Newboston at Clay 12-11-09

[Burg_Grad_77]

Congrats to Clay on their first win of the season.

[Waterdog]

Clay should of won by a big margin tonight but the Coach made bad decisions and some of the boys shot the ball every chance they had and werent justified in doing so. They did eek out a win.. but barely.
If things continue as is....It is going to be a long season for the Panthers. The sad thing is... with another Coach they might be in contention for the SOC.
Good Luck Panthers, I am a big fan.

[Doubleduece]

Seriously, what is going on with Clay? Are the expectations just too high? They got beat by 80 to 3 SOCII schools this past week, and have a nail-biter with NB tonight. It seems like people are putting them on a pedastal before they proved anything. Is Trainer really the problem or is Clay just not as good as the Clay community perceived? I think it may be the latter.

[my2cents]

Here is the stats for Clay from tonights game, some I kept, some from the radio.

CLAY 10 13 14 14 51
N. B. 4 11 16 16 47

BURCHETT 10
LAWSON 8
VALENTINE 7
BUSSLER 7
PORTER 7
DELOTTEL 5
KING 5
CASEMAN 2

Clay shot 19/50 for 38% 3 for 10 for 3 pts, and 16 for 40 for 2pt.
NB shot 12/58 for 21% 3 for 11 from 3ps, and 9 for 47 from 2pt range.
Clay lead in rebounds by a margin of 46 to 26 but committed 28 turnovers (their avg) to NB's 12.
NB scored 20 points from the foul line to Clays 6. That was what kept them in the game along with the horrible refs. Basically anything but a punch to the nose was allowed by NB, even the radio guys mentioned how physical it was getting. I heard them say at one point that NB had shot 27 foul shots to Clays 2.
Clay should have won this game by 20 or more points but the TO's just keep rolling on. They also don't seem to be able to create many TO's for their opponents. No traps or pressure on the ball. Shot selection was poor, and the stats sheets are going to show it. That is where coaching has to come in. I know the coach can't be blamed for everything but he has to find his go to players and leave them in the game. No one has a chance to get into any rythm the way he puts them in and out. Porter should have played a lot more than he did, he is proving to be the dominate big man. Lawson had a good game but is still letting players take the ball away from him after he rebounds. Bussler and Delottel need to stay in control, Burchette needs to be patient and wait for his shooting stroke to come back, Valentine needs to penetrate the lane more and shoot or dish off instead of giving the ball up at the top of the key.
I don't think Clay's fan were overrating the team this year, I think the team is not living up to their potential. I see too many kids trying to do too much. Everyone needs to settle down and play their role and start playing as a team and they can have a good season. If they continue to play like they did tonight, they will be no better than last years record. Good luck against Western next Friday on the road.

[live4sport]

I've seen clay twice and I think it's a combination of coaching and the community thinking too much of their team.

[art_vandelay]

Coaching usually isn't the cause of a team averaging 28 turnovers a game. That's almost one turnover per minute and you are not going to win many games that way. Unless that changes drastically, it's time for the Clay fans to dial down their expectations for this team.*

[a_c_m]

Congrats Panthers!

[yabbadabbadoo]

I was at the game and this years Clay team has a nice mix of big men and guards. They have jsut have to get the right mix of players on the floor and IMO that mix was Porter, Burchett, Bussler, Valentine and Delotell. This gave them a team that can run up and down the floor and play good pressure defense. Trainer doesn't let them get into any kind of rhythm. There was a few times in the first half where he only had one starter on the floor with 4 subs. You can't do that, especially when you are only about 6-7 deep. he could get away with that in college, but not in HS. It's almost like he wants to get everyone into every game, no matter the score.

Yes, the TO's did play a big factor and they need to work on that. Like was said above there are certain players right now that are not playing the roles they need to be playing. Valentine does need to take the ball to the hole more and create off of that. He can pull up for the jumper, take it on in and score or get fouled or dish it off if a defender comes to him. Bussler just had an off game but show up big late in the game. Burchett needs to concentrate on flashing to the lane and shooting that mid-range jumper. he is not a three point shooter. Can't really judge Delotells game seeing that he was playing against his old team, but did see some good flashes of good play from him. The technical was probably bs, but you have to learn how to control your emotions and jsut live with the call. Even though the refs were terrible(lot of charges by NB that were called blocks and at least three of them were legit charges) they made the call, so you deal with it and move on.

Another thing I noticed on offense was that Clay sets no picks to get guys open. There plays are mediocre at best, so yes they do need to work on that. Everything they get on the offense they have to creat theirselves because of no picks being set. The pick is a very vital part of the offensive scheme.

Stiil another thing that I haven't been able to figure out in the three years that Trainer has been there is WHY DON'T YOU HAVE YOUR TEAM COME OUT AFTER HALF AND WARMUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never, ever in my 35 years of watching basketball never seen a team not warm up after half. Just don't get it.


Good luck Clay the rest of the season. Work out some kinks, work on getting the TO's down and you can have an nice season.

