Southeastern Ohio Sports Message Board
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Especially in comparison to the Girls numbers. The D2 bottom cut line on girls is 199 compared to 211, it really should never be that different.mondayamqb wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:26 pm Still cannot tell division placement for some because the enrollment numbers on the OHSAA site are base (EMIS) numbers and do not indicate the competitive balance additions to each school.
The large jump should tell you how much boys basketball has been affected by open enrollment and transfers.
I was actually looking at what things would look like in our area if a 5th division was added for that reason. Initially, I went with the top 80 schools for D1 since in football, it was he too 72 teams out of around 720 and basketball has around 800, but I found that some district areas would be too far spread apart, even for 5-team districts, but with the top 96 schools, it was a much better, and there could be 16 districts of 6 teams. Then around 176 teams for D2-D5 each with 16 districts of 11 teams give or take. The cutoff between D1 and D2 in the 5 division setup before competitive balance was 512 this upcoming year. I also found it quite interesting how a lot of our divisions would look like in our area and could even result in some more conference realignment or division realignment within conferences (Note: enrollment figures used are for this year, but are before competitive balance is calculated).Truth&fiction wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:06 pm The break down looks good for D2 thru D 4 . As competitive balance for D1 you could be at 363 and would have the possibility of a Mason with a number like 1350 going head to head in tournament . Now that is an injustice and is not fair to the lower end of D1. The balance they are looking at is 199 in D1,200 in D2 , 200 IN D3 and 200 in D4. Their balance is a total of 799 teams and that number is then divided. When will they look at adding a division like Football and truly have balance ?
Had this conversation earlier today...hope some schools did their homework before their offseason additions*bbjunky81 wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:21 pm Competitive balance will hurt some schools! Remember, coming after 7th grade and living out of district is +5.
I'm glad someone else feels this way . There's around 75 schools with the enrollment numbers 550 and above . With a slight movement this could work for a 5 div. Does this make sense? What is the down side? Looks like a lot of up side to me . If I was a n AD or Supt. with my school on the low end of D1 I would be knocking on the States Door to get a real competitive Balance . Thanks trojandave always enjoy your input!trojandave wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:11 am Looks like Fairland and Wheelersburg, two schools that were previously thought to be very close to D2 for basketball, will remain D3. Also, I agree with Truth&Fiction that D1 is structured unfairly because of the huge discrepancy in enrollment. I just don't agree that each division has to have the same number of teams. There really should be 5 divisions in basketball, dividing up D1 into two divisions.......and I have long been an advocate for no more than 4 divisions......but I have changed my mindset on that issue.
I coached at a very low end D1 in baseball and we had to play Mason in the tournament...yeah, totally unfair playing field overall.Truth&fiction wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:38 pmI'm glad someone else feels this way . There's around 75 schools with the enrollment numbers 550 and above . With a slight movement this could work for a 5 div. Does this make sense? What is the down side? Looks like a lot of up side to me . If I was a n AD or Supt. with my school on the low end of D1 I would be knocking on the States Door to get a real competitive Balance . Thanks trojandave always enjoy your input!trojandave wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:11 am Looks like Fairland and Wheelersburg, two schools that were previously thought to be very close to D2 for basketball, will remain D3. Also, I agree with Truth&Fiction that D1 is structured unfairly because of the huge discrepancy in enrollment. I just don't agree that each division has to have the same number of teams. There really should be 5 divisions in basketball, dividing up D1 into two divisions.......and I have long been an advocate for no more than 4 divisions......but I have changed my mindset on that issue.
I think Basketball (Boys and Girls), Baseball/Softball, and Volleyball all eventually should go up to 5 divisions. Take the top 12% in terms of enrollment (96 schools) and there's D1; would've done the top 10% like football (80 schools in the sports listed above), but since everyone already qualifies the tournament in all these sports unlike football and the top 96 schools creates better districts than 80 schools, especially Northwest region of Ohio, I went with the top 12%. As for D2-D5, they are split as evenly possible around 22% for each division or around 176 schools, which I feel can make the field even more fair, or 16 districts of 11 schools for each division.danicalifornia wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:52 pmI coached at a very low end D1 in baseball and we had to play Mason in the tournament...yeah, totally unfair playing field overall.Truth&fiction wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:38 pmI'm glad someone else feels this way . There's around 75 schools with the enrollment numbers 550 and above . With a slight movement this could work for a 5 div. Does this make sense? What is the down side? Looks like a lot of up side to me . If I was a n AD or Supt. with my school on the low end of D1 I would be knocking on the States Door to get a real competitive Balance . Thanks trojandave always enjoy your input!trojandave wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:11 am Looks like Fairland and Wheelersburg, two schools that were previously thought to be very close to D2 for basketball, will remain D3. Also, I agree with Truth&Fiction that D1 is structured unfairly because of the huge discrepancy in enrollment. I just don't agree that each division has to have the same number of teams. There really should be 5 divisions in basketball, dividing up D1 into two divisions.......and I have long been an advocate for no more than 4 divisions......but I have changed my mindset on that issue.
I feel like a 5th division for basketball and baseball would even up the playing field greatly. Heck, they don't even need to have completely even divisions school wise to make it a more even playing field. Just don't do what Nevada does where they shift which half of the state gets more teams to the state tournament based on where the finals are located, that's a terrible idea haha
I have seen that too but since this was a Basketball Forum I did not mention Track , but you are correct . When you have 2 to 4 times the athletes that is not competitive Balance no matter what sport we are talking about. The State needs to get this done ! Surely they can see this .jumphigh wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:16 am If you really want to see an injustice to the students look at track and field. There are only 3 division but there are 3 divisions yet there are 800 schools that scored a point or more at the district level. That means the big d1 schools have 4 times the athletes to choose from as the small schools.
It just does not seem competitive, balanced or fair
they might see it but do they really care.Truth&fiction wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:55 amI have seen that too but since this was a Basketball Forum I did not mention Track , but you are correct . When you have 2 to 4 times the athletes that is not competitive Balance no matter what sport we are talking about. The State needs to get this done ! Surely they can see this .jumphigh wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:16 am If you really want to see an injustice to the students look at track and field. There are only 3 division but there are 3 divisions yet there are 800 schools that scored a point or more at the district level. That means the big d1 schools have 4 times the athletes to choose from as the small schools.
It just does not seem competitive, balanced or fair