Oak hill@Minford 1/13

[osu]

Thoughts??

[roxanna fry]

Minford playing great ball right now; haven't had a chance to see the Oaks yet

[pfloyd]

… this IS the barometer game I will be looking at to see where the youngsters for Oak Hill stand at the half way point of the season … best of luck to both teams in this Big Matchup …

[Badboy]

I have to think that Norm will take the air out of the ball and his offense will be as entertaining as watching grass grow. I dont think Oak Hill wants to start running the court with the Falcons.

Minford by 15

[osu]

If they would have called the foul when cox was shooting a three with a second left . I think the oaks would have taken the air out of the falcons. Tough one to lose by 2 for the young oaks.

[Regulator]

Can someone explain how in the World this was a 2 pt game? Is it really coaching?

Don't understand how teams always fall into the "Norm" trap when it comes to tempo!!

No way Minford should only win by two. Just my opinion. Credit to Oak Hill for staying that close and having a shot at winning. No Credit to Minford for allowing an inferior team a chance to win at the end.

[CCC]

it must be coaching. Minford has beaten Oak Hill 8 straight times and they have always been close games. And as I recall Oak Hill gave Valley a run for their money last year at valley and had a chance to win it from the free throw line and ended up losing by 2 points. The year before that Oak Hill beat valley twice Minford beat Oak Hill twice and Valley beat Minford twice. Point being is that Oak Hill plays the best teams each year to close games and every team cannot win by 20 each game their will be games that you have to grind it out and the Falcons had to this tonight and as good as Valley was last year they had to do the same last year. Norm does a good job no doubt but so does Shoemaker keeping his teams focus when things aren't going as planned. Minford could have easily folded but made solid plays when it counted.

[mglight88]

It was a close game and it usually is close games. Norm's style of offense would be none existent if OHSAA mandated shot clocks. That was a tough call on the 3 pt. shot and foul late in the game, but it's basketball and in tight games, refs will always be on the fence about this or that call made or not made. Congrats to the Falcons in keeping their winning streak intact in conference play. Another big one Friday at Valley.

[roxanna fry]

it must be coaching. Minford has beaten Oak Hill 8 straight times and they have always been close games. And as I recall Oak Hill gave Valley a run for their money last year at valley and had a chance to win it from the free throw line and ended up losing by 2 points. The year before that Oak Hill beat valley twice Minford beat Oak Hill twice and Valley beat Minford twice. Point being is that Oak Hill plays the best teams each year to close games and every team cannot win by 20 each game their will be games that you have to grind it out and the Falcons had to this tonight and as good as Valley was last year they had to do the same last year. Norm does a good job no doubt but so does Shoemaker keeping his teams focus when things aren't going as planned. Minford could have easily folded but made solid plays when it counted.

Good point but you also cannot ignore an obvious strength against a team that had no size. The only player with any size got 2 quick fouls when he was brought in and if I'm not mistaken, never returned to the floor. But, he didn't have to as Minford ignored their obvious advantage in the post once again until they absolutely needed to come back and build a lead. It was very clear from the stands that if we could stretch even a 5-8 point lead it would change the entire tempo of the game and prevent Oak Hill from taking the air out of the ball. IMO same story that plagues Minford against this team each year. Lack of discipline early in the game forces them to play to Oak Hill's tempo and strengths. First quarter saw several quick shots or forced shots 1 on 2 or 1 on 3. I don't think I saw over two passes on hardly any possessions in the first half. Oak Hill on the other hand got up just a few points and kept passing the ball around. Minford extended the 1-2-2 and since Oak Hill is so disciplined they picked it apart for easy lay ups other than a few errant passes from a young team. Minford man to man lacked commitment. Players need to play both ends of the court! Every time Minford switches the screens they look terrible. Man to man in the second half was much better once they fought through or slipped the screens. They were stronger and IMO should fight through the screens. I still don't see the TEAM defensive effort. Players can't just play one end of the court and not commit to defense. Being a little slower is not an excuse for not playing hard defense: effort is. Certainly some players cannot close out without control against certain players. It appeared to me Minford players were dropping almost to the baseline in help side at times but luckily Oak Hill had primarily one player who could knock down the 3. Minford continues to give up the baseline for some reason and the help isn't there! Key to the game was making a commitment to getting the ball to the post. I have yet to see a Minford game yet in which post entry didn't pay off. How can you forget about it for long stretches? Shots being taken early in possessions that they can get anytime. Very little inside to out but partly because of Oak Hill game plan. They shadowed one shooter for awhile and then just let Minford shoot the 3, which again wasn't made with consistency. Very similar start to the West game last week as far as shot selection but shots were falling. But again the game changed when the ball was entered to the post. I think Oak Hill definitely had a great game plan, doubling in the post and letting Minford shoot the 3 for much of the game. Even with the double teams, when Minford showed some patience and didn't hoist the first open shot (which they can get at any point of the possession) they STILL were easily able to enter the ball to the post for some good shots and interior passes. I cannot understand the early and often 3 point shots in Minford's games. They are talented enough to get those shots at ANY point in a possession. They also are not making a good percentage of them. Establishing the inside game early will also open up better looks from the perimeter on inside to out passing. In the games I've seen, they are definitely knocking down more of the inside-out looks from the perimeter. Would be an interesting stat to chart? Minford battled and are doing something right or they wouldn't be having the success against Oak Hill over the past three years. However, with the disparity in talent, Oak Hill has definitely played Minford to the wire. Better early discipline by Minford and more deliberate post entry and I believe this game isn't even close. Oak Hill discipline very impressive from a young group. Minford must change the game plan when they go to Oak Hill IMO. Norm consistently takes less talent and impresses. The team he took to the regionals the last time shouldn't have even been on the court against those teams. But their discipline and commitment to the system was amazing. Most of their shots were layups at the rim. However, it is due time for these officials to penalize a coach for profane and bullish behavior. Why does being a great coach afford anyone the ability to spout profanities around high school athletes without consequence? Classless display of the tirade directed towards either our AD or superintendent! And frankly, the kid got fouled obviously before he attempted any shot. I saw no less than four obvious traveling violations from Oak Hill that went "unnoticed". Minford earned the win!

