Western pike 63 Clay 60 ... 12-18-09

[ManitouDan]

you could go back to last year and see the same type comments from different people. Mine was " I hope he signed a long term deal " LOL

[baller87]

My hats off to WESTERN, They played a good game.Western defence was a facture in the win.I beleive the coach is doing a good job with the boy,to bad they didnt have him last year.

[yabbadabbadoo]

Like what has been said the last three years, Trainer was used to coaching college players and it is a HUGE difference, talent wise between the levels. Most college age players are wise enough out on nthe court that they can handle the tough situations. You are talking about HS kids who need some guidance. I think the big red flag that he put out was when he was hired he made the statement he didn't know how he was going to be able to coach at the HS level and at a small school without "inner city kids" to play for him. WOW!!!!! and he was still hired. Go figure.


I have been to a few games over his three years at Clay and his teams are boring to watch. they have no set offense and like was said, they don't know how to run a press or for that matter, beat one. One player can't dribble through a press. The other teams eventually catch up to what is going on, trap the player in the backcourt and then shoot layups after the steal. Is it bad coaching, sure it is. He has to set some plays up that they can run to keep themselves out of those situations. He hasn't proven to anyone yet that he can coach, because he just doesn't do it. I've watched him let teams go on 15-0 runs before he calls a timeout. I listened to the Burg-Waverly game on the radio and Coach Barrick called two timeouts within about a three minute timespan when it looked like Waverly was about to pull away. Both times the Burg came out and made a little run to get back in the game. Bottomline is that Trainer doesn't know how to utilize his timeouts. He doesn't know when to call them and how they can be a huge tool in stopping the other teams run. It's a little thing called stopping there momentum

IMO there is a good enough coach sitting on the bench in Arnold King. I think he would do a fine job.

[Jake Lane]

I like coach Trainer, but don't understand everything he does. I think coach King really knows what he's doing, and so does coach Compton. I don't want to see coach T go, but if he does, what does Clay do?

[WWH]

Like what has been said the last three years, Trainer was used to coaching college players and it is a HUGE difference, talent wise between the levels. Most college age players are wise enough out on nthe court that they can handle the tough situations. You are talking about HS kids who need some guidance. I think the big red flag that he put out was when he was hired he made the statement he didn't know how he was going to be able to coach at the HS level and at a small school without "inner city kids" to play for him. WOW!!!!! and he was still hired. Go figure.


I have been to a few games over his three years at Clay and his teams are boring to watch. they have no set offense and like was said, they don't know how to run a press or for that matter, beat one. One player can't dribble through a press. The other teams eventually catch up to what is going on, trap the player in the backcourt and then shoot layups after the steal. Is it bad coaching, sure it is. He has to set some plays up that they can run to keep themselves out of those situations. He hasn't proven to anyone yet that he can coach, because he just doesn't do it. I've watched him let teams go on 15-0 runs before he calls a timeout. I listened to the Burg-Waverly game on the radio and Coach Barrick called two timeouts within about a three minute timespan when it looked like Waverly was about to pull away. Both times the Burg came out and made a little run to get back in the game. Bottomline is that Trainer doesn't know how to utilize his timeouts. He doesn't know when to call them and how they can be a huge tool in stopping the other teams run. It's a little thing called stopping there momentum

IMO there is a good enough coach sitting on the bench in Arnold King. I think he would do a fine job.

So, let me get this straight. Not only do you want to fire the coach, you want to name his replacement. And, this same person is the asst. to the person you want fired. Is it any wonder Clay can't win basketball games. I can't even imagine the conversations that must go on at the dinner table. You deserve everything your getting. Phil Jackson couldn't win at Clay. Good luck.

[my2cents]

Another insightful and informative post by WWH. Way to go man, you seem to keep telling everyone to back off of Coach T, yet you don't have a clue about what is wrong, except to say it's the kids. Very Nice.

Like Manitou Dan said, the same things were being said last year, and the year before, though I thought his first year he should have got a free pass. Of course MD and the other teams fans hope he has a long term contract. That's a win in their schedule. Clay has become the laughing stock of the SOCI. I hear it everyday from other coaches, parents of players of other teams, even people from outside our area come up and ask me what the H#@! is going on. I guess I should tell them everything is just fine, just at WWH. We just have stupid kids who can't play ball!

PS. I'll see your Phil Jackson comment and trump you with "Clay couldn't win with their current offense, defense with Kobe Bryant.

