D4 Northwest Sectional

[Gold and Blue]

1. Clay
2. Beaver
3. Bam Bam's gf
4. Notre Dame
5. East
6. Western
7. North
8. Purple
9. South
10. Fairfield
11. New Boston
12. South Webster
13. Womanchester
14. White Oak
15. Steve

At least you got the one seed right before the battery went down.

Forgot lol!

[Ironman92]

My gut tells me that for the first time in a long time if ever that the SOC II is all mighty may not work for political leverage in this draw.

Has it ever?

[bbjunky81]

Not that they couldn't potentially be 3rd in the SOC I, but I don't think they would be. East is in 4th, and I think they are better, and they have beaten Webster head to head.

Not seeing a logical argument for Webster or Western over East. After tonight's win over Manchester, the Tartans have a better record than both at 10-6. East beat Webster in their head to head. East recently throttled Western at Western, and during their slump. The Tartans also boast victories over Clay and Eastern on the season.

There is the case for East at the 6.

I would agree that East is the better team..... before Scott went down. Webster had no answer for him and he was clearly the difference maker in the game. Now that he's out with an injury, I absolutely positively do not think East is better. I mean, just 5 days apart both East and Webster faced Clay, right? East got destroyed by 30 AT EAST, and Webster was up 1 with 2:00 left AT CLAY.

But you really truly believe that right now East is better than Webster?? Ughhhh

[Western24]

Your comparisons are solely in your favor. Keep in mind, Webster doesn't face Green or Symmes twice a year, and New Boston is coming up only once in 2 weeks.

Your comparisons are this:

Western beat East once.... then after their 2nd best player got hurt, they beat Western @ Western by 17. If South Webster were to play East at home is there really any argument East would win? I don't see it. SW was tied with a minute left and the Scott kid (no longer on team) hit a 15 foot hook to go up 2, a missed shot by SW and game is over. Scott was undoubtedly the difference maker, East had no answer for SW's guards. Scott had something like 18 and 14.

Then you have Waverly. Sure, Webster lost twice to them -- both by 9. One game they led until 2 minutes left, other game was down 2 with 2 mins left. Free throws are the only reason it ended at 9. Western got blown out by Waverly.

Then you have @ Clay, Western lost by 9, Webster lost by 7 and led with 2 mins left.

Then you have Notre Dame. Western lost twice, even pretty decisively at home. Then Webster waxed ND @ ND (up 20 with 3 mins left and starters came out).

You also don't give enough credit for the @ Wheelersburg win... only team all year to beat Wheelersburg there. A Wheelersburg team that would win the SOC 1 (and should have won the SOC 2). Webster doesn't play Peebles or Eastern so you can't really compare that, but I can guarantee Wheelersburg is 10+ points better than both (and yes I've seen both).


Like I said, you're shaping your arguments solely in Western's favor --- I can do the same. If you look at all the comparisons the only one you could really argue is the win vs East, but when East comes to your place and waxes you by 17 after that, it's a tough argument because South Webster wasn't fortunate enough to play them twice.

I don't believe wheelersburg is a better team then the top 2 SOC 1 teams..and isn't Oak Hill undefeated in the league as of now? How is that a belief that Wheelersburg should have won theirs. They still have to play, and I'm guessing the Oaks will come up on top again. If you aren't basing it on records then you could make the case for western that they have to play Clay twice, Eastern twice, East twice, Notre Dame twice, which are all teams that would heavily compete in the other league. And South Webster is now 1-3 against the three of those teams.

Perhaps you can't read. I said Wheelersburg SHOULD HAVE won the SOC 2. I didn't say they were going to, Oak Hill has that pretty much wrapped up. Burg has the most talent, depth, and athleticism. I repeat, they SHOULD have won the SOC 2.

No, they're not. Webster is 1-2 with losses @ East and @ Clay, and a blowout win @ ND. Western is 1-4 against East, Notre Dame, and Clay. So instead of trying to say "Oh Webster is 1-2 against the SOC 1" like they played the bad SOC 1 teams, let's compare only the teams they've both played.

With the teams they've both played, Webster is 1-2. Western is 1-4.

Then let's compare individual losses:

East - Webster lost by 5, Western by 17
Clay - Webster lost by 7, Western by 9
Notre Dame - Webster won by 11, Western lost by 12 and 7.

Again, simply not seeing the argument.

The argument is this Webster is 8-8. Western is 9-7. With Key wins against Peebles, East and Eastern. Webster should win out before the draw. As for Western it will be tough to go 3-1 but it can happen. If it does happen, no doubt should Western be ahead of Webster.