[Regulator]

My point exactly. Oak Hill gives these teams a run for the money because A. They dictate Tempo B. The opposing coaches don't play matchups well with Oak Hill.

I have seen Oak Hill this year, you take the two guards out of the game and you will easily win the game. But for some reason, teams don't do this.

As for the Oak Hill Coach screaming profanity or bullish behavior, It's been going on for years. No one has the nerve to tell him to knock it off for some reason. He is comical to watch though!!

[BBaller4Life]

Minford came out sluggish right from the start, probably from the boys being up too late watching the Buckeye's game, and they really never woke up. I think you will see a better game out of the Falcons when the game is played at Oak Hill. Yes, I know it will be a battle in Norm's House but I think they will be ready to play.
I was impressed by Oak Hill's Freshmen's play, they shoot the ball really well, but watching them be degraded by their coach when he pulled them off the floor each time just may break down their confidence, they seemed very nervous when they came to the bench (but that's another subject).
Though I don't really care for Norm's kind of play (a hundred passes per possession) it does seem to work for them. Everyone knows Norm plays a snail's pace game so you should be ready for a boring game on his side of the ball. The Falcon's will need to change the game plan next game and make Oak Hill play to our pace.

Glad to see the Falcon's come away with the win in this game and looking forward to a great game on Friday at Valley. :aaaaa26

[Falcon Fury]

it must be coaching. Minford has beaten Oak Hill 8 straight times and they have always been close games. And as I recall Oak Hill gave Valley a run for their money last year at valley and had a chance to win it from the free throw line and ended up losing by 2 points. The year before that Oak Hill beat valley twice Minford beat Oak Hill twice and Valley beat Minford twice. Point being is that Oak Hill plays the best teams each year to close games and every team cannot win by 20 each game their will be games that you have to grind it out and the Falcons had to this tonight and as good as Valley was last year they had to do the same last year. Norm does a good job no doubt but so does Shoemaker keeping his teams focus when things aren't going as planned. Minford could have easily folded but made solid plays when it counted.

Great post! I am proud of the Falcon players for making plays when they counted and pulling out the victory, even though they didn't have one of their best nights. That's what winners do...find a way to win. Very classless act by Norm screaming profanity at our AD/Super! What I don't understand is how the Oak Hill Board of Administration will continue to back him and keep him around. His kids are superb as well as his assistants.

Get focused Falcons, sure would be great to get another big win on Friday over the Indians!! GO FALCONS!!!

[bbjunky81]

it must be coaching. Minford has beaten Oak Hill 8 straight times and they have always been close games. And as I recall Oak Hill gave Valley a run for their money last year at valley and had a chance to win it from the free throw line and ended up losing by 2 points. The year before that Oak Hill beat valley twice Minford beat Oak Hill twice and Valley beat Minford twice. Point being is that Oak Hill plays the best teams each year to close games and every team cannot win by 20 each game their will be games that you have to grind it out and the Falcons had to this tonight and as good as Valley was last year they had to do the same last year. Norm does a good job no doubt but so does Shoemaker keeping his teams focus when things aren't going as planned. Minford could have easily folded but made solid plays when it counted.

Great post! I am proud of the Falcon players for making plays when they counted and pulling out the victory, even though they didn't have one of their best nights. That's what winners do...find a way to win. Very classless act by Norm screaming profanity at our AD/Super! What I don't understand is how the Oak Hill Board of Administration will continue to back him and keep him around. His kids are superb as well as his assistants.

Get focused Falcons, sure would be great to get another big win on Friday over the Indians!! GO FALCONS!!!

Some schools are way more worried about "winning" than anything else, as is the case here. Norm is obviously going to win games, and he extracts a ton out of what players he's given. But some of the things he does (both on and off the court) is definitely over the top, and people have continuously let it slide for years.

Much credit to the players at Oak Hill. They were clearly out manned last night and nearly pulled off the upset. Very solid job by the Oaks!

