Week 8: Athens (7-0) vs Alexander (6-1)

[gridironguy]

Alexander center going down was a big blow to them he is big and gets to 2nd and 3rd level quick very good lineman. Is he playing this week? Athens by 2 tds if they aren't ready

[maniac66]

So may I ask if Alexander pulls this out will it be called a upset or id Athens wins will it be called a should have been win?
These are two very different size teams from Div.3 and Div5 .
In all Honesty should be a Athens win by size alone.
One Div apart I can see it being called a big game but 2 Div is a big difference just a question no hate on either team.

[Nybucks70-80]

Yea, I don't see that happening BIGHITSINC ... I know Coach Adams had a chance to score in the fourth quarter versus Meigs when the score was 56-9 but didn't ... His JV team was already in the game pretty much the entire 4th quarter - and after driving down into the red zone with about 3:00 left - he instructed the QB to take four straight knee-downs as opposed to scoring again ... I was in the stands and there were a few folks actually confused by Adams' decision, they wanted their young kids to get into the endzone in a varsity game on a Friday night ... I of course corrected them and reminded them that Meigs is in our league and eventually 'what comes around - goes around.' ... Not sure if they agreed with me or not - but I still think it was a classy move by the Athens coach.

Class , Something coach Arno knows very little about!

[93Bulldog]

So may I ask if Alexander pulls this out will it be called a upset or id Athens wins will it be called a should have been win?
These are two very different size teams from Div.3 and Div5 .
In all Honesty should be a Athens win by size alone.
One Div apart I can see it being called a big game but 2 Div is a big difference just a question no hate on either team.

So I guess Nelsonville-York (D5) should have been crushed by Loagn (D2)?

Nelsonville-York 42, Logan 6

Size of school means nothing in my book ... Give me a team like Ironton (D4) over a Marietta (D2) any day of the week ... That is just one example, there are many.

[Steely Dan]

Going to be a wet, sloppy track tomorrow, with cool, windy, weather. Field conditions are going to definitely come into play. Should be an interesting game.

[A-Town Big Dog]

Going to be a wet, sloppy track tomorrow, with cool, windy, weather. Field conditions are going to definitely come into play. Should be an interesting game.

Our field will be anything but sloppy, wet maybe but the turf won't allow field conditions to come into play.

[A-Town Big Dog]

So may I ask if Alexander pulls this out will it be called a upset or id Athens wins will it be called a should have been win?
These are two very different size teams from Div.3 and Div5 .
In all Honesty should be a Athens win by size alone.
One Div apart I can see it being called a big game but 2 Div is a big difference just a question no hate on either team.

Alexander is only a D5 by 1 kid, they are on the max number allowed in D5 exactly.

[Heavy D]

So may I ask if Alexander pulls this out will it be called a upset or id Athens wins will it be called a should have been win?
These are two very different size teams from Div.3 and Div5 .
In all Honesty should be a Athens win by size alone.
One Div apart I can see it being called a big game but 2 Div is a big difference just a question no hate on either team.

So I guess Nelsonville-York (D5) should have been crushed by Loagn (D2)?

Nelsonville-York 42, Logan 6

Size of school means nothing in my book ... Give me a team like Ironton (D4) over a Marietta (D2) any day of the week ... That is just one example, there are many.

Yes and give me a D5 Nelsonville over a D3 Athens any day. Yes you are right, size of school means nothing. Just go to the state championship games and see how equal the D6 teams are to the D3, D2 and D1's are. Someone needs to contact the OHSAA and tell them to do away with those danged useless divisions.

[A-Town Big Dog]

I'd take a D6 Maria Stein Marion Local over 90% of D4 schools or a D4 Dayton CJ over 90% of the D2 schools or even a D3 Youngstown Cardinal Mooney over the vast majority of D1 schools. Does school size matter? Yes in several situations it does but it isn't the ultimate factor in every case. While I fully understand that your odds of having good players goes up with the number of kids you have to pick from, you can still only put 11 on the field at a time and if a smaller school has a better 11 than you on the field then it doesn't really matter how many kids are dressed watching on the sidelines.

[Heavy D]

I'd take a D6 Maria Stein Marion Local over 90% of D4 schools or a D4 Dayton CJ over 90% of the D2 schools or even a D3 Youngstown Cardinal Mooney over the vast majority of D1 schools. Does school size matter? Yes in several situations it does but it isn't the ultimate factor in every case. While I fully understand that your odds of having good players goes up with the number of kids you have to pick from, you can still only put 11 on the field at a time and if a smaller school has a better 11 than you on the field then it doesn't really matter how many kids are dressed watching on the sidelines.

Having more than 11 good players matters a lot. Usually the smaller schools have less good players than the bigger ones. They may have 11 that are close, or even a little better. But the bigger schools usually have more players who can play. If they don't the coach needs to get more kids interested and coming out. Those teams you mentioned above, those are some to the best in the state in their respective divisions. Put them against the best D1 schools in the state and see how the game comes out. Not to mention two of the three you mentioned are catholic schools.

[93Bulldog]

At the state level; things are for sure going to be different when you have a collection of the best teams in the state ... But here in Southeastern Ohio - I don't think size means much.