[claypantherfan]

What really helped Clay was that Lawson and porter combined for 24 rebounds between the two which is a big amount

[Burg_Grad_77]

Stiil another thing that I haven't been able to figure out in the three years that Trainer has been there is WHY DON'T YOU HAVE YOUR TEAM COME OUT AFTER HALF AND WARMUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never, ever in my 35 years of watching basketball never seen a team not warm up after half. Just don't get it.

I've noticed that to in the games I've seen in the past 3 years. I don't understand why a coach wouldn't let them come out and warm up before the 2nd half. According to my brother whose son plays for the team it shows up in the stats the affects it has. He says you can go back and see where the 3rd quarter of games that Clay is cold shooting the ball and not as loose as they were in the first half and teams usually get a big advantage in the 3rd quarter on Clay. He said there have been games where Clay will have a decent lead at the half only to see it disappear in the 3rd or to be down by a small margin at the half only to see it balloon to a large lead in the 3rd quarter.

[live4sport]

I can't imagine what it would feel like to not get to shoot around a little before the second half. Back in the day if we were getting ripped by coach and stayed a little longer in the locker room it was a mad scramble for everyone to get some shots in before the 3rd. Wow--that is different.

[claygold1]

I think that the v for clay has a lot of talent but they dont know how to use it when its game time. I think the jv has done really good this year. The have played really well the past 4 games they have played.

well i think clay will be able to win but they have to play smart and quite turning the ball over.

Its not the coachs fault why their doing bad and not winning if the players would have actually came to the gym and worked over the summer instead of goofed of the whole time they would be 3-0 right now so the only reason y there doing bad is because the players ARE NOT DEDICATED and you can't blame the coach for that.

Most of the players played other sports like baseball and golf. So they couldnt go to open gyms like that.

Yeah except baseball is over in May. Now they was having golf and cross country and soccer games but not baseball. And i herd that coach T told the people that played other sports they didn't have to go but that all the people that was just siting at home doing nothing should go to the open gyms.

[callingtheshots]

Maybe someone needs to post the stats on most TO's. Been to most of the games and could bet that I would know the results. not one to name drop on kids like some of the others, but it's obvious. Clay needs to support the team, not bash them. From what I hear most of the players support Coach T, and that's what it takes. everyone has an off game, but some of the boys think they have to be the Star, that's what hurts Clay. Play As A Team!!!!!
'

[Waterdog]

You are right about JV . They are doing well. Their coach knows how to get the most out of his players.

[Ridgerunner1]

I agree the JV coach handles the team well. The kids listen to him and show him respect.

[yabbadabbadoo]

I still think that Trainer doesn't know how to coach HS kids. He was used to having 10-12 players on his bench who were all good players and he could sub in freely and not really miss a beat. He can't do that this year.

It's sad, but they do have some talent, it is just not being coached by the right person.

[Out of Bounds]

YABBA DOO........You really think this team is talented? I've seen them twice and the only thing I have seen is size. And the size isn't very agile. Good hands and touch, but not kids I would want running and pressing and trying to trap with. Guards aren't very good at handling pressure which equals to's. I don't know much about the coach, but sorry, I don't think they have a lot to work with. Every team in the league will be pressing them. I agree with a couple of other posters, the expectations seem to be a little too high.

[my2cents]

When you have a press break that doesn't work and you refuse to change it or try working on something different, of course every team will press them. They have talent, they have 3 juniors who lead the team in points, rebounds assist, last year and picked up two new players in Porter and Delottel, but as Yababab said, you have to realize how to get the most out of each kid. You can't assume that every kid can do everything, and that is the problem.
The past 2 years I heard the coach tell kids "good shot" on 3 pointers, one kid 2 years ago shot 12% from the 3 for the season, last year one kid shot 18%. I am sorry, if the other coach knows that a kid is shooting around 15% from the three and doesn't guard him, and your coach let's you shoot and say's "good shot" because he was open, then your simply being baited to shoot and that's not good coaching.
The coach keeps stats on his players, it's time he starts looking at them and assign them roles, and get them to play as a team instead of 5 individuals.

[yabbadabbadoo]

Yeah, they have talent as long as players start playing the role they need to be playing. You have players shooting three's that shouldn't be shooting them and you have players bringing the ball up the court that shouldn't be. They get in to big of a hurry when they bring the ball up the court which in turn leads to turnovers.

THey still struggle with getting the ball inbounds and that is because they have no real set play to do so. They haven't had one in the three years Trainer has been there. If a team is pressing you than you break that pas by passing the ball around it, not trying to dribble through it. Has he worked on a play for that. Doubt it!!!!!! When NB was making there run the other night, he just sat there. Never tried to calm them down, never called a timeout until NB had taken the lead.

[Out of Bounds]

I find it interesting that Clay doesn't have an out of bounds play. If you want I can draw you up 3 of them that I saw against Minfords press. And I pretty sure they didn't turn it over any when running these plays. I guess you don't see them running a double screen off the elbow to the strong side, then the screener slipping to the ball? You pretty much solidified what I thought you know.