[bbjunky81]

I don't believe wheelersburg is a better team then the top 2 SOC 1 teams..and isn't Oak Hill undefeated in the league as of now? How is that a belief that Wheelersburg should have won theirs. They still have to play, and I'm guessing the Oaks will come up on top again. If you aren't basing it on records then you could make the case for western that they have to play Clay twice, Eastern twice, East twice, Notre Dame twice, which are all teams that would heavily compete in the other league. And South Webster is now 1-3 against the three of those teams.

Perhaps you can't read. I said Wheelersburg SHOULD HAVE won the SOC 2. I didn't say they were going to, Oak Hill has that pretty much wrapped up. Burg has the most talent, depth, and athleticism. I repeat, they SHOULD have won the SOC 2.

No, they're not. Webster is 1-2 with losses @ East and @ Clay, and a blowout win @ ND. Western is 1-4 against East, Notre Dame, and Clay. So instead of trying to say "Oh Webster is 1-2 against the SOC 1" like they played the bad SOC 1 teams, let's compare only the teams they've both played.

With the teams they've both played, Webster is 1-2. Western is 1-4.

Then let's compare individual losses:

East - Webster lost by 5, Western by 17
Clay - Webster lost by 7, Western by 9
Notre Dame - Webster won by 11, Western lost by 12 and 7.

Again, simply not seeing the argument.

The argument is this Webster is 8-8. Western is 9-7. With Key wins against Peebles, East and Eastern. Webster should win out before the draw. As for Western it will be tough to go 3-1 but it can happen. If it does happen, no doubt should Western be ahead of Webster.

The argument is simple:

Webster is 1-2 against common opponents that Western is 1-4 against.

[Western24]

My gut tells me that for the first time in a long time if ever that the SOC II is all mighty may not work for political leverage in this draw.

Has it ever?

Im guessing it is meant as the SOC II has always been the powerhouse but not this year. Fenton said himself before the game " Clay could win the SOC 2 this year if they were in it"

[Western24]

For all we know Webster could be 1-4 as well if they played them 2 of the teams two times

[Ironman92]

My gut tells me that for the first time in a long time if ever that the SOC II is all mighty may not work for political leverage in this draw.

Has it ever?

Im guessing it is meant as the SOC II has always been the powerhouse but not this year. Fenton said himself before the game " Clay could win the SOC 2 this year if they were in it"

It's the closest I've seen the two divisions in my 20 years of keeping a pretty close watch.

OH vs Clay
Burg vs Eastern
Waverly vs ND
Minford vs Western
South Webster vs East

[Western24]

Burg vs Eastern would be fun with Barrick on that sideline.

[Spectator555]

So websters only SOC 1 win was against Notre Dame which was also a team that was down 12 against green at half during their last matchup

[bbjunky81]

So websters only SOC 1 win was against Notre Dame which was also a team that was down 12 against green at half during their last matchup

In which they won by double digits. Games aren't decided by halves.

Notre Dame also destroyed East @ East by 20, beat Western twice, and only lost to Clay by 1. What they did in one half means nothing, Notre Dame's resume speaks for itself.

The most ironic part about whatever argument you're trying to make here is that East won @ Green by 8. Notre Dame won @ Green by 12... considering wins are determined by the entire game and not halves, you actually just made East looks worse instead of whatever you were trying to accomplish.

[Harambe]

As of tonight seeds should be

1. Clay
2. Eastern Pike
3. ND
4. Peebles
5. Fairfield Leesburg
6. East
7. Western Pike
8. Webster
9. Manchester
10. Glenwood
11. Whiteoak

If ND drops another one then they move down a spot.

If Western can beat either Clay or Eastern and win their other two games they could move up to 6. I see the SOC 1 sticking together this year so they can stay away from waterford and get as many chances at a regional as possible. I would not be surprised to see 3 SOC 1 teams in the district final games.

[js7_22]

So websters only SOC 1 win was against Notre Dame which was also a team that was down 12 against green at half during their last matchup

#1. Go back to bed, Webster vs Notre Dame was 4 games into the season, I'll take a rematch of that game today. South Webster needs to realize they are equally matched this year in the SOC 1 with teams like Clay, Eastern, Notre Dame and East. Notre Dame shot the ball horribly in the first 12 minutes of the game vs Green but came into the second half with a new look and blew passed Green, only allowing 3 points.

#2. Clay would not win the SOC 2 (Oak Hill and Waverly are tough opponents), if any of you have forgotten, their is currently a 3 way tie happening in the SOC 1 right now. Clay got out to a lead vs Notre Dame and found itself down 1 with 5.5 seconds left in the game, before hitting 2 foul shots and a missed layout by ND to beat them.

#3. East has struggled lately, but did have a good win vs Eastern the other night, without Scott. They are a toss up.

