Wheelersburg @ Portsmouth week 3

[biggdowgg]

siderman,,,I go to just about all of the 9th grade games,as I have a family member on there,,and I can not think of ANY of them that arent freshmen...maybe I am missing something?

but I can tell you one thing...I do know that the ones hat make this team as good as they are....are indeed freshmen... 8)

[Archie]

Discipline, community/parent involvement, teamwork, coaching, and the drive to win are what set these teams apart...so much talk about the coaching, but when it comes down to it, its the players' responsibility to step up and win ballgames...even with a bad coach, the players are the ones who had five turnovers, right? Now I'm sure I'm going to get bashed by all the parents whose kids' poop don't stink, but the players are the ones who must have the discipline to fill their role and to not blame someone else when something goes wrong, the teamwork to push through the adversity of bad conditions on the field and on the sidelines instead of bickering amongst themselves or once again blaming others, and the drive to win....Portsmouth had the talent, but like every other year, the players lacked discipline and drive, and when faced with adversity crumbled....blame the coach, but he's not the one on the field playing....

that said Congrats BURG and keep it up next week!!!

Another great post, I’m glad some people actually get it. At some point you have to be responsible for yourself. Clifford isn’t the one fumbling balls, missing tackles, missing blocks and just generally not being prepared each week. I.E. I don’t think they read their scouting reports.

Also I’m glad that someone else realizes what a difference it makes to have community/parent involvement.

As usual, you're the only one that actually "gets it" lol

[SPAMONY]

I don't even know if I wanna get in this but here goes.

I thought Portsmouth would beat Wheelersburg because they do have talent in the so called "skill" positions. If they can hold their own in the trenches they can play with any team around here, and from what I had read, Burg was down in the trenches as well compared to normal burg teams. They obviously lost the trenches battle because they couldn't run it and they couldn't stop the run. So they lost.

What alot of people just can't comprehend is the game is won and lost on the line of scrimmage. Size, agility, and aggresiveness, from your lines are just as or more important than the "skill" positions. It is a skill. Until Portsmouth can get dedication from their big guys in the offseason, they will struggle to beat any of the good physical teams they play. Red mentioned the younger grades. I've seen them all. They win from pee-wee to junior high to freshman because it is a different game. Pitch it to their "athletes" and watch them run. Doesn't work at the varsity level of high school. Basically all the way up they play _uss ball.

Portsmouth beat West in 7th, 8th, and 9th this year (although I was told several weren't freshmen, but thats another story). They have more speed and athleticism in those grades. But I'll bet you when they get to varsity, it looks more like the last 2 years because we take pride in other aspects of football besides the "skill" positions.

Great post siderman,
I can’t agree with you anymore then I do. I would much rather have a great line and average backs than the other way around. It all starts up front; if you can’t control the line of scrimmage it doesn’t matter what scheme you run you will not be successful.
From 97-2002 PHS had some pretty solid lines that don’t get the credit they deserve, because we also had such good backs. What people don’t remember are the times when JoJo was hurt in 99, and we were so hurting for backs we moved Johna Booker to the backfield, and he was successful thanks to a great line in front of him. In 2002 when Bolden went down and the line got Tyler Clifford to be a hundred yards against a D1 team, and was able get another sophomore in Andrew Newman to several good games as well in Bolden’s absence.
The same was true for the defensive lines, when PHS had really good defenses; they were built on very good guys up front. This is true from 99-2002, 2004, and 2007. They may not have always been big, but they were always hardnosed fast and strong. That’s what made all those defenses.
Why are the lines different now? Only things that are different is that Hickman left after the 2001 season, and Joe Albrecht quit coaching a few years back to take the A.D. job. Clifford and Newsom were both very involved with the lines all those years so what is it? How do we remedy this? Is it something we can fix or do we just not have the guys to stick out there right now?

Hey I am not picking on you Trojan you are one of my favorite posters on here. But, there have been a dump truck load of excuses over the last few years as to why Ptown is losing. Skill players are born you either get from god or you dont. Not to say you cant play skill spots without talent but its few and far between to see. Linemen are developed at the high school level. There are some really good 200lbs or less linemen in high school. Coaches have to develope a line from what they have every other school seems to be able to do that. Poor line play is 90% coaching problems 10% personel. Thats Ptowns biggest problem along with poor tackling techniques. Is it the kids fault they dont know how to tackle properly? No, it's coaching or lack there of

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

OK first of all I’m going to address the tackling issue. Did teams in 97-02 know how to tackle? Did teams in 04, 07, know how to tackle? Are Clifford and Burke teaching something different then they taught then? I find it hard to believe that they are. Obviously they aren’t happy with what’s happening either but I’m sure they are still teaching them what they have always taught that worked for years. Why is it not working now then is what we need to ask? The only thing that I can think is different is that the Pee Wee systems most of our kids come from is different than it used to be. Before we had several teams in town that allow more kids to play and get more guys experience as to how to tackle at a young age. I just don’t understand why guys think they would all the sudden change the way we teach kids to tackle, that absurd. I’m sure they still do the same tackling drills to start every practice that we did when I was in school and the same drills they did when you were in school. So what do they need to do to fix the tackling?
Where do we get the statistic that poor line play is 90% coaching? That can’t be farther from the truth. Coaching is more about the Billys and Joes then it is about the X’s and O’s. No you don’t have to be a huge big guy to play offensive line well, but it will make it a lot easier. You never want to stick a team full of small guys out on the line. When we have had good lines they were good because they weren’t just big but because of their athleticism. Big strong fast and even smart guys, are how we get good lines. Right now 11th and 12th grade linemen who it isn’t their first year of every playing and above 210 pounds we have 2 guys. Two guys above 210 with any experience and size. That’s ridiculous. In comparison West has 9, or more than 4 times the amount we have. I don’t care who the coach is you can’t coach kids to be 6’4 and 280 pounds. Even Wheelersburg who is incredible young this year has 5 guys that are 11th or 12th grade that are above 210.