Pick the winners:

Trimble (D6) vs Meigs (D4)
Ironton (D4) vs Marietta (D2)
Nelsonville-York (D5) vs Logan (D2) ... Well, that game was already 42-6
Wahama (D5) vs Vinton County (D3)
Portsmouth West (D5) vs Chillicothe (D2)
Valley (D5) vs Gallipolis (D3)
Wheelersburg (D5) vs Warren (D2)

I'm taking the smaller school in every one of those games: and its a (2 division) difference in all of them ... some are even a 3 division difference.

[Heavy D]

At the state level; things are for sure going to be different when you have a collection of the best teams in the state ... But here in Southeastern Ohio - I don't think size means much.

Pick the winners:

Trimble (D6) vs Meigs (D4)
Ironton (D4) vs Marietta (D2)
Nelsonville-York (D5) vs Logan (D2) ... Well, that game was already 42-6
Wahama (D5) vs Vinton County (D3)
Portsmouth West (D5) vs Chillicothe (D2)
Valley (D5) vs Gallipolis (D3)
Wheelersburg (D5) vs Warren (D2)

I'm taking the smaller school in every one of those games: and its a (2 division) difference in all of them ... some are even a 3 division difference.

I would not pick the smaller school in all of those, but there are always exceptions. And quite frankly the smaller schools that would win those games have better coaching, and better programs for the most part than the larger ones. Switch the coaches and in a short time the larger schools would dominate IMO. When Amyx was at Logan you would not have picked Nelsonville to beat them very often. Put Luts at Marietta for 30+ years and he would dominate Ironton. Size of school can matter if you have the right coaching, and you have a program that is solid. If not, then you are correct. Bad coaching can usually get a bigger school beaten by a smaller school. And I am not just talking about game time coaching. It is the whole program that matters. With all other things being equal the bigger school will win most of the time. That is why we have divisions.

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

If anyone is willing to text me updates on this one here is my number

740-644-5055

Thanks

[93Bulldog]

You made a perfect point Heavy D ... "Better coaching; better programs makes the difference."

School size is like last on my list in terms of why one team 'should' beat another ... How many quality players you have in a given year is important (Wahama is a very small school and they have a bunch this year; Marietta is a fairly big school and they don't have many at all) ... Who your coach is, how well your program is being run, etc..etc... they all make a difference.

How many BOYS ARE ACTUALLY IN YOUR SCHOOL doesn't make much difference at all ... You can have 1,000 boys, a huge enrollment, but if they don't want to play football and their isn't much intrest - then your probably not going to have a very good football team ... I know we handled Parkersburg South last year - and their a huge school like that with big enrollment figures - but it didn't matter once their 40 or so players hit the field and our 40 or so players hit the field.

[questionmark]

BIGHITSINC -- I disagree with your 'Big Fish/Small Pond Analogy'

Look at the Top 3 Schools in the Ohio (By Records)
Athens – DIII – (7-0)
Nelsonville-York – DV-- (7-0)
Alexander – DV – (6-1)

Athens Schedule –
DII – (2-0) DIII – (2-0) DIV – (2-0) DV – (1-0)
Remaining Schedule DV (Alex – 6-1) DIV (Well – 4-3) DV (NY – 7-0)
Athens is (2-0) vs. 1 Division Higher
Athens is (2-0) vs. Even Division
Athens is (2-0) vs. 1 Division Lower
Athens is (1-0) vs. 2 Division Lower

Nelsonville-York
DII – (1-0) DIII – (0-0) DIV – (3-0) DV – (1-0) DVI – (2-0)
Remaining Schedule DIII (VC – 1-6) DV (Alex – 6-1) DIII (Ath – 7-0)
NY is (1-0) vs. 3 Division Higher
NY is (3-0) vs. 1 Division Higher
NY is (1-0) vs. Even Division
NY is (2-0) vs. 1 Division Lower

Alexander
DII – (0-0) DIII – (1-0) DIV – (1-1) DV – (1-0) DVI – (3-0)
Remaining Schedule DIII (Ath – 7-0) DV (NY – 7-0) DIV (Meigs – 4-3)
ALX is (1-0) vs. 2 Division Higher
ALX is (1-1) vs. 1 Division Higher
ALX is (1-0) vs. Even Division)
ALX is (3-0) vs. 1 Division Lower)

TEAMS--SCHEDULE OPPONENTS--DIVISION--RECORD
ATHENS – DIII – (35-34)-------------NELSONVILLE-YORK - DV -(34-35)---------ALEXANDER - DV - (29-41)
Gallia Academy – DIII (4-3) ---------Trimble DVI– (4-2)-------------------------Eastern –DVI (2-5)
Coal Grove – DV (3-3)----------------Newark Catholic DVI – (3-4)--------------Hunington – DV(0-7)
Warren – DII (4-3)--------------------Berne Union DV– (1-6)---------------------Unioto –DVI (3-4)
Chillicothe – DII (1-6)-----------------Bishop Ready DIV– (3-4)------------------Frontier – DVI(0-7)
Waverly – DIV (1-6)-------------------Logan – DII (1-6)--------------------------River Valley – DIV(1-6)
Meigs – DIV (4-3)----------------------Wellston – DIV (4-3)----------------------Vinton County – DIII (1-6)
Vinton County – DIII (1-6)-------------Meigs – DIV (4-3)-------------------------Wellston – DIV (4-3)
Alexander – DV (6-1)------------------Vinton County – DIII (1-6)----------------Athens – DIII (7-0)
Wellston – DIV (4-3)-------------------Alexander – DV (6-1)---------------------Nelsonville-York – DV (7-0)
Nelsonville-York – DV (7-0)-----------Athens – DIII (7-0)------------------------Meigs – DIV (4-3)

