HERE THEY COME: YOUNGSTOWN URSULINE

[eagles73Taylor]

Poverty and the effects on kids in academics and athletics is a simple question? LOL You dealt with absolutes stating that I was proposing that all kids in poverty are bad students and bad in sports! I never said ALL. Nice try though~!

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

thank you eagles73.

[Mercerville Monster]

whatever.---------recruiting and public, should not be used in the same sentence.

Was you serious when you made this comment YTB? Do you honestly think that no public schools in the state of Ohio recruit? I could name three off the top of my head that I would bet anything on that they do.

[WitnessProtection]

Poverty and the effects on kids in academics and athletics is a simple question? LOL You dealt with absolutes stating that I was proposing that all kids in poverty are bad students and bad in sports! I never said ALL. Nice try though~!

I asked a question and you provided clarification for me. You read too much into my question. Thanks for the clarification.

[eagles73Taylor]

No problem, a little gunshy! lol I spend a little time on ohio chatter, the offshoot of the huddle and they rip to shreds over there! Thanks

[Crab's Brother]

No problem, a little gunshy! lol I spend a little time on ohio chatter, the offshoot of the huddle and they rip to shreds over there! Thanks

Big fan of that site....

[WitnessProtection]

No problem, a little gunshy! lol I spend a little time on ohio chatter, the offshoot of the huddle and they rip to shreds over there! Thanks

A little "light" reading for you, although I dare say you have probably already seen this. HB 136 -- Parental Choice and Taxpayer Savings Scholarship Program ("PACT")

http://www.lsc.state.oh.us/analyses129/h0136-rh-129.pdf

[maniac66]

I don't see why private schools can't limit it's enrollment I mean they are allowed to limit class room sizes correct.
There for they could limit what size school they choose to be.

[Chieftain]

Two stories for you--

Cardinal Mooney makes great complaint that their kids come thru the "system" at parochial schools and for the most part thats true. However, an area QB of great ability played at Campbell Memorial ( Mooney area school) and "transfered" his senior year where he won a scholly to Iowa. The family was poor as church mice but his tution got "paid" somehow. He paid Mooney being arrested for rape at Iowa. Ah, yes those good "catholic" boys.I personally know several businessmen who provide "jobs" for kids so they can "earn" their tuition money to Mooney, being the good Mooney grads they are.

Ursuline has for DECADES held a bigtime fund raiser for "scholarships". The MC of the dinner program for years was Ursuline grad and ESPN announcer Paul McGuire. These dinners net 10s of thousands of $$$$$$$$$$. These "scholarships" are intended to help worthy "students" get into Ursuline. Major employers and wealthy businessmen contribute heavily to this "fund". Strangely, it seems that mostly poor, black kids who are athletes get these "student" schollies. Ursuline also has the largest group of inner city athletes attending school on "state vouchers" in the area. Rare to find a kid who isn't an athlete who gets one. Odd, I know.

[coop]

Two stories for you--

Cardinal Mooney makes great complaint that their kids come thru the "system" at parochial schools and for the most part thats true. However, an area QB of great ability played at Campbell Memorial ( Mooney area school) and "transfered" his senior year where he won a scholly to Iowa. The family was poor as church mice but his tution got "paid" somehow. He paid Mooney being arrested for rape at Iowa. Ah, yes those good "catholic" boys.I personally know several businessmen who provide "jobs" for kids so they can "earn" their tuition money to Mooney, being the good Mooney grads they are.

Ursuline has for DECADES held a bigtime fund raiser for "scholarships". The MC of the dinner program for years was Ursuline grad and ESPN announcer Paul McGuire. These dinners net 10s of thousands of $$$$$$$$$$. These "scholarships" are intended to help worthy "students" get into Ursuline. Major employers and wealthy businessmen contribute heavily to this "fund". Strangely, it seems that mostly poor, black kids who are athletes get these "student" schollies. Ursuline also has the largest group of inner city athletes attending school on "state vouchers" in the area. Rare to find a kid who isn't an athlete who gets one. Odd, I know.

Wow, very interesting.

[eagles73Taylor]

[quote="maniac66"]I don't see why private schools can't limit it's enrollment I mean they are allowed to limit class room sizes correct.
There for they could limit what size school they choose to be.[/quote]

They can when it pertains to just academics, the smaller the class size the better. However, when it comes to athletics they try to get schools of similar size matched up. Now, I will always say that private and parochials maintain limited enrollment, but not on purpose. Its just a by product of their system. A good one mind you, but not what they intend. They would want the money of all of these kids, however they wouldnt deal with them very long.

[madpolecat]

Some day, I want some bored soul to do a correlation study between 10-year winning percentages and the population densities in Ohio schools D-IV and smaller...

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

finally this is getting the public attention it needs.

