out to Bulldog64, diamond1, and G.W.) to put it all together. It forces the smaller schools to catch-up and some of them just simply cannot.

One more thing, as a student of human behavior and the social environment I noticed in your retort, you had said the following; "Try playing Warren, Posrtsmouth, Chilli in 10 days and you will see the difference, It is a plausible arguement; however, it is problem-based, as if there is a problem with us. No, there is isn't. We cannot apologize for the league in which we play, that was set up 43 years ago. Furthermore, when Vinton County had trouble finding dates, there are schools in the SEOAL that would not schedule us; Warren had dropped us, and Gallia said "No, Thank You." Recently, the only "yes" they would play, was from Logan and Coach Myers. That is why you see a team like Shinakah Christian on the schedule this past season. What are we to do? I have said it before and I will say again, there is a fine in scheduling to be competitive and tested, than beaten and discouraged. It sounds as if you are discouraged? Discouragement leads to jealousy and it not our fault that Vinton County's boys' basketball success causes other to be jealous of our current situation.

I would like nothing more than to leave the TVC, my first pick is the SVC. If the SVC decides to expand, I hope that we will and them would consider us as a choice. I also would not be afraid to join the Old SEOAL, we try to play most of them anyways.

Now having said all of that; Coach Combs has built a very, solid, respectable program, and he has the respect of his peers, and most importantly, his community. Would you agree?

[sparky]

how many of those tvc schools will get out of the district?

[Hoppy]

Hawkeye,

I will agree Matt has done a nice job with the Vinton Co basketball program. Vinton Co can only play the teams that they are scheduled to play. Yes their league has been down the last few years but it isn't their fault. Matt seems to try and schedule non league teams that he thinks can help his team plus long time rivals. I hope the TVC teams improve the next few years because the league seems to have some nice rivalries.

[The Wizard]

Hawkeye

We are not in the SEOAL and league championships are not a problem for our program.
I agree with most that VC is at the top of the TVC and in most years the southeast district. My only point is that your schedule only allows you so many options to test yourself. It is also much easier to get up or prepare for one game. I bet this year the practices and effort before and during the Piketon game were much better than they were when you were preparing for one of the middle of the road TVC teams. Imagine if your kids had to prepare for a Warren, Porstmouth, and Chilli in a ten day span as some SEOAL teams did this year. Initally it might be a struggle but over time your program either rises to the challenge (see Zanesville) or it doesn't. Most of the time it depends on the staff and the kids and I don't think that would be a problem at VC.
My point is I am not sure of the rest of your conference has the commitment VC has and that hurts VC in seeding, polling, voting for athletes etc. Your example of Athens is a prefect example of why the TVC is considered weak. They were a doormat and now compete for titles without having any growing pains, they just entered the league and were dominant in most sports and compwetive in the big ones.

[hawkeyepierce]

You're right Spartan. The only people that really complain about the TVC are those who are jealous of it and in many cases wish they could be a part of it. They are upset because they can't win their league, in many cases even in their best year, and they play in front of terrible crowds/atmosphere's on many nights. They get jealous at teams that have league championships to show for their efforts and play in front of packed housed almost every night.

Consider this as well. Many of the same schools that complain about the TVC have tried continually petition the league to try to get in! If it's such a bad league why would other D2 schools be begging to join?

To win and travel for such teams would be much easier. The 4th place SEOAL team beat the TVC champion. Of course everyone would like to win league championships, but there is no denying that the SEOAL is much tougher every given night.

I don't think any one is jealous because they have more league championships... That is like saying Purdue (Big Ten) is jealous of Siena (MAAC) because over the past 5 years they have more league/conference championships. If it makes you feel better to beat your chest about winning the TVC, go for it.

Another valid point. However, does Siena have to constantly defend themselves on forums such as this one? Does Siena have to apologize to Purdue or the Big Ten for their championships? If we were to extrapolate this thinking further, Siena would have to win a National Championship to garner respect. Is that what Vinton County has to do, win a State Championship? Of course not, and it is not about chest-thumping, it is about being presented with all of the facts and making clear and reasonable inferences about said team, despite personal bias and/or affiliations.

Hawkeye

We are not in the SEOAL and league championships are not a problem for our program.
I agree with most that VC is at the top of the TVC and in most years the southeast district. My only point is that your schedule only allows you so many options to test yourself. It is also much easier to get up or prepare for one game. I bet this year the practices and effort before and during the Piketon game were much better than they were when you were preparing for one of the middle of the road TVC teams. Imagine if your kids had to prepare for a Warren, Porstmouth, and Chilli in a ten day span as some SEOAL teams did this year. Initally it might be a struggle but over time your program either rises to the challenge (see Zanesville) or it doesn't. Most of the time it depends on the staff and the kids and I don't think that would be a problem at VC.
My point is I am not sure of the rest of your conference has the commitment VC has and that hurts VC in seeding, polling, voting for athletes etc. Your example of Athens is a prefect example of why the TVC is considered weak. They were a doormat and now compete for titles without having any growing pains, they just entered the league and were dominant in most sports and compwetive in the big ones.

Yes, understood. Again, is that Vinton County's fault? No, of course not. But yet, we take the beating.

[mister b]

VC being in the TVC is right for them. You can't just look at 1 sport or just boys sports, you have to look at the entire athletic program.

Fact, VC is a rather large school for SE Ohio. However, they are not a city school, they are a rural SE Ohio school than encompasses an entire county. Just because they have a large enrollment does not neccessarily mean they can compete, night after night, both boys and girls sports, against schools of their size that are mainly city schools. They can against most other SE Ohio schools because we are comparing apples to apples. Not apples to oranges.

