Zane Trace's Defense

Esully63
Freshman Team
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by Esully63 »

Out of Bounds wrote:It's obvious Maurice Minnifield you have a dog in this fight. You created a user name just for this topic. But either way, the fault starts with the player. No matter how rough the officials let the game get, at what point does a player justify sucker punching another player or person? Secondly, I don't know how rough the officials let the game get, but to call a double foul is ridiculous! I don't condone the parent coming on the floor and I can say he was probably even more furious when it was called a double foul and no penalty was given to the player. If my daughter was slugged and the player was ejected as they should have been, and I saw my daughter was ok, it would be a lot easier to stay off the floor. If someone took a free shot at my daughter and she gets punished with a foul and no other repercussions were taken, my voice would have been heard! And last but not least, if I was a coach and my player pulled a stunt like that, she would not have seen the floor for the rest of the night at a minimum. Lessons have to be taught, not just winning and losing, and that would have been a good opportunity to teach a lesson. I've watched really good coaches, Rob Beaucler (Eastern Brown Boys Varsity) Ryan Davis (Chesapeake Boys Varsity) Tom Barrick (Wheelersburg Boys Varsity) do this exact same thing. Throw an elbow, spike a ball, cuss and official, they all yanked players and sat them the rest of the game. That is called discipline and how a coach (good coach) runs a program!!

You said it all!


BlueDuck
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by BlueDuck »

Esully63 wrote:
Out of Bounds wrote:It's obvious Maurice Minnifield you have a dog in this fight. You created a user name just for this topic. But either way, the fault starts with the player. No matter how rough the officials let the game get, at what point does a player justify sucker punching another player or person? Secondly, I don't know how rough the officials let the game get, but to call a double foul is ridiculous! I don't condone the parent coming on the floor and I can say he was probably even more furious when it was called a double foul and no penalty was given to the player. If my daughter was slugged and the player was ejected as they should have been, and I saw my daughter was ok, it would be a lot easier to stay off the floor. If someone took a free shot at my daughter and she gets punished with a foul and no other repercussions were taken, my voice would have been heard! And last but not least, if I was a coach and my player pulled a stunt like that, she would not have seen the floor for the rest of the night at a minimum. Lessons have to be taught, not just winning and losing, and that would have been a good opportunity to teach a lesson. I've watched really good coaches, Rob Beaucler (Eastern Brown Boys Varsity) Ryan Davis (Chesapeake Boys Varsity) Tom Barrick (Wheelersburg Boys Varsity) do this exact same thing. Throw an elbow, spike a ball, cuss and official, they all yanked players and sat them the rest of the game. That is called discipline and how a coach (good coach) runs a program!!

You said it all!
It's my understanding that ZT's coach did not see the punch, and their version of the tape does not show it. After the Piketon tape revealed a punch, the situation was dealt with.

It sounds as if you have a dog in the fight too, as the Piketon score keep was removed from scorer's table for making threats at the ZT coach, and you are refusing to acknowledge this.


Out of Bounds
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by Out of Bounds »

I won't refuse to acknowledge this, I saw the tape personally and talk to the man. He told me what he said to the coach and what was said to him by the official and the coach. I believe I said I don't condone it. I also understand the reaction, and people react in different ways when they're kids are involved. The whole incident is unfortunate and I would like to believe everyone wished it had not happened. But it did. I do have one question though. I have officiated varsity games both boys and girls and I'm trying to figure out, if what the gentlemen did and said on the floor was so bad, why wasn't he removed from the game and gym? I'll tell you why.....the ref knew he blew it!!! But this whole issue isn't about the parent in my opinion. It's about a girl that lost her cool and punched another girl in the face and the official blowing the call and the coach not handling it properly.

One other question....who does Zane Trace play the next two games they are sitting the player in question? By rule if handled correctly, it would be the next two immediate games. I'm wondering if they are playing a couple of softer teams and sitting her now because it's convenient?


BlueDuck
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by BlueDuck »

I believe the tape arrived and was viewed only yesterday. A suspension before seeing it would make no sense.

As a former official, did you ever blow a call? As a ref, if it becomes obvious that two players are getting heated, do you not pull them aside and warn them to stop? I think we would both agree the answer to both questions is yes.

If ZT suspends their player now after seeing video evidence, I dont know what else people want. I started my account today because people are beating a dead horse. The thread topic is Zane Trace's defense. They do play good defense. Out of Bounds sidetracked the thread over a week ago.


Out of Bounds
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by Out of Bounds »

Yes on blown calls, never one of that magnitude and yes to talking to players and also to coaches and coaches have even sat kids a short period to cool them down.

It amazes me it took two weeks, I'm not doubting you or calling you a liar, I saw it the next day and I'm surprised someone hasn't posted it on YouTube by now. But if that's what it is, then that's what it is.


BlueDuck
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by BlueDuck »

Out of Bounds wrote:Yes on blown calls, never one of that magnitude and yes to talking to players and also to coaches and coaches have even sat kids a short period to cool them down.

It amazes me it took two weeks, I'm not doubting you or calling you a liar, I saw it the next day and I'm surprised someone hasn't posted it on YouTube by now. But if that's what it is, then that's what it is.
We've found some common ground here then. As for next weeks game, I think it will be very close the whole game.


Xtoxxviii
All State
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by Xtoxxviii »

Bring on The U tube


svcSHOCK
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by svcSHOCK »

Maurice Minnifield. Your post does not make sense to me.. So your saying the refs were in the wrong & should have stopped it. kinda true..so that also means that if there is a fight at school it is the teachers fault?? & if there is a fight on the job site it is the bosses fault?? no, people have to take responsibility for their actions. & yes the girl is in high school but she is a senior that will be playing college ball next year. I do not think Coach Robin Hagen-Smith would tolerate that kind of stuff on her court. I just feel that it should be a lesson learned. If she takes responsibility and apologizes it would be fine. Everyone does make mistakes. We're only human. But to grow from our mistakes we have to admit them & take responsibility for them & i hope that this is what happens.