Now we will address the defensive line, which has been improved this year in my opinion. Size is not as important to the defensive line as long as these guys have speed and strength. 2000 Dustin Pendleton was the division 3 defensive player of the year, playing defensive tackle and I doubt he weighed 180 pounds, but he benched over 400 pounds, and I would guess ran about a 4.7 or better 40. The same can be said for the guys on other d lines from the playoff years, we can make small guys work here as long as they are quick and strong.

[Bleeding Red]

I dont think they all have to be "big". Being "big" doesnt mean they will be good blockers, tacklers, etc.

Ridgewood in 2009 didnt have a big line. They were actually lanky. But they were strong and quick. Fundamentally blocked very well. They were a very solid tackling team.

What it boiled down to was they EXECUTED well. If they are being taught and wont do it, that is a different topic all together. But if that is the case, why are they on the field to begin with? Heck play the underclassmen and take your lumps now to be better later.

[noles_fan]

[/quote]

OK first of all I’m going to address the tackling issue. Did teams in 97-02 know how to tackle? Did teams in 04, 07, know how to tackle? Are Clifford and Burke teaching something different then they taught then? I find it hard to believe that they are. Obviously they aren’t happy with what’s happening either but I’m sure they are still teaching them what they have always taught that worked for years. Why is it not working now then is what we need to ask? The only thing that I can think is different is that the Pee Wee systems most of our kids come from is different than it used to be. Before we had several teams in town that allow more kids to play and get more guys experience as to how to tackle at a young age. I just don’t understand why guys think they would all the sudden change the way we teach kids to tackle, that absurd. I’m sure they still do the same tackling drills to start every practice that we did when I was in school and the same drills they did when you were in school. So what do they need to do to fix the tackling?
Where do we get the statistic that poor line play is 90% coaching? That can’t be farther from the truth. Coaching is more about the Billys and Joes then it is about the X’s and O’s. No you don’t have to be a huge big guy to play offensive line well, but it will make it a lot easier. You never want to stick a team full of small guys out on the line. When we have had good lines they were good because they weren’t just big but because of their athleticism. Big strong fast and even smart guys, are how we get good lines. Right now 11th and 12th grade linemen who it isn’t their first year of every playing and above 210 pounds we have 2 guys. Two guys above 210 with any experience and size. That’s ridiculous. In comparison West has 9, or more than 4 times the amount we have. I don’t care who the coach is you can’t coach kids to be 6’4 and 280 pounds. Even Wheelersburg who is incredible young this year has 5 guys that are 11th or 12th grade that are above 210.

Now we will address the defensive line, which has been improved this year in my opinion. Size is not as important to the defensive line as long as these guys have speed and strength. 2000 Dustin Pendleton was the division 3 defensive player of the year, playing defensive tackle and I doubt he weighed 180 pounds, but he benched over 400 pounds, and I would guess ran about a 4.7 or better 40. The same can be said for the guys on other d lines from the playoff years, we can make small guys work here as long as they are quick and strong.

That is one of the craziest things I've heard. When I was in High School our line had 1 guy over 6'1" and only 1 guy over 220lbs. and they weren't the same guy. I would put that line up against any line that has played since. The will to win and succeed trumps being big. I would
take 5 guys who are under sized but are willing to do the right thing than than 5 guy 6'4" 280. The one thing you forgot to mention that you can't coach is heart.

[Archie]

If you read what I posted, I said “ no you don’t have to be huge to play offensive line well, but it makes it a lot easier”. Right now we don’t have a lot of experience or athleticism on the line, then couple that with being small and it is a recipe for disaster. The boys have a will to win as you put it, but if the guy across has that same will but is bigger and more athletic, sorry he will still win.
Once again what does everyone think Clifford and the staff does at practice? Do you guys think they teach them wrong technique? Don’t teach at all and just scrimmage all day or what? I assure you they teach the same things they have always taught that, won us all those games, gave us great defenses, and great lines. So what’s the difference? Don’t just criticize them and my post unless you can tell me what is wrong with what I’m saying and what it is that they are doing wrong. Please tell me what needs to be done, and be specific i.e. what drills how much time and when we need to do them. DON’T COME BACK WITH GET RID OF THEM. That’s not a good answer, to me

So keeping them is "THE ANSWER"?

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Please answer my questions first, so we know what everyone thinks the problem is. We must first identify the problem before we can find a solution.

[yabbadabbadoo]

I know this. If Whitley would have still been at Burg, they would have utilized him more and got the ball into his hands. He is a playmaker with great hands and speed to burn. He caught one pass in the game and it was for 24 yards and a TD. He needs to get more touches. Set him up with some screen passes.

Ptown's offense is basically just send the recievers on the fly and hope that Jordan can get them the long ball that they turn into a TD. They don't need to do that. They just need to get the ball into there receivers hands and let them do the rest.

[Ptown Playmaker]

I agree yabba.......Whitley was lined up in the slot a majority of the game......he was either covered by Burg's DE or safety that was 10-12 yards off line of scrimmage.......didn't understand how the staff didn't take notice and get the ball in his hands......??

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

We ran a total of 41 offensive