TVC OHIO - What schools should be added?

[NYBuckeye96]

In light of the recent TVC Expansion and Realignment, what schools do you think should be added as the 15th and 16th members to join the six Ohio Division schools to create two 8 team divisions?

Here is how the TVC will look in 2010-2011:

OHIO - 6 teams
Athens (363)
Vinton County (296)
Meigs (223)
Alexander (206)
Wellston (181)
Nelsonville-York (161)

HOCKING - 8 teams
Belpre (140)
Federal Hocking (138)
Trimble (112)
South Gallia (100)
Miller (97)
Eastern (95)
Southern (91)
Waterford (90)

Possible scenerios: Two teams are added to the Ohio Division to create two 8 team divisions.
Four teams are added to create THREE Divisions of 6 teams each - Large, Medium, and Small

Geographically, these four teams work best:

Warren (362) - Basicly same size as Athens - one boy less than the Bulldogs
River Valley (190) - Smaller than Athens, VC, Meigs, and Alexander, slightly larger than Wellston and NY
Oak Hill (145) - would be the smallest school in the TVC OHIO, but larger than the 8 Hocking schools
Jackson (301) - smaller than Athens, bigger than the rest of the current division teams.

Also, the four schools above have applied for admission to the TVC in the past and were denied under former makeups of the league. Oak Hill applied back around when Eastern and Southern applied in the early '90s, but was denied membership back then. Warren applied in 2008, but was denied membership at that time. River Valley applied twice - once in the early '90s, in which the Raiders were admitted, but decided to go to the SEOAL instead. River Valley again applied earlier this decade before joining the OVC, but the TVC turned them down at that time. Jackson also applied for admission earlier this year but was declined.

It will be interesting to see if any of these four teams apply for readmission after the latest expansion/realignment. All four have expressed an interest in the TVC in the past, so I think it is very realistic to consider these four schools as possible expansion candidates because of that past interest.

Here are pros and cons I can think of for each of those four schools -

Warren - Charter member of the TVC. Left in 1986 because smaller schools like Belpre and NY made the playoffs throughout the early 80s, but Warren never could make the playoffs in a larger division because only 2 teams qualified at that time instead of eight like today. Warren would bring top programs in most sports to the league. With Marietta actively exploring a move to the ECOL, Warren would kind of be out there by itself in the SEOAL, with no geographically close league members in the SEOAL. Warren would compete for a league championship in most TVC sports in most years. There would be more natural rivals in the TVC for Warren than exists in the SEOAL, especially if Marietta bolts for the ECOL.

River Valley - Currently in the OVC. The only school in the OVC that is not in Lawrence County. For that reason alone, River Valley is an awkward fit in the OVC. With the addition of sister school South Gallia to the TVC Hocking, it would only be natural for River Valley to be affiliated with the same league. River Valley would also have more natural rivals in the TVC than in the OVC, with several schools nearby - Meigs, Wellston and Vinton County. River Valley has not dominated in any sport, so as things stand right now, River Valley would not dominate anything in particular. This could be a positive or a negative, depending on your point of view.

Oak Hill - Currently in the SOC. Before joining the SOC, the Oaks were denied membership to the TVC in the early 90's. There would be natural geographic rivals formed against Wellston and Vinton County. Oak Hill would bring a top tier boys and girls basketball program to the TVC.

Jackson - Currently in the SEOAL. Jackson would dominate football, but would probably have an even playing field in most other sports with other TVC teams. In most years, only NY would have a chance at beating Jackson in football, at least as things stand today. Jackson would have natural rivals with Wellston and Vinton County, however, Jackson already plays those two schools as non-league games.

While it is possible other schools may be interested, I only mention these four for two reasons - their geographic location in proximity to other TVC schools AND the fact that all four of these schools have applied to be admitted to the TVC in the past, meaning that at one point or another in the recent past, these schools wanted to join the TVC but were denied membership under the former makeup of the league.

[WitnessProtection]

If I were the TVC Czar, I would actively recruit Jackson and Warren.

[boilermaker]

Jackson will not get in..no way. Warren maybe and River Valley I would say they will be in if they choose to apply again.

[NYBuckeye96]

Travel Distances for Warren in the TVC would be between 45 minutes and 1 hour for 4 of the 6 schools - with only VC and Wellston being over an hour.