[roxanna fry]

it must be coaching. Minford has beaten Oak Hill 8 straight times and they have always been close games. And as I recall Oak Hill gave Valley a run for their money last year at valley and had a chance to win it from the free throw line and ended up losing by 2 points. The year before that Oak Hill beat valley twice Minford beat Oak Hill twice and Valley beat Minford twice. Point being is that Oak Hill plays the best teams each year to close games and every team cannot win by 20 each game their will be games that you have to grind it out and the Falcons had to this tonight and as good as Valley was last year they had to do the same last year. Norm does a good job no doubt but so does Shoemaker keeping his teams focus when things aren't going as planned. Minford could have easily folded but made solid plays when it counted.

Great post! I am proud of the Falcon players for making plays when they counted and pulling out the victory, even though they didn't have one of their best nights. That's what winners do...find a way to win. Very classless act by Norm screaming profanity at our AD/Super! What I don't understand is how the Oak Hill Board of Administration will continue to back him and keep him around. His kids are superb as well as his assistants.

Get focused Falcons, sure would be great to get another big win on Friday over the Indians!! GO FALCONS!!!

Some schools are way more worried about "winning" than anything else, as is the case here. Norm is obviously going to win games, and he extracts a ton out of what players he's given. But some of the things he does (both on and off the court) is definitely over the top, and people have continuously let it slide for years.

Much credit to the players at Oak Hill. They were clearly out manned last night and nearly pulled off the upset. Very solid job by the Oaks!

Great posts!! I guess what I lost in my post is that Minford's staff really has a good relationship with their players from what I see and I've never known them to have the antics I saw last night from the opposition. I am guilty of getting too wrapped up in the x's and o's of sports so here's a shout out to Coach Shoemaker and the staff for doing it with class and respect for our kids year in and year out. At the end of the day, that's more important than always agreeing on the x's and o's!!

[roxanna fry]

Minford came out sluggish right from the start, probably from the boys being up too late watching the Buckeye's game, and they really never woke up. I think you will see a better game out of the Falcons when the game is played at Oak Hill. Yes, I know it will be a battle in Norm's House but I think they will be ready to play.
I was impressed by Oak Hill's Freshmen's play, they shoot the ball really well, but watching them be degraded by their coach when he pulled them off the floor each time just may break down their confidence, they seemed very nervous when they came to the bench (but that's another subject).
Though I don't really care for Norm's kind of play (a hundred passes per possession) it does seem to work for them. Everyone knows Norm plays a snail's pace game so you should be ready for a boring game on his side of the ball. The Falcon's will need to change the game plan next game and make Oak Hill play to our pace.

Glad to see the Falcon's come away with the win in this game and looking forward to a great game on Friday at Valley. :aaaaa26

Forgot to comment on this. One thing I've noticed at Minford is when Minford wins, it's a great TEAM win (players and coaches); when they lose or fall short, it's on the players. Heard it for years after games. Being a great coach also involves sometimes (when it applies) taking the responsibility as well. I love to listen to Coach Tom Izzo from Michigan State following a win or LOSS. He absolutely ALWAYS mans up and takes responsibility as a coach, usually saying "I need to do a better job of coaching". This goes for all Minford sports and the ideology in general. Everyone involved with the team should be looking to improve. I'm not trying to attack your statement but I'd wager a guess that Oak Hill's players are just as much fans of Ohio State and also stayed up late. On top of that, they had the long bus ride to Minford. So, I have a hard time pointing the finger at Minford's boys for not getting their rest! Win as a TEAM, win ugly as a team, lose as a TEAM. On the other hand, I totally agree with your assessment of how Coach Persin's kids are treated and his behavior in general.....cannot say it enough! But also will say again as I guess I've never looked at the other side of that coin. Minford kids can frequently be seen having fun with Coach Shoemaker and staff and that means a ton! Maybe ultimately more that W's! Well done on that gentlemen! Don't ever take anything this poster says personally. SEOP is just a great outlet so some of us can wind down and go to sleep. Hope this poster never says anything that is taken for more than its intended purpose.......to see Minford get better and serve up some food for thought that hopefully doesn't cause everyone indigestion!!!

[osu]

Watched video of foul at end of game that costs oaks.should have been 3 foul shots if not a technical.In the act of shooting .Minford player grab the arms without touching the bal. Hate seeing the refs take one frim the young oaks.

[wobycat]

Good grief. The oaks weren't hosed by the refs. Just because a foul was not called does not mean the refs were trying to sabatoge the game. Oaks should have made more shots. End of story.

[osu]

Don't know how well u can read. Didnt say they intentionally didn't make the call, but it was a game changer. If that call is made the kids a 90% foul shooter.I'd say the odds are in are favor. In fact they only needed one more shot to beat a D-2 school with three freshmen on the floor most of the time with there two senior guards.It will only help the oaks come tourney time.I root for all the (soc) teams when tournament starts.Just wandering how well MInford will compete in D-2 when tourney starts.

[wobycat]

Yes you did. "Hate to see the refs take this one away from the young oaks" which implies they had it and it was taken away.
It does look like ole norm put a template out there for teams to look at on how to play the falcons.

[osu]

No I didn't. Didnt say it was intentional.But they did, by being poor refs.