Western pike 63 Clay 60 ... 12-18-09

[the toro loco]

hmmm clay by 10

[claypantherfan]

I think if clay wins this one it will turn around the season for them this year and will give them momentum going in to the rest of the season and being up there in the soc race

[Lightle04]

Final 63 to 60 WESTERN in a very tight game hats off to both teams they played hard.

[my2cents]

Tonights game was a classic example of what Clay fans have been complaining about for the past three years. It was a very close game and Clay was down 12 or 14 point throughout most of the contest but they managed to finally cut it to two points with 7.1 seconds and Western at the line shooting two foul shots. If they make both, it's basically over but if they miss one or both, Clay has time to set up a last shot to tie or win with a three. Clay has time to talk over what they wanted to do because they had a player foul out. Western hits the first foul shot and misses the second. Clay rebounds but the ball ends up in the centers hand, he has to bring it to half court and gets it over to a boy is doubled up on, the three point shooter has a kid face guarding him, so the ball goes back to the center and he has to shoot a desperation three from 10 feet beyond the arc. Now, what is the problem? Clay had a time out left! The coach tells the boys he's sorry he didn't call time out and set up a play. It would be bad enough if that was the only thing that didn't make sense tonight, but that is just the end of a long list.

Say what you want about the talent level of the players, but they are kids just like at every other school. They just aren't being given a chance to compete with the talent they have.

[claypantherfan]

In due respect the kid didnt know they had a time out till after words

[Burg_Grad_77]

Time for Trainer to go. He has proven over and over that he doesn't have a clue what he is doing. Maybe it's time for the players and the players parents to put their foot down and demand he be fired or Clay will continue to suffer through 5 or 6 win seasons when they have the talent to win much more. I'm not saying they could go undefeated or even win 15 or more games, but thier talent level is good enough for 10 to 12 wins a season and it's obvious this coach is never going to reach that number. It's not fair to the players, the parents, the fans, or the school to have to put up with constantly losing when they have the kids to produce wins if coached right. I was even told that at the half of the Minford game he told the kids he didn't know what to do about Minfords press. What coach worth a grain of salt would tell his players that he didn't have a clue how to combat an opponents defensive strategy. Whether he knew what to do or not, you don't tell your players that. Send the man packing!!!

[Burg_Grad_77]

In due respect the kid didnt know they had a time out till after words

It's not up to the kids to know if they had a timeout or not. That is the coachs responsibilty. A coach can call a timeout from the sidelines now and he knew he had one but didn't use it when it could have helped set up a last second play instead of just standing there watching his team struggle.

[claypantherfan]

In due respect the kid didnt know they had a time out till after words

It's not up to the kids to know if they had a timeout or not. That is the coachs responsibilty. A coach can call a timeout from the sidelines now and he knew he had one but didn't use it when it could have helped set up a last second play instead of just standing there watching his team struggle.

Burg grad , I completely agree with you on that

[my2cents]

In due respect the kid didnt know they had a time out till after words

The coach should have called time out or told the boys if a foul shot was missed to call time out immediately and then set up a play that would have given them a chance to get off a shot to tie the game instead of the helter skelter that took place. The players should not feel that they need to shoulder these losses themselves, I just don't think they are being given a chance. Was it the players fault that all three big men were set down at the same time while Western had their 6-7 and 6-5 boys in the game, getting put back after put back until they made their shots? Was it the players fault that both starting guards were set down and the non starting guard was left to bring the ball up the court 1 on 3 because that is how Clay breaks a press. That way when they get picked it's just an easy lay up for you opponenet. How many times have we seen that this year?

[Lightle04]

You guys are verry talented but I think you have the same problem that we had at western over the past couple years after white graduated. And that is a true point guard you have very,very,good guards long and skilled in the half court but not solid enough with the ball full court.

[my2cents]

The problem the guard has is the way they bring the ball up the court. It's one on one or one on two. Instead of leaving two boys back and having them pass the ball back and forth. With help if the ball gets picked you have someone to help defend, instead we just give up easy lay-ups. Probably 6 of them last night. When the starting guard is out the coach should at least leave two boys back to bring the ball up, but it's the same thing, over and over and he just doesn't see it.

[halftime]

Does anyone know the stats like turnovers and stuff?

[my2cents]

I don't have all the stats, I quit counting Clay's TO's at around 20, but they probably had few more than that. Western had several but not as many as Clay. Clay's press is very ineffective. The man to man press usually just produced lay ups for the opponents, and the trapping press they ran last night has never actually trapped anybody. Rebounds were about even but Western might have had an edge due to the times that Clay had all three big men down while Western had their 6'7" and 6'5" boys in and got most of the rebounds in those periods.