Vincent to
The Plains 34 miles, 48 minutes
Pomeroy 37 miles, 44 minutes
Nelsonville 41 miles, 55 minutes
Albany 48 miles, 54 minutes
McArthur 64 miles, 1 hour 12 minutes
Wellston 69 miles, 1 hour 20 minutes


If Marietta joined the ECOL, no trip for Warren in the SEOAL would be less than 1 hour. Chillicothe is nearly 2 hours and Portsmouth is over 2 hours.

Vincent to
Marietta 15 miles, 22 minutes
Logan 53 miles, 1 hour 9 minutes
Gallipolis 57 miles, 1 hour 9 minutes
Jackson 77 miles, 1 hour 25 minutes
Chillicothe 95 miles, 1 hour 50 minutes
Portsmouth 122 miles, 2 hours 16 minutes

[WitnessProtection]

gahs4ever asked, "And just what is the recent track record of TVC schools in the playoffs?"

2008 Playoffs
SEOAL: 3-3
TVC: 1-3

2007
SEOAL: 0-3
TVC: 0-1

2006
SEOAL: 1-5
TVC: 0-3

2005
SEOAL: 2-2
TVC: 0-1

Totals since 2005
SEOAL: 6-13
TVC: 1-8

[NYBuckeye96]

Here are numbers for River Valley......all schools in the TVC OHIO are less than 1 hour away......

Cheshire to
Pomeroy 8 miles, 14 minutes
Albany 26 miles, 33 minutes
The Plains 37 miles, 42 minutes
McArthur 41 miles, 49 minutes
Nelsonville 44 miles, 49 minutes
Wellston 44 miles, 51 minutes

[bman]

Warren and Jackson would make good additions to the league. I would agree the SEOAL has fared better than the TVC in football and basketball, but economics are going to be driving more and more decisions.

[NYBuckeye96]

And here are Oak Hill's numbers........

Oak Hill to
Wellston 20 miles, 28 minutes
McArthur 30 miles, 43 minutes
Albany 41 miles, 48 minutes
Pomeroy 41 miles, 54 minutes
The Plains 52 miles, 1 hour 5 minutes
Nelsonville 63 miles, 1 hour 13 minutes

[NYBuckeye96]

For Jackson, just add 10 miles or 15 minutes to how long it already takes each school to get to Wellston.

[The Fonz]

I wouldn't want to see Oak Hill leave the SOC. They get much better competition in the SOC than they would in the TVC. Oak Hill won a state title in basketball this year and they had a couple losses in the league. Talk about great competition, they would have breezed through the TVC undefeated and it might have cost them in a tight game in the tourny. Look at VC, they play a weak schedule every year and they never do much in the tourny. Nelsonville is the same way in football. Weak regular season then a quick out in the playoffs. No thank you, TVC, the Oaks are good where they are.

[buckfan84]

Nelsonville has a weak schedule? You might want to let Ironton in on that. I think they might think a little differently.

[Orange and Brown]

I agree with GAHS4ever for the most part. I am not for to much expansion. It will happen to fast and we will see what happened to the SEOAL happen to the TVC. I would like to see Warren added to the TVC but I don't want things to move to quickly. The SEOAL is a good league and now teams are leaving and others are looking for a way out all because they expanded to fast. The TVC needs to wait a while and laet the teams that have been added( Athens, South Gallia,) And the team that moved (Belpre) settle in.


GO BUCKS GO!!!!!!

[mister b]

My 2 cents....

Add 4 teams to make it 18 teams in 3, 6 team divisions.

BIG...

Jackson-378
Athens-363
Warren-335
Vinton-296
Gallia-247
Meigs-223

MEDIUM...

Alexander-206
River Valley-191
Wellston-181
Nelsonville-161
Belpre-140
Federal Hocking-138

SMALL...

Trimble-112
South Gallia-100
Miller-96
Eastern-93
Southern-91
Waterford-90

[warrnwarriorfan]

I know for a FACT that Warren would love to be in the TVC. The rivalries wouldn't have to be developed, they already exist. The travel times would be perfect.

All the folks that moved Warren out of the TVC are long gone. In my opinion Warren SHOULD be in the TVC.

IF the TVC would let Warren back in they would jump at it in a heart beat.

Warren would be a good addition to the league and would be a nice addition to the competition.

[theassassin]

the new river valley high school is located in bidwell not cheshire.... those distances and travel time will change. some may be farther but others will be shorter trips.

Here are numbers for River Valley......all schools in the TVC OHIO are less than 1 hour away......