For a player to be on a team in VC can mean a lot of travel from home to school for practice and games. Many kids in city schools have a much smaller travel area to do this in and some form of transportation other than their family car. An example would be public transportation or a short walking distance.

While playing some of the teams in the TVC doesn't prepare VC for a deep tourney run as say a D3 or D4 TVC school, they play enough games out of conference that fill the bill. Anyone who has an common sense will know that it is much easier for the small SE Ohio schools to advance in any state tourney than it is for a VC, Athens, Logan etc.

With that said, I would like to see the TVC add some larger schools so that the conference could go to 3 6 team divisions based on enrollment. VC and some of the other larger TVC Ohio schools would play catch up for a few years, but in the long haul, it would benefit their own programs and the TVC in general.

[noreply66]

You're right Spartan. The only people that really complain about the TVC are those who are jealous of it and in many cases wish they could be a part of it. They are upset because they can't win their league, in many cases even in their best year, and they play in front of terrible crowds/atmosphere's on many nights. They get jealous at teams that have league championships to show for their efforts and play in front of packed housed almost every night.

Consider this as well. Many of the same schools that complain about the TVC have tried continually petition the league to try to get in! If it's such a bad league why would other D2 schools be begging to join?

To win and travel for such teams would be much easier. The 4th place SEOAL team beat the TVC champion. Of course everyone would like to win league championships, but there is no denying that the SEOAL is much tougher every given night.

I don't think any one is jealous because they have more league championships... That is like saying Purdue (Big Ten) is jealous of Siena (MAAC) because over the past 5 years they have more league/conference championships. If it makes you feel better to beat your chest about winning the TVC, go for it.

Didn't Jackson beat VC this year? [7th place]

I like VC--been a strong team over the past decade--go Vikes

[Blackjack]

Coach Combs has done a good job but all the credit for the success of the Vikings Basketball program should go to the judge. He has the best biddie basketball program around. Without the judge, VC basketball would finish in the middle of the TVC at best year end year out.

[NYBuckeye96]

I'm hearing that if Vinton County would drop its vice against Warren, Warren would be in the TVC. Possibly 2 other SEOAL schools would as well.

Could it be that the only think keeping the SEOAL together today is Vinton County?

[svbt1112]

As promised.., stirring the pot and making sure people are still talking about Vinton County even when their season is over!


And, Nicely Done btw :12223

[1974Viking]

It is not a vice against the schools O & B, we are just messing with them...... Let em in and we can make the TVC a Super League....at least in theory. Then we can go after all the private schools up North

I have thought up of a way for the post Season..bear in mind this is just for some idle talk. How about having a All Star Team from all the teams in a League you play in, to compete in the playoffs. Maybe then we will be able to compete against the Private Schools.. A lot of schools up there are doing this to a level now.

[datchillicav]

The Wizard, that is the crux of it, right there with what you had typed. Let me explain. Granted, no one is denying, the SEOAL is a very good, I would say great league. However, over the past few years, Logan has dominated in football, and recently in basketball it has been Chillicothe, why? Logan is a small DI school among a bunch of DIII or smaller. Chillicothe, just six or seven years removed from DI and five years remove from the Mega Ohio Capital Conference. These two schools have several advantages that others do not, for example; a greater number of athletes enrolled, in fact, the City of Chillicothes' population is more than 10,000 residents than the County of Vinton. This creates, better socio-economics for the athletes and access to more athletic resources, the YMCA, rec leagues, and people who can create opportunities for the young aspiring athlete.

Logan is D2 in football D1 in Bball
Chilli is D3 in football D2 in Bball. They are no where near being D1. Have not been D1 in Football since 1998. Furthermore, they are smaller than SEOAL schools Logan, Marrietta, Jackson, and Warren as well as recent SEOAL schools Athens and Zanesville. They are currently the 5th largest school in the league so attributing their success to enrollment would be misguided. And yes, the CITY of Chillicothe does have more people than every other city in SEO, BUT all of Chillicothe is not located within the city limits. The far Northern part of Bridge street is Zane Trace district, The far part of Western ave. is Unioto district, shortly south of the MEAD(or whatever they call it now) is Huntington district. Also, Southeastern H.S. is less than 10 minutes away. I think there are like 8 public high schools in Ross County so just because the CITY is the biggest, does not mean the enrollment is the biggest.

Sorry to highjack a V.C. thread. Just wanted to correct you so you know in the future.

V.C. is a fine program and cannot help the league they play in. However, the competition that you play will greatly effect the development of your team to compete in the postseason for better or worse and the perception is that the TVC is the weaker of the two leagues. Enrollment probably has a lot to do with that but people can argue about that all day.

[hawkeyepierce]

Yes, you are correct. I was in a hurry and made those typos. However, the point is this, as to what I saw last night, Chillicothe should win the next ten districts titles and make several runs at regional titles over the next decade. Let me explain. First, it does not matter to the extent to of Chillicothe's city limits. The population is the population. Secondly, their enrollment figure is 331, fifth largest in the district. Third, they have access to the greatest number of resources. Lastly, the have access to the specialized athletes. Chillicothe has produced two Division I college basketball athletes in the last five years, (Hitchens, Ragland), Vinton County is yet to produce one. Furthermore, many rural schools, have the two or three sports athlete.

In case you are wondering;

Marietta - 393
Athens - 363
Warren - 362 (Rural)
Hillsboro - 346
Chillicothe - 331
Sheridan - 321 (Rural)
Miami Trace - 312 (Rural)
Jackson - 301
Vinton County - 296 (Rural)
Circleville - 290
Logan Elm - 274 (Rural)
Gallia Academy - 268
Washington Court Hourse - 266
New Lexington - 264 (Rural)
Greenfield McClain - 261 (Rural)
Waverly - 253
Unioto - 246 (Rural)
Fairfield Union - 241 (Rural)