Athens cannot control who they play for League Purposes, and learned from the (9-1) season finish without a Play-Off Berth. So they scheduled 2 DII's, 1 DIII, 1 DIV, and 1 DV for non-league. I'm pretty happy with Athens schedule this season. They are (4-0) against teams (1 Division Higher or Even). So playing schools the same size or bigger they have earned HALF of their victories for the season. I would not call that 'Big Fish/Small Pond' by any means...

NY did a great job as well as getting a strong mix in their non-league schedule. They have 1 DII, 1 DIV, 1 DV and 2 DVI's for non-league. They are (3-0) against teams (1-2 Division Higher or Even).

ALX will get hurt by their non-league schedule like Athens did with their (9-1) season a few years ago. They scheduled 1 DIV, 1 DV and 3 DVI's. They are (2-0) against teams (1 Division Higher or Even).

The numbers do not lie...
It is clearly easy to see that Athens has done an admirable job of playing tough against equal opponents (of Size) and by scheduling these games it will pay off for them in tough ball games and getting them into the post-season.

NY is just fine, like usual as they are a well-established program that understands the issues with scheduling quality opponents for preparing them for later successes in the season.

ALX did a fine job of beating their non-league opponents, but they have not earned much from them in terms of helping them move toward the post-season.

Last thing I want to end with is this...
Scheduling is not an easy thing for teams. Keep that in mind! Also, Instead of bashing someone on here for not getting statistics for a Team or your Team, you could instead help by finding those statistics for them. 93Bulldog has done a helluva job on making that website for the kids and if you have a problem with it, why not lend some help. Their are a lot of teams in the TVC. Just think how nice it would be if each team had a statistician that could send the results to -93 to help...

Ok, Last thing...
Good Luck to all TVC Teams tonight!

ATHENS...
"Just WIN Baby!"

[Heavy D]

You made a perfect point Heavy D ... "Better coaching; better programs makes the difference."

School size is like last on my list in terms of why one team 'should' beat another ... How many quality players you have in a given year is important (Wahama is a very small school and they have a bunch this year; Marietta is a fairly big school and they don't have many at all) ... Who your coach is, how well your program is being run, etc..etc... they all make a difference.

How many BOYS ARE ACTUALLY IN YOUR SCHOOL doesn't make much difference at all ... You can have 1,000 boys, a huge enrollment, but if they don't want to play football and their isn't much intrest - then your probably not going to have a very good football team ... I know we handled Parkersburg South last year - and their a huge school like that with big enrollment figures - but it didn't matter once their 40 or so players hit the field and our 40 or so players hit the field.

School size does matter a lot. If a coach can get the players out, and develop them size will win most every time. When a school is bigger and loses to the smaller school more than they win it is usually due to coaching. Hire a better coach, and you will win agains the smaller schools. Don't want to hire a better coach, lose league titles to smaller schools. Take Athens. They are the only TVC team with a true freshman team. They practice seperately and have nearly 30 players on the team. Of course those 30 are never mentioned when comparing to smaller schools numbers. Yet Athens hasn't beaten Nelsonville in several years. It is the program. If Athens ever gets it's program to the level of Nelsonville's, they will dominate Nelsonville due to shear numbers alone. Plain and simple.

[A-Town Big Dog]

Gameday! Get focused and play hard Dogs.

[CavsFan08]

Heavy D is right,

When two teams are playing on a particular night it does not matter how much bigger one school is than the other. However, when trying to compete year after year after year with a school much bigger than you is a very hard thing to do. When Athens is able to have enough kids in their school to play 3 levels of football in today's high school climate and no one else in the TVC is able to do that, it puts them at a huge advantage. Instead of having freshmen play little in JV games or getting slaughtered in JV games all season, they are able to get 8 or 9 games of experience. There are a few small schools who have freshmen teams but not many below d3.

[Bighitsinc]

NO ONE HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTION... IF SCHOOL SIZE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE THEN WHY NOT SCHEDULE SOME DIV.I TEAMS IN THE PRE LEAGUE GAMES. THE HIGHER THE DIV. THE HIGHER THE FIRST LEVEL POINTS PER OHSAA. THEY DO THIS FOR A REASON.

[saintsfan]

You guys have it all figured out, great job! Since Athens is D3 and Alex is D5 Athens should win 66-10. If they don't win or win by that much then the Athens coaches are bad and the Alex coaches are good. Is this right?