#4. Eastern can play with any of the above teams mentioned above, including SW.

The almighty SOC 2 talk is mute this year. Move on to something else. You guys are beating a dead horse.

Clay today may be the #1 seed, but remember they still have an away game vs ND on Wednesday night. Still lots of games left before the draw.
Fairfield is a tough, scrappy and fast team to play, they'll def be a handful for anyone to play. Clay has shooters outside who shoot very well. Eastern has been struggling to score points, but a great coach will help get them going in the right position come tournament time. East has me scratching my head, they are either winning the game or getting blown out, it's gone back and forth for them. Notre Dame has been in all of their games except for the Webster game, they struggled to make shots. Their loss to Clay by 1 says something about them though.

It's going to be a good tournament and whoever gets out of it with wins will def be playing great basketball.

[js7_22]

So websters only SOC 1 win was against Notre Dame which was also a team that was down 12 against green at half during their last matchup

In which they won by double digits. Games aren't decided by halves.

Notre Dame also destroyed East @ East by 20, beat Western twice, and only lost to Clay by 1. What they did in one half means nothing, Notre Dame's resume speaks for itself.

The most ironic part about whatever argument you're trying to make here is that East won @ Green by 8. Notre Dame won @ Green by 12... considering wins are determined by the entire game and not halves, you actually just made East looks worse instead of whatever you were trying to accomplish.

Good post BB, Spectator555 should remain a spectator and avoid posting...

[TheSportsGuy]

[/quote]

I would agree that East is the better team..... before Scott went down. Webster had no answer for him and he was clearly the difference maker in the game. Now that he's out with an injury, I absolutely positively do not think East is better. I mean, just 5 days apart both East and Webster faced Clay, right? East got destroyed by 30 AT EAST, and Webster was up 1 with 2:00 left AT CLAY.

But you really truly believe that right now East is better than Webster?? Ughhhh[/quote]

Yes, I do.

Scott didn't have 18 and 14 against SW. He did have 14, and likely 8-11 boards. Also, the game was controlled by East from the 2nd quarter on. East led by 8-10 multiple times and Webster kept it close. They also hit like 21 of 23 free throws. I am not arguing that the Tartans aren't a better team with him, but it is a funny game. Case in point:

With Scott the Tartans lose at home to Western and at Eastern by 15. Without him they win at Western by 17 and at home vs. Eastern in a game where they led 8-15 throughout.

The Notre Dame game was not a 20 pt thrashing. ND jumped out on East, but it was a 4 point game with 2 minutes left. Not that it really matters. ND played well and won. The seeding should be based on merit and not hypotheticals.

The argument of the SOC I vs. the SOC I I is interesting. It shouldn't be this close, but it is. Both leagues have always had bottomed feeders. New Boston and Green vs. Northwest and West. West and NB have played the past few years and the games have been competitive. I will say that East, currently 4th in the SOC I is 2-0 vs. the SOC I I. Wins against the 4th and 5th placed Jeeps and Falcons.

[js7_22]

Yes, I do.

Scott didn't have 18 and 14 against SW. He did have 14, and likely 8-11 boards. Also, the game was controlled by East from the 2nd quarter on. East led by 8-10 multiple times and Webster kept it close. They also hit like 21 of 23 free throws. I am not arguing that the Tartans aren't a better team with him, but it is a funny game. Case in point:

With Scott the Tartans lose at home to Western and at Eastern by 15. Without him they win at Western by 17 and at home vs. Eastern in a game where they led 8-15 throughout.

The Notre Dame game was not a 20 pt thrashing. ND jumped out on East, but it was a 4 point game with 2 minutes left. Not that it really matters. ND played well and won. The seeding should be based on merit and not hypotheticals.

The argument of the SOC I vs. the SOC I I is interesting. It shouldn't be this close, but it is. Both leagues have always had bottomed feeders. New Boston and Green vs. Northwest and West. West and NB have played the past few years and the games have been competitive. I will say that East, currently 4th in the SOC I is 2-0 vs. the SOC I I. Wins against the 4th and 5th placed Jeeps and Falcons.

Notre Dame vs East was far from close most of the entire game, and never gave up the lead. Led by 11-14 most of the game, East's multiple technical fouls just added 3 points at the end...

[Spectator555]

So websters only SOC 1 win was against Notre Dame which was also a team that was down 12 against green at half during their last matchup

In which they won by double digits. Games aren't decided by halves.

Notre Dame also destroyed East @ East by 20, beat Western twice, and only lost to Clay by 1. What they did in one half means nothing, Notre Dame's resume speaks for itself.

The most ironic part about whatever argument you're trying to make here is that East won @ Green by 8. Notre Dame won @ Green by 12... considering wins are determined by the entire game and not halves, you actually just made East looks worse instead of whatever you were trying to accomplish.