Cheshire to
Pomeroy 8 miles, 14 minutes
Albany 26 miles, 33 minutes
The Plains 37 miles, 42 minutes
McArthur 41 miles, 49 minutes
Nelsonville 44 miles, 49 minutes
Wellston 44 miles, 51 minutes

[WHSwarrior]

I dont mean to keep beating the same dead horse but I just dont see what is so terrible or cost prohibitive about road trips that last around or a very little over an hour; the trips to Chillicothe and Portsmouth being the exceptions, but then how often in any given school year are those trips going to be made? I know for football only we are talking once every two years; hardly a burden on anyone.

If the powers-that-be at Warren deem moving BACK to the TVC a wise choice, then so be it, but please dont insult anyone's intelligence by suggesting it is regrettably being done because of travel alone.

The Warren teams that I remember from the mid 90s would be very powerful in the TVC Ohio; even against N-Y. In fact, only N-Y could have given those Warren teams a game from the TVC Ohio, and yes I remember the 1998 9-1 Meigs team. A 3-7 GAHS team that Warren crushed that year gave Meigs that one loss and Meigs didnt even make the playoffs at 9-1.

The ONLY reason Warren football has floundered the last ten years is because it has become a political football in the community complete with a coaching carousel unparalled in these parts. If what happened there had happened anywhere else, anywhere else would have floundered too. Hopefully the merry-go-round is over and some consistency in coaching can restore a once proud program.

I believe if Warren will just stay the course they have followed the past 24 years or so they will live to see a revival of Warrior football. Even with all their troubles they have a better record in SEOAL football than their Washington County counterparts, Marietta in terms of wins and losses.

Every sport at Warren has won an SEOAL or Sectional Title in the past six years except football and girls soccer. Every one. Don't tell me we are having the conversation about the jump from the SEOAL to the TVC because Warren cannot compete in the SEOAL. That's not the attitude around here...but if Marietta leaves the league, the closest SEOAL team is Logan or Gallia. Competition-wise, Warren is best off in the SEOAL or MVL , and the "powers-that-be" know that. But If Etta leaves the SEOAL, we become like the River Valley of the OVC, smaller school that is out in the middle of nowhere. If Marietta leaves, then, yes, Warren is going to have to look elsewhere because of travel reasons.

Elsewhere doesn't automatically mean the TVC, either. If the proposed ECOL expansion happens, the MVL will have possible openings. That league provides a bunch of similarly sized schools, and Warren has rivalries with some of them (Morgan, Philo) already. And if the TVC adds a big school to go along with Warren in its next expansion, that will augment the level of competition there. The good thing to come out of this whole mess is that Warren now has options. Two weeks ago, Coach Pifer had a discussion at the spring sports banquet as to how the league was changing, and he made it clear that we're riding it out til the SEOAL kicks us out. But had that happened, Warren would be stuck in the middle of nowhere. At least now, with changes in the TVC and possibly in the ECOL, Warren has options, options that don't include "independent".

And I'm most certainly not insulting anyone's intelligence.

[warrnwarriorfan]

My family has lived through the whole shootin' match.

The fact is, the NEW and improved SEOAL is already a thing of the past. I know it's a dynamic situation, but the current circumstance is not, in my opinion, the best answer for Warren athletics. In the past we had healthy competition with Gallia and Jackson. Well, we didn't play either of those teams last year in football, and we won't play either team this year either. It's hard to maintain a rivalry when you take a couple years off every two years. Instead, we play Ironton, Portsmouth and Chillicothe. The fine folks in those communities have NO IDEA who or what Warren Local schools are, and their attendance at our home games clearly demonstrates that fact. Warren can compete in the SEOAL in every sport, this year's football team will take another step in the right direction, but Warren folks are weary of the SEOAL and carousel that it has become.

Besides, Warren does not want to be left out in cold when everyone is gone.

The TVC is demographically similar and all the schools are close enough for easy travel. The TVC is stable. It makes perfect sense for Warren to RE-join the TVC.

As schools continue to leave, the SEOAL may evolve into something more desirable. I know schedules are already being revised. But, for now, the SEOAL is not a very pleasant place to be.

[theassassin]

Here are numbers for River Valley......all schools in the TVC OHIO are less than 1 hour away......

