Remove Christ From Text Books?

[KVDW]

nice post, RV.

[kantuckyII]

Not to mention that they're also mimicking the founder of Islam, Mohammed.

[abuck76]

Secularism of course is not mentioned in the Constitution, but is obviously implied. .....The oath of office to the Presidency does not have so help me God........ You do not have a religious litmus test to gain office..... You do not have to put your hand on the bibe nor do you have to swear to become Prsident..... There are many of obvious examples of secularism in the Constitution...... Muslims have denounced the radical acts of a few, and these acts do not represent their principles, for example they do not accept the killing of women or children as acceptable in any circumstance..... Please read something besides the internet garbage when forming your opinions...... And just for my own amusement, what "other " religions are attempting to blow up anyone that don't believe the way they do........ Now you have mentioned you believe Islam is, but, goodness, what others. .......... :12224

[mstangmom]

No, I would not agree. People who have done evil things, supposedly "in the name of Christ/Christianity", were doing things inconsistent with the tenets of the faith. Also, all active Christians (true Christians) denounce such acts.
Muslims, however, who commit these acts are doing things perfectly consistent with their principles. And fellow muslims don't speak out & denounce these acts. They either don't speak out at all or they are ambivalent about the acts. And please don't give me some PC crap about bigotry. Facts are facts.

I would have to Disagree with that statement.
where were the "true Chritians" during thr Salem witch trials? they were either hiding in a corner somewhere for fear they would be accused or they were right there along with the church condeming these people to death.
where were the "True Christians" when The fifteenth century Spanish inquisition was happening it is sometimes considered an early form of state terrorism. With Church-sanctioned tribunals aimed to root out Jews and Muslims who had not converted to Catholicism, often through severe torture.
the list can go on and on.........
There are Muslims who Nowadays knowing that they are putting the lives of themselves and thier families on harms way speak out against terrorist acts. a few hundred years late but they do do it nowadays. they have been hiding in the corners keeping thier mouths shut the same way christians have done n the past.

[RationalVoice]

abuck,
It's funny how my belief must be explicitly stated and yours needs only to be implied.
Anyway, it's not implied - especially modern secularism, which is simply an all-out assault on Christianity.
Read what I posted. I have no problem with the US not being a theocracy. You seem to think I would like that.
You may be able to find isolated examples of muslims who have denounced terrorism, but not many. Please stick to facts.
And say what you want - but, islam is a religion of hate (gosh, I'm sorry if that's not politically correct) which mandates these acts toward those who don't share their faith.
Actually, none of what I posted came from the internet.
You did get one thing correct (and ONLY one). I said "other religions" when I should have mentioned only islam.
You're not as intelligent as you think. Your arguments are just an inconsistent & irrational as your heroes on MSNBC.
mstangmom,
Muslims in the US could (and should) speak out & denounce these acts. Very, very few do. It is safe to do so here (at least relatively safe). I agree it'd be tough to speak up in some middle eastern countries.

[mstangmom]

So RV, lets reverse the role here for a minute and just say you were musluim living here in america.
First your parents, brothers and sisters all still live in the middle east. And second because in many areas where imigrants live in america, you live in a community with all musliums.
Now you not only have to worry about what your neighbors "TRUE" point of view, cause face it al people lie. but you also have to worry about your neighbors reporting back to the Middle east and putting your family there in danger.

All I am saying is that even in the "safest" countries there are still dangers not only to yourself but to your families no matter where they are.

Even we have fears of speaking out against things, here in a country where we were born there are many things people cannot speak thier true fellings about. we may not fear "death" though some do but there are many reasons people don't speak out.
Admit you are Gay and you can get tied to a fence and beat to death or drug beind a pick up truck
Speak out against people being gay and you can find yourself in court for hate crimes fearing imprisnment or being sued for millions of $$$$.
Say a prayer and let someone hear it and you are infringing on someones right for freedom of religion, when you go to wal-mart do they say merry christmas anymore?
there are many things we keep our mouths shut about all religions, all countries.............

[RationalVoice]

You are right, in a sense. Sometimes you have to choose between what is right and dangerous...and what is wrong and safe.

[caglewis]

Even we have fears of speaking out against things, here in a country where we were born there are many things people cannot speak thier true fellings about. we may not fear "death" though some do but there are many reasons people don't speak out.
Admit you are Gay and you can get tied to a fence and beat to death or drug beind a pick up truck
Speak out against people being gay and you can find yourself in court for hate crimes fearing imprisnment or being sued for millions of $$$$.
Say a prayer and let someone hear it and you are infringing on someones right for freedom of religion, when you go to wal-mart do they say merry christmas anymore?
there are many things we keep our mouths shut about all religions, all countries.............