Good post BB, Spectator555 should remain a spectator and avoid posting...

My whole post was to prove that you can't compare scores form teams to teams. In high school basketball it's just inaccuarate. For example, South Webster lost to Oak hill by a decent amount (not sure of the score), where as eastern only lost to them by 3 (given that was also in the beginning of the season) well Clay and East have both beaten Eastern by double digits yet that doesn't have any relevance with SW. It's all about math ups, which team comes out hot, who comes out focused and ready to go. Comparing who you have BEAT and who some of your tough losses to is a much more accuarate debate then comparing scores of how bad you beat "said team" and how they have done against other teams previously during the season. With all that said SW is still 1-2 against SOC 1 teams.

[TheSportsGuy]

Yes, I do.

Scott didn't have 18 and 14 against SW. He did have 14, and likely 8-11 boards. Also, the game was controlled by East from the 2nd quarter on. East led by 8-10 multiple times and Webster kept it close. They also hit like 21 of 23 free throws. I am not arguing that the Tartans aren't a better team with him, but it is a funny game. Case in point:

With Scott the Tartans lose at home to Western and at Eastern by 15. Without him they win at Western by 17 and at home vs. Eastern in a game where they led 8-15 throughout.

The Notre Dame game was not a 20 pt thrashing. ND jumped out on East, but it was a 4 point game with 2 minutes left. Not that it really matters. ND played well and won. The seeding should be based on merit and not hypotheticals.

The argument of the SOC I vs. the SOC I I is interesting. It shouldn't be this close, but it is. Both leagues have always had bottomed feeders. New Boston and Green vs. Northwest and West. West and NB have played the past few years and the games have been competitive. I will say that East, currently 4th in the SOC I is 2-0 vs. the SOC I I. Wins against the 4th and 5th placed Jeeps and Falcons.

Notre Dame vs East was far from close most of the entire game, and never gave up the lead. Led by 11-14 most of the game, East's multiple technical fouls just added 3 points at the end...

Wrong. I would call it being 4-6 points with a few minutes left, especially in that gym close. Not arguing that ND led the whole game, but the Tartans did make it close. Also the 3 techs led to more than 3 points at the end. They helped ND close the game on a 14-0 run. You won by 18....

As I said earlier, doesn't matter now. They'll meet again in a few weeks.

[jeepmadness]

I remember some similar arguments made about 10 years ago the season after Webster won the state. Webster was 10-10 (at best) seeded #8 vs the undefeated #1 southeastern(?) team in the district semi.
Make a long story short.....webster goes to regional final(?).
You still have to play the game. Sometime the seeding can help, sometimes strength of schedule can help, sometime snow days can help, sometimes the pre-game meal can help, long bus rides etc, etc but in the end you have to play the game.

[bbjunky81]

Yes, I do.

Scott didn't have 18 and 14 against SW. He did have 14, and likely 8-11 boards. Also, the game was controlled by East from the 2nd quarter on. East led by 8-10 multiple times and Webster kept it close. They also hit like 21 of 23 free throws. I am not arguing that the Tartans aren't a better team with him, but it is a funny game. Case in point:

With Scott the Tartans lose at home to Western and at Eastern by 15. Without him they win at Western by 17 and at home vs. Eastern in a game where they led 8-15 throughout.

The Notre Dame game was not a 20 pt thrashing. ND jumped out on East, but it was a 4 point game with 2 minutes left. Not that it really matters. ND played well and won. The seeding should be based on merit and not hypotheticals.

The argument of the SOC I vs. the SOC I I is interesting. It shouldn't be this close, but it is. Both leagues have always had bottomed feeders. New Boston and Green vs. Northwest and West. West and NB have played the past few years and the games have been competitive. I will say that East, currently 4th in the SOC I is 2-0 vs. the SOC I I. Wins against the 4th and 5th placed Jeeps and Falcons.

Notre Dame vs East was far from close most of the entire game, and never gave up the lead. Led by 11-14 most of the game, East's multiple technical fouls just added 3 points at the end...

Wrong. I would call it being 4-6 points with a few minutes left, especially in that gym close. Not arguing that ND led the whole game, but the Tartans did make it close. Also the 3 techs led to more than 3 points at the end. They helped ND close the game on a 14-0 run. You won by 18....

As I said earlier, doesn't matter now. They'll meet again in a few weeks.

What about the 30 point thrashing from Clay this week at home? Where's the excuse for that one?

Spectator is gonna come in and say "well it was tied at tipoff" or maybe something like "the 3rd light from the left on the northeast side of the gym went out with 5:30 left in the 1st and that swung momentum, East was right in it up until that point."