Esully63
Freshman Team
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by Esully63 »

svcSHOCK wrote:Maurice Minnifield. Your post does not make sense to me.. So your saying the refs were in the wrong & should have stopped it. kinda true..so that also means that if there is a fight at school it is the teachers fault?? & if there is a fight on the job site it is the bosses fault?? no, people have to take responsibility for their actions. & yes the girl is in high school but she is a senior that will be playing college ball next year. I do not think Coach Robin Hagen-Smith would tolerate that kind of stuff on her court. I just feel that it should be a lesson learned. If she takes responsibility and apologizes it would be fine. Everyone does make mistakes. We're only human. But to grow from our mistakes we have to admit them & take responsibility for them & i hope that this is what happens.
I agree the girl must take the responsibility for her actions. However, the analogy between the situation happenimg at work or in school is stretching it a bit. Your boss or teachers at school are there to educate and direct. They are not there to watch your every move all day long. This situation is more like that of a prison guard and inmate. The official is there to watch you and enforce the rules and if he allows things to escalate by way of non-calls or not warning players about miss conduct then they too have to share in the responsibilty for what has happened. I can not say the official allowed this because I have not seen the tape, but I can say he completely and utterly botched the call and is completely responsible for what happened after the punch.


BlueDuck
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by BlueDuck »

Esully63 wrote:
svcSHOCK wrote:Maurice Minnifield. Your post does not make sense to me.. So your saying the refs were in the wrong & should have stopped it. kinda true..so that also means that if there is a fight at school it is the teachers fault?? & if there is a fight on the job site it is the bosses fault?? no, people have to take responsibility for their actions. & yes the girl is in high school but she is a senior that will be playing college ball next year. I do not think Coach Robin Hagen-Smith would tolerate that kind of stuff on her court. I just feel that it should be a lesson learned. If she takes responsibility and apologizes it would be fine. Everyone does make mistakes. We're only human. But to grow from our mistakes we have to admit them & take responsibility for them & i hope that this is what happens.
I agree the girl must take the responsibility for her actions. However, the analogy between the situation happenimg at work or in school is stretching it a bit. Your boss or teachers at school are there to educate and direct. They are not there to watch your every move all day long. This situation is more like that of a prison guard and inmate. The official is there to watch you and enforce the rules and if he allows things to escalate by way of non-calls or not warning players about miss conduct then they too have to share in the responsibilty for what has happened. I can not say the official allowed this because I have not seen the tape, but I can say he completely and utterly botched the call and is completely responsible for what happened after the punch.
Nice point ESully. I agree.


blockcharge
Freshman Team
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by blockcharge »

First I wasn't at the game. Just a couple of comments, if the ref would have called a flagrant foul it is an automatic ejection. If the situation occured as stated the offending player should have been ejected, no matter what happened. Also for Dad to be on the floor, if he is there to check on his daughter no problem, but when he starts on the coach or the ref he is gone.
Again to be 100% sure i would have to had been there, but it sounds like the ref didn't handle the situation correctly.


svcSHOCK
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by svcSHOCK »

Yea you are right..good point.

Yeah the ref should have handled the situation after the fact. But there was nothing for him to do before it happened because there was no sign of unsportsmanlike conduct. Just solid defense from the piketon player.

& if you were at the game, as i was, you would have seen that the father got up off the table to go see if his daughter was okay & the ZT coach yelled at him to sit down. The father did not even make it on the court & all the refs came over to the table & were talking about the situation amongst themselves. idk where you are getting the idea that the score keeper went crazy & threatened the ref or coach?? If you were at the game you would have saw he was just being a concerned parent as any person would because they just left the injured player on the middle of the court holding her jaw with her head between her knees & not one ref checked on her or stopped the game.


blockcharge
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by blockcharge »

If your talking about my post maybe i need to make it clear, I didn't mean to say dad did start on the coach or ref, i meant to say if he did. If coach yelled at dad then that should be dealt with also. Agreed we can't really prevent any situation from happening only penalize the action. Coach and/or trained should be called on the court first to check on his/her player and if needed then the parents. On my crew the closest ref would have been standing with the injured player talking to her to see if she wanted to come out and using the way she responded to decide if we should get her taken out for fear of a worse injury. Again I'm just going on the previous posts i wasn't there.


Binary
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by Binary »

svcSHOCK wrote:Yea you are right..good point.

Yeah the ref should have handled the situation after the fact. But there was nothing for him to do before it happened because there was no sign of unsportsmanlike conduct. Just solid defense from the piketon player.

& if you were at the game, as i was, you would have seen that the father got up off the table to go see if his daughter was okay & the ZT coach yelled at him to sit down. The father did not even make it on the court & all the refs came over to the table & were talking about the situation amongst themselves. idk where you are getting the idea that the score keeper went crazy & threatened the ref or coach?? If you were at the game you would have saw he was just being a concerned parent as any person would because they just left the injured player on the middle of the court holding her jaw with her head between her knees & not one ref checked on her or stopped the game.
Wow! So the refs came over to the table but didn't stop the game? What a mess. So did anyone score while the refs were all at the table and the game was still going on?


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footballfanatic1
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by footballfanatic1 »

wow...


svcSHOCK
Waterboy
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Re: Zane Trace's Defense

Post by svcSHOCK »

The game was stopped but no one check on the girl besides her coach & her father tried.

It was just a horrible situation that needs to be dealt with fairly.


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