Cheshire to
Pomeroy 8 miles, 14 minutes
Albany 26 miles, 33 minutes
The Plains 37 miles, 42 minutes
McArthur 41 miles, 49 minutes
Nelsonville 44 miles, 49 minutes
Wellston 44 miles, 51 minutes

From Bidwell I would have to not only challenge those driving times but the quality of the roads traveled to get to those places.

In the first place you would have to take 554 from Bidwell to Cheshire to get to Rt 7 and head north to Pomeroy. You cant get to Cheshire in 14 minutes let alone Pomeroy, plus 554 floods everytime too many people flush their toilets at the same time.

Likewise to get to Albany the shortest way is to take 160 north thru Vinton to the App; not the smoothest trip for sure and definitely not done in 33 minutes.

Same to get to Wellston and McArthur. Narrow, twisty roads that a bus would have trouble averaging much over 40 mph without making the riders car sick.

A car MIGHT make those drive times, but not a bus and they wont be pleasant trips. At least four of them over an hour on questionable roads. In the OVC it is almost a straight shot down 160 to 7S anywhere in Lawrence County.

Dont get me wrong. I always wondered why RV didnt take the TVC over the OVC from the beginning. The OVC is a Lawrence County league with RV being the only out of county school and those teams resent having to come up river once a season even though RV has to make the trip for all of their road games. Concerning the TVC, it makes more sense to me; just not for travel reasons.

i'd probly take 35 over to jackson and then on to wellston and maybe vc from there. you could take 160 to the app highway and then west.

160 over to the app highway when traveling to alex, athens, ny

[NYBuckeye96]

Now as the next five year plan is being considered, Portsmouth has applied to the SOC and their AD has stated in the Portsmouth Times that they will continue to look for league arrangements closer to home. Then Jackson applied to both the SOC and the TVC and were turned down.

Now Marietta has definitely at least attended an ECOL meeting as reported in the Zanesville paper, and rumors about Warren have been circulating longer than Ive been around GAHS.

So with what we know now, of the 7 remaining members of the SEOAL, 4 of them have been shopping elsewhere for a new league. Only Logan, Gallia Academy, and Chillicothe have not been looking. I feel like Logan and Chillicothe are "stuck" in the SEOAL, meaning no options are available to them even if they wanted something else. So it's almost like Gallia Academy is the only school that really wants to be in the SEOAL in the first place.

Why doesn't the SEOAL and TVC just merge into one league with three or four divisions like the OCC in Columbus? That way, when a current SEOAL school leaves, it would not be detrimental to the SEOAL. You could simply take the current SEOAL schools and make them one division within the SEOAL and then take the current TVC Ohio and make them one division within the SEOAL and then take the current TVC Hocking and make them one division within the SEOAL. That way, if a team ever leaves, there is a possibility of moving a team up or down a division to take its place. There would be no worry of a league folding because of the sheer number of schools involved. If teams from each division played each other, it would be a nonleague game, like it is now in the TVC.

What seems to be more likely to become extinct..........a league with four members total or a league with around 20 members total that might have one "big school" division with only 4 or 5 members in it?

Also, you could do something like the SOC does..........maybe Warren could play with the current TVC OHIO schools in football, but play everything else with the current SEOAL schools. Likewise, maybe Jackson could play football with the current SEOAL schools, but play the TVC Ohio schools in everything else. Kind of how Oak Hill is SOC 1 for football, but SOC II for everything else.

Then, competition because a little more balanced, and people will be less likely to leave.

[WitnessProtection]

In regard to expansion, I think the TVC should stand pat for now.
Take a cue from the SEOAL that expansion is not all it's cracked up to be. It can lead to a revolving door, which is bad for everybody involved.
Athens already had standing rivalries with several of its fellow TVC Ohio members, and South Gallia also has ties to TVC Hocking competitors, which makes both schools a good fit for the TVC.
In contrast, Zanesville brought absolutely nothing to the SEOAL.
And although Ironton enjoyed a nice history with the SEOAL, the I-towners are mavericks (not a bad thing, mind you) and I was never convinced they were in the SEOAL for the long haul.
As for Chillicothe and Portsmouth, who knows?
Chilli definitely has other options available to them from a geographic standpoint, if the other leagues will cooperate with them.
Portsmouth would apparently like to get in the SOC, but it's apparent the SOC has no love for Portsmouth.

Witness's bottom line: The TVC made the right move bringing in Athens and South Gallia.
Witness's sage wisdom: Let the new groove settle in before you stir the pot again.