[maniac66]

I agree to a extent Eagles73 But I think it isn't so much the schools but also the Alumni that helps choose the level of play why move to a Div. and compete with the higher powers there Div. 3 is one of the toughest in the state I can see them going to 4 maybe but sometimes a big fish in a small pond is better than a small fish in a big pond.
And this is the case they can go 5-5 every year make state and prob. steam roll all the other teams in that Div.
And still get their players on scholarships and have bragging rights to boot.
Sad yes but a big possibility

[eagles73Taylor]

Most private and parochials maniac do not have physical geographical boundaries like a public. Maybe Cincy still has diosceses sp. where they start in the feeder school of that private and stay, but almost every private/parochial can draw from anywhere just like open enrollment. The difference is 4 kids live in Town A, town A has 2 schools public B and private C. There are 20,000 people in town A. Public school B is a DIV III school, Private C is D V.

These 4 kids in 8th grade want to apply to Private C, Kid 1 is an above average student, no discipline problems and good athlete whose parents can afford the tuition. Kid 2 is an average students, some discipline problems good athlete whose parents cannot afford tuition. Kid 3 is a below average student, quite a few discipline issues fighting, drugs etc. but is a good athlete whose parents can afford tuition. Kid 4 is a below average student, suspended and expelled during his school years for fighting and skipping school and other violations. Parents cannot afford tuition.

Now, all 4 apply with no vouchers, HB 136 not in play and the public school isnt failing. What kids make it to Private C?

Kid 1, 2, and 3. 4 stays in the public. So, the public has to accept kid 4, its the law, the private doesnt. So tuition and not accepting troubled kids keeps their numbers lower. You would split the talent between these two schools but since Private C plays down 2 divisions their chances of being successful at the state level increase exponentially! lol

[eagles73Taylor]

There is only 1 public school in Youngstown which even offers football! This city and surrounding areas have around 100,000 people, but Mooney and Ursuline stay low in numbers. You would think there doors would be overflowing with kids trying to get in to play sports! Why arent they?

[WitnessProtection]

Speculation: The route to a D5 or D6 state title is possibly a little easier than having to face St. Ed's, St. Ig, St. X, or Moeller, at some point. Given this, perhaps the admins at Mooney and Ursuline choose the path of a little less resistance.
Just a thought.

Greetings, KarlAgathon! My brother!

[selonmc]

Who cares if they are public or private, loaded or not loaded, or giving out vouchers or recruiting? I personally enjoy watching them and the talent they have. I watched them absolutely annihilate Coldwater last year in Canton and enjoyed every minute of it. Why? Because I am a sadist.

There fixed that for you.

Watching a top NFL team beat up on another NFL team... or even college beating college is one thing. At the high school level you shouldn't enjoy watching that happen to 17 year olds. Basically you would get off on D1 schools playing bad D6 schools. There's something wrong with you dude. Nobody should enjoy watching Lakewood St. Ed's play Corning Miller.

When Delphos was up 60 Shadysides fans were cheering as if they were only down 7.

Really? I was there and I saw half their fans leave at halftime, and 75% gone long before the score got to 60. Nobody was cheering. I've seen more talking at a funeral.

And it's not like public schools don't beat private schools. Coldwater done it to Mooney a few years back

Ah yes. The game the sadists hang their hat on... Coldwater v. Mooney. Yes a MAC school pulled off an upset. But there's a reason why they made the movie "Hoosiers." Because it doesn't happen very often

[selonmc]

You sadists aren't getting the point. No Ursuline isn't full of football players. There's plenty of "geeks" in Ursuline. All you need is less than a dozen of your 400 students to be college football material in order to absolutely globe trot through the D5 playoffs. Out of an area of 100,000 they just need to find about a half a dozen that are heads and shoulders above the rest at the jr high level. If they are good at picking talent maybe 2 or 3 pan out to be college prospects, and you are dam right Ursuline is pretty good and finding talent. The have their feelers all over the jr high scene around Mahoning County.

[Chieftain]

I believe the census showed that Mahoning County, where Youngstown is, has 238,000 people. Nearby Trumbull County, where I live, has 210,000 people. The Metro area, as recognized by Fed stats has a Metro population of 600K-700K includes 100K+ Columbianna County and 100K+ in Mercer County in Pa. "Students" have come from all these areas to attend parochial schools. Warren and Northern Trumbull County feed Warren JFK, a D-VI parochial.

Also of note -- most parochials in the Youngstown diocese only offer college prep. No general studies, no special ed classes, no handicapped, no learning disabilities, etc. That can and does limit staffing. Since there are Parochial school unions, they must watch how big the staff is so they can still afford to pay salaries, benefits and a limited expenses. They have no facilites , other than gyms as they play home games at YSU for football, use park ball diamonds and have no home track fields. Lots of boosters tap the major employers and wealthy businessmen for support. All parishes are asked to contribute a % of the Sunday collections. Bingo, of course, is a staple . Now, in addition to "scholarships" raised, state vouchers are now part of the money trail. The schools remain selective on who can be admitted as they must count $$$$$$$$ in projecting staff needs & expenses. Many catholic grade schools have been closed because of declining enrollment and rising expenses.

It is still a fact that most parochials here "attract" the best athlete from 6-10 area cities each. Thus, each "team" has not only the best athletes from Youngstown, but also an additional 6-10 cities each. That makes it problematic for area teams who has players only from one town to compete. With the exception of Warren Harding, most area schools won't play them. Boardman, D-I was an exception these past 2 years, having their best material in years.They just won the Federal League with Co-Champ Canton McKinley. They lost both games to Mooney.