Scorers for Clay are as follows, and it should be mentioned that Burchett good game, hitting most his shots and took good shot selection.

BURCHETT - 19
VALENTINE - 11
BUSSLER - 11
DELOTELL - 6
PORTER - 6
GRAHAM - 3
LAWSON - 2
CASEMAN - 2
DUDUIT - 1

[claypantherfan]

I think clay ended up with around 30 turn overs last night but some how only managed to loose by 3 so if they would cut back they would be winning by like 10 or so imo

[my2cents]

I watched my tape and counted 19 TO's which is what we had written down, so that is about right. Clay shot 20 for 56. Burchett shot 5 for 8 on the night and hit well from the foul line. Valentine went 5 - 12, 0 - 5 in the first half and 5 for 7 in the second. Porter hit 3 for 6 with 10 rebounds, Lawson had 7 rebounds but his only bucket came from a shot from the foul line. Bussler shot 3 for 15, but was able to draw some fouls and hit his free throws. Delotell shot 1 for 3 and had some problems bringing the ball up the court, but in his defense, he should not be left in the backcourt one on one or one on two. Clays team would run up court and as soon as Western seen the guard by himself in the back court a second defender would run back and with 2 on 1, steal the ball and lay it in. I counted 5 on the tape, but they missed the wide open lay up at the end of the half. Clay's press plays created zero turnovers.
Talent wise, Clay seemed to be a better team, but the score didn't show it.

[WWH]

Time for Trainer to go. He has proven over and over that he doesn't have a clue what he is doing. Maybe it's time for the players and the players parents to put their foot down and demand he be fired or Clay will continue to suffer through 5 or 6 win seasons when they have the talent to win much more. I'm not saying they could go undefeated or even win 15 or more games, but thier talent level is good enough for 10 to 12 wins a season and it's obvious this coach is never going to reach that number. It's not fair to the players, the parents, the fans, or the school to have to put up with constantly losing when they have the kids to produce wins if coached right. I was even told that at the half of the Minford game he told the kids he didn't know what to do about Minfords press. What coach worth a grain of salt would tell his players that he didn't have a clue how to combat an opponents defensive strategy. Whether he knew what to do or not, you don't tell your players that. Send the man packing!!!

Dude, you're a real piece of work !!! Getting on here and asking people to fire a coach. Why don't you go get a rope and lead the charge. You've got a big mouth. What's a matter, little Johnny not playing enough ??? "Put their foot down and demand he be fired", who do you think you are ??? You are what's wrong with todays world !!! Go back to your job cleaning the bathrooms at McDonalds.

[my2cents]

WWH, I don't think anyone has said anything about "playing time". So I don't know where that is even coming from. And your quote...."You're what's wrong with today world", now that is funny. So what is wrong with the world today is that people don't sit back and tolerate someone who is failing to do the job they are paid for. I think that a HS coach is hired to win basketball games, or at least show that he has the knowledge of how to win. You usually get a pass on your first season, since it's isn't consdered "your team". Your second year, you should be producing results and making adjustments and your third year should be your last if you aren't producing results. From what I have seen, nothing has changed since year one. So if nothing has changed from the first year, from last year, and so far, nothing has changed from this year, what would you suggest we do? I think the parents and fans (the few that are still coming to games) have been more than patient.

[Burg_Grad_77]

Dude, you're a real piece of work !!! Getting on here and asking people to fire a coach. Why don't you go get a rope and lead the charge. You've got a big mouth. What's a matter, little Johnny not playing enough ??? "Put their foot down and demand he be fired", who do you think you are ??? You are what's wrong with todays world !!! Go back to your job cleaning the bathrooms at McDonalds.

Let's see here. We'll go through each one of your statements one by one.

Dude, you're a real piece of work !!!

Yes I am. Since I'm a human being then I do consider my self a real piece of work.

Getting on here and asking people to fire a coach. Why don't you go get a rope and lead the charge

Well, something needs to be done. This is his third year as head coach and he still doesn't act like he has a clue as to what is going on. I can see him struggling his first season there as he is getting to know the kids, even though that first year he had a huge 6'8" kid that he didn't utilize right. With a kid as big as Keaton was he should have been a force in the paint against much smaller kids, but Trainer decides he's going to run a pass and weave offense and never pounded the ball inside to the big man even when he had a big height advantage. Instead he tried to get the kids to pass the ball around the perimeter and take 3 pt shots which usually led to turning the ball over. The only way Keaton scored was by getting the rebound and sticking it back in.