[Burg_Grad_77]

Lets stick to the simple facts: You have way to much time on your hands and it's no surprise that you have a relative on the team !!!

PS: I don't eat at McDonalds, dude.

Yes, lets do stick to the facts. The fact is that you are obviously either a freind or relative of the coach or a fan that is completely oblivious to how a basketball team should operate. My2cents asked you just what the team should actually do to correct the situation if you think replacing the coach isn't the answer, so let's hear it "Oh Wise One". What's your answer????

[my2cents]

I like coach Trainer, but don't understand everything he does. I think coach King really knows what he's doing, and so does coach Compton. I don't want to see coach T go, but if he does, what does Clay do?

They move on an try something different. Don't get me wrong, Coach T is probably the nicest guy you'll ever meet, but his refusal to change his game plan is killing the Basketball program. It's not the boys, it's his philoshpy that everyone can dribble, everyone can shoot, everyone has to create their own shot, the statement that "He doesn't believe in zones" the list goes on and on.

We all hoped that after two years of ineffecitiveness he would wake up and realize he is not coaching College players, and learn how to utilize the skills that each boy has, but nothing has changed from day one. If you remember the interview when he was hired, he said he was going to run a transistion game. He hadn't even met the team yet. That is why the won 2 games in his first year and Evan Keaton was completely wasted as a big man.

The bottom line is the best thing that could happen now, since it is obvious that he is never going to change his philosphy and style of coaching, is that he step down. We don't need Clay to turn into a Franklin Furnace situation.

[WWH]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just one simple question, with the lack of success and the crap that you are writing, what is it that a kid on this team is suppose to think or do. One thing is for sure, he won't play harder, you've already given him an excuse not too. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. What lesson are you teaching ???

[Jake Lane]

I just want to see them win! It always seems to me that our boys get pushed around by stronger athletes. Doesn't Clay have a weight lifting area?

[callingtheshots]

You people are killing me, all this talk about the coach, the players, and the talent. Clay has the talent, they just have to utilize it. when you have players that TO the ball everytime they bring it down the court, then there is a problem. Find someone else to bring the ball down!!! It's time for a change for someone else to bring the ball down. Who' would you pick? Also, When you have a player that is 3 for 15 (which was posted by my2cents) that just proves that the game is not being played as a team. Back off till you get your game back. It is not all the coaches fault, the TO's are killing Clay. if you watch the tapes, you will see who has the most TO's. IMO if the players can't produce, then sit them out!

[my2cents]

You people are killing me, all this talk about the coach, the players, and the talent. Clay has the talent, they just have to utilize it. when you have players that TO the ball everytime they bring it down the court, then there is a problem. Find someone else to bring the ball down!!! It's time for a change for someone else to bring the ball down. Who' would you pick? Also, When you have a player that is 3 for 15 (which was posted by my2cents) that just proves that the game is not being played as a team. Back off till you get your game back. It is not all the coaches fault, the TO's are killing Clay. if you watch the tapes, you will see who has the most TO's. IMO if the players can't produce, then sit them out!

Your statement "Clay has the talent, they just need to utilize it" is funny since you follow that up with saying it's not the coaches fault. If they have the talent, then who do you think is responsible for utilizing it?

We don't need to watch the tapes to see who has the TO's. I have the stats, and of course the guards are going to have the most because they are the ones bringing the ball down the floor. I can't believe that everyone on here keeps saying it's the kids fault they have so many TO's. If that is the case, why doesn't every team have 28 TO's a game. Are Clay's kids just that bad, in the past three years, and every other school just seems to have great ball handlers? Not the case, what is happening is the Coach T's belief that any kid can bring the ball down by himself, 1 on 1, or 1 on 3. His game plan doesn't involve 2 players passing the ball back and forth bringing the ball down the court. They have no clue how to break a press, and that also falls on the coach.
And for the 3 for 15, that is encouraged by the Coach. He doesn't care what your percentage of shooting is, as long as you shoot. You are starting to see the problems we are dealing with. He doesn't sit anyone out for messing up. I can't tell you how many times last year a kid would mess up royal and sit out 1 minute and come right back in.
So as for backing off, we have done that for 2 years and nothing changed. This years team had the chance to win 12 to 15 games, but that isn't going to happen with the current game plan.