Saying a prayer or hearing a prayer is way different from enforcing or making punishable by LAW failure to participate/believe in YOUR particular brand of worship/religion or forcing specificity in the WAY to pray or of even doing it at all as being LEGALLY RIGHT. GOD is not mentioned in our country's CONSTITUTION! But people of color were counted as worth "3/5" the value of Caucasions, and females and "renters" were denied the right to vote at all in that precious document!
I used to think "Christianity" represented loving inclusion, and I attended, contributed to, supported, and believed in it and made my kids do so. I thought the Civil Rights legislation fought over and passed back in the '60's guaranteeing Constitutional rights for ALL actually espoused "Christian" principles. Somehow, the current Christian message seems to be nothing but HATE - believe ONLY this way in GOD or ELSE - and promoting LAWS to punish all who don't meet your particular "Biblical" standards. Wasn't THAT the standard and point of the "Jim Crow" laws? GOT THAT MESSAGE

[Burg_Grad_77]

No, I would not agree. People who have done evil things, supposedly "in the name of Christ/Christianity", were doing things inconsistent with the tenets of the faith. Also, all active Christians (true Christians) denounce such acts.

So then, explain to me how entire civilizations, right down to every man, woman, and child were wiped off the face off the Earth in the name of God. I know this is Old Testament stuff and before Christ, but it was still done "in the name of God". These armies were told that God demanded them to kill everyone. To wipe them out entirely.

[kantuckyII]

First of all, there are MANY countries in this world where if you become a Christian you'll suffer dearly for it by Muslims. This can include being burned, having boiling water put on you, having your scrotum sliced with razor blades, women (and sometimes men) are brutally raped. Christian's homes are set on fire. This is only going to get worse and worse as we approach the last day. Many Christian's believe that the "woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" spoken of in the Book Of The Revelation is Islam. I tend to agree more everyday and the more I think about it, that belief grows stronger. Islam IS a religion that puts works as it's way to God. Christianity is Grace and Grace alone. Saving grace received by placing ones faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.


Secondly, back to the subject line...Christ IS a historical figure that has completely and permanently changed this planet upon which we live on. That really doesn't or shouldn't have to be said by anyone, no matter how they view Christ. Now, everyone has to do one thing then...either receive Christ as the Savior or reject Him, you cannot remain neutral.

[RationalVoice]

Burg_Grad_77,
First, let me preface this by saying that, usually, answers to questions like these don't satisfy liberals. They simply don't like the moral constraints placed on them by Christian values (calling it "intolerant" and such). There are other reasons as well.
Secondly, I'm not a theologian. I read the Bible 5-6 days a week or so to learn, worship, & be a better person (I definitely still fall short in some areas). But, here's what I believe about the Old Testament violence, in short.
Several things come to mind. *You are right. It is different now in New Testament times. And that is significant.
*It's evident in the Bible that God sometimes does not do his will, but goes with the wishes of people. Sometimes, I believe, the people get what they ask for & eventually pay a price. *God means what he says. Folks these days don't embrace the concepts of responsibility and accountability - but God does. Many times God gives (and gave) warnings which are not heeded. *Even through atrocities, sometimes greater good is served. The atomic bombs dropped on Japan killed both the innocent and the guilty...but - in the end - lives were spared because of the abrupt halt to the war. *I believe in God's omniscience. If He says it, that settles it. If He does it, it is inherently justified (I know that does nothing for you - but, that's how I see it).
You'd get a better answer if you asked a man of the cloth. That's a layman's point of view. You may say that a muslim has similar beliefs about their god. If that works for you, go with it. I would deny that their god even exists.
The God of the Bible (the only correct choice) is a God of Love, but justice will be served.

[caglewis]

The God of the Bible (the only correct choice) is a God of Love, but justice will be served.

Fine by me for you to believe in and practice [or NOT practice] any Religion!
I grant you that PERSONAL choice - but I seriously object to your making YOUR personal RELIGIOUS beliefs and choices into civil LAW or taught in PUBLIC schools in the name of YOUR RELIGION; and making "non-belief" applicable, enforceable, and punishable for ALL others who believe differently. Got your message - I no longer attend, support, pray to, or believe in any RELIGION at ALL! This all-powerful perfect GOD you PRAY to is the same one who sends down 10 times too much rain in one place causing death and destruction, but 1/10 enough elsewhere also causing death and destruction, and gleefully creates storms, disease and disasters, right? If any one of us did our job that poorly, would we not be called incompetent and fired? How much good does "praying" do to anyone stricken? All those who "prayed correctly" survived or never got sick or lost anything, right? And if you suffered, it was because you failed to believe or worship correctly and DESERVED to be punished?

Every time I attempt to sign in to this site I'm a little amazed that my doing so still works, and I'm still allowed - despite my contrary political/religious beliefs - to contribute or express an opinion at all, and have not been banished forever by the powers-that-be or, better yet, struck down by God.

[RationalVoice]

Cag,
You don't make any sense with your rants. It's incomprehensible gibberish. You're arguing against points I didn't even make. Please stay on topic and try to make sense.
Also...seek and ye shall find.