His second year was no better. He has no set plays that I can see from the games I have seen. It basically looked like the kids were playing playground ball with whoever had the ball just chucked up a shot. They didn't set any picks to get someone open for the shot at all. They had no discernable inbounds play that cost them numerous 5 second calls and he forbid his players from calling a timeout if they couldn't get the ball in bounds, but yet he wouldn't call one either so they just turned the ball over and it cost them a few games in the process. The worst part is this is his third year and from what I can see it hasn't gotten any better.

You've got a big mouth.

Actually my mouth is normal size, thank you. Though I have been know to get my foot in there a few times over the years.

What's a matter, little Johnny not playing enough ???

Actually, my nephew is on the team and he is a starter and gets plenty of playing time, so wrong answer Clyde.

Put their foot down and demand he be fired", who do you think you are ???

I am someone who would like to see the kids from Clay have at least a fighting chance at winning some games and this coach just isn't the man to get that done. If you go to Clays web site and check out the coachs records from the past you will see that after Arch Justice left and coach that had at least 2 years in a row of losing records was replaced. Trainer has had his two and is working on his third, so how many will it take before he is gone and Clay can try to get out of the bowels of the SOCI.

You are what's wrong with todays world !!!

No, what's wrong with todays world is people like you who are willing to set back and watch a coach drag a school down to the depths of dispair by having losing season after losing season. It is already affecting the kids and the community. They are tired of losing and want something done about it.

Go back to your job cleaning the bathrooms at McDonalds.

Actually I was just promoted last week and now get to ask you if you would like fries with that. Your question should be, did I wash my hands after cleaning those toilets before I served you those fries?

[WWH]

Dude, you're a real piece of work !!! Getting on here and asking people to fire a coach. Why don't you go get a rope and lead the charge. You've got a big mouth. What's a matter, little Johnny not playing enough ??? "Put their foot down and demand he be fired", who do you think you are ??? You are what's wrong with todays world !!! Go back to your job cleaning the bathrooms at McDonalds.

Let's see here. We'll go through each one of your statements one by one.

Dude, you're a real piece of work !!!

Yes I am. Since I'm a human being then I do consider my self a real piece of work.

Getting on here and asking people to fire a coach. Why don't you go get a rope and lead the charge

Well, something needs to be done. This is his third year as head coach and he still doesn't act like he has a clue as to what is going on. I can see him struggling his first season there as he is getting to know the kids, even though that first year he had a huge 6'8" kid that he didn't utilize right. With a kid as big as Keaton was he should have been a force in the paint against much smaller kids, but Trainer decides he's going to run a pass and weave offense and never pounded the ball inside to the big man even when he had a big height advantage. Instead he tried to get the kids to pass the ball around the perimeter and take 3 pt shots which usually led to turning the ball over. The only way Keaton scored was by getting the rebound and sticking it back in.

His second year was no better. He has no set plays that I can see from the games I have seen. It basically looked like the kids were playing playground ball with whoever had the ball just chucked up a shot. They didn't set any picks to get someone open for the shot at all. They had no discernable inbounds play that cost them numerous 5 second calls and he forbid his players from calling a timeout if they couldn't get the ball in bounds, but yet he wouldn't call one either so they just turned the ball over and it cost them a few games in the process. The worst part is this is his third year and from what I can see it hasn't gotten any better.

You've got a big mouth.

Actually my mouth is normal size, thank you. Though I have been know to get my foot in there a few times over the years.

What's a matter, little Johnny not playing enough ???

Actually, my nephew is on the team and he is a starter and gets plenty of playing time, so wrong answer Clyde.

Put their foot down and demand he be fired", who do you think you are ???

I am someone who would like to see the kids from Clay have at least a fighting chance at winning some games and this coach just isn't the man to get that done. If you go to Clays web site and check out the coachs records from the past you will see that after Arch Justice left and coach that had at least 2 years in a row of losing records was replaced. Trainer has had his two and is working on his third, so how many will it take before he is gone and Clay can try to get out of the bowels of the SOCI.

You are what's wrong with todays world !!!

No, what's wrong with todays world is people like you who are willing to set back and watch a coach drag a school down to the depths of dispair by having losing season after losing season. It is already affecting the kids and the community. They are tired of losing and want something done about it.

Go back to your job cleaning the bathrooms at McDonalds.

Actually I was just promoted last week and now get to ask you if you would like fries with that. Your question should be, did I wash my hands after cleaning those toilets before I served you those fries?

Lets stick to the simple facts: You have way to much time on your hands and it's no surprise that you have a relative on the team !!!

PS: I don't eat at McDonalds, dude.

[my2cents]

WWH, we are still waiting for your insigtht on what should be done at Clay. Continue to lose? Change coaches? Copmletely rehaul the offensive and defensive plays that haven't worked for 3 years. You must have an answer since you are so sure it isn't the coach. Or do you just want to come on a basketaball opinion page and make "bathroom" humour. That helps alot!