[my2cents]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just one simple question, with the lack of success and the crap that you are writing, what is it that a kid on this team is suppose to think or do. One thing is for sure, he won't play harder, you've already given him an excuse not too. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. What lesson are you teaching ???

What lesson does any team get when a coach with a losing record gets replaced. I guess the lesson would be the "Losing in not acceptable". Not a bad life lesson to learn. If you hired to do a job, you best do it well. After all WWH, it's about the kids learning life's lessons, and some of them aren't always pleasant.

[WWH]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just one simple question, with the lack of success and the crap that you are writing, what is it that a kid on this team is suppose to think or do. One thing is for sure, he won't play harder, you've already given him an excuse not too. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. What lesson are you teaching ???

What lesson does any team get when a coach with a losing record gets replaced. I guess the lesson would be the "Losing in not acceptable". Not a bad life lesson to learn. If you hired to do a job, you best do it well. After all WWH, it's about the kids learning life's lessons, and some of them aren't always pleasant.

Why not, you can't fire the players !!! I have a better idea, let the kids play and the coach coach. The lesson is, you don't always get what you want. Is there more I can do? Or, do I blame others? It's all about how people react to things. Ask yourself, are you helping or hurting? Here's a clue, your not helping.

[WWH]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

btw, learning how to handle defeat as well as handling success is far more important than your final record. I've seen winners that were clueless and losers that were doing it the right way. If you would think for the minute, I'm sure you have too.

[yabbadabbadoo]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just one simple question, with the lack of success and the crap that you are writing, what is it that a kid on this team is suppose to think or do. One thing is for sure, he won't play harder, you've already given him an excuse not too. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. What lesson are you teaching ???

What lesson does any team get when a coach with a losing record gets replaced. I guess the lesson would be the "Losing in not acceptable". Not a bad life lesson to learn. If you hired to do a job, you best do it well. After all WWH, it's about the kids learning life's lessons, and some of them aren't always pleasant.

Why not, you can't fire the players !!! I have a better idea, let the kids play and the coach coach. The lesson is, you don't always get what you want. Is there more I can do? Or, do I blame others? It's all about how people react to things. Ask yourself, are you helping or hurting? Here's a clue, your not helping.

Ok, so when is the coach going to start coaching because I haven't seen it yet. A good coach would have called a timeout the other night to set up a play at the end of the game. A good coach wouldn't tell his players he doesn't know how to break the other teams press. A good coach would put together an offense that fits his team, not the mentality that whoever has the ball bring it up the floor or whoever is open, take the shot.

The bottomline is that the people of Clay were expecting some good things out of Coach T, being he was coming from a college job. They thought his vast knowledge of the game would help them win some games. Well his record speaks for that and they haven't gotten the coaching out of him they expected. Yeah, there was some high expectations put on this team and IMO, rightfully so. They had alot of nice players coming back and they had a couple of nice transfers come into the program. Granted, they started out the season against three SOC II schools, but they were in no way, shape or form even remotely close to being ready to play in any of those three games and that is entirely the coaches fault. It doesn't matter who the opponent is, if you walk out on that floor unprepared and already thinkg you are goling to lose, you probably will.

[my2cents]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

btw, learning how to handle defeat as well as handling success is far more important than your final record. I've seen winners that were clueless and losers that were doing it the right way. If you would think for the minute, I'm sure you have too.

WWH, your just clueless. You haven't made one single comment about what is right or what is wrong with the team. Your only point has been don't criticize the coach. According to your opinion, there should never be a coaching change at any school.
As for winning and losing, we are used to that at Clay. Being one of the samller schools in the area, Clay is going to have it's share of losses. No one likes to lose but we can deal with the losses if we were being competetive. The real rub here is the quality of the coaching, or lack of it, and his refusal to accept that what he has been trying for the past three years isnt' working. You are new on here, so you haven't seen this debate for the 2 seasons. The overall opinion was, give him some time and he will make the adjustments to HS basketball, but it hasn't happened. So the "give him time" portion of his job is up.
They have 2 weeks over Christmas, let's see what adjustments he makes to correct the problems they had in the first 5 games.

[countyhobo]

BRING WARD BACK!!!!!!!!!!

[my2cents]

Here is why Coach T should have called time out and set up a play when he had the ball at halfcourt and about 5 seconds left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYha1gWqbL0

[Eaglesnest]

BRING WARD BACK!!!!!!!!!!

How low do you want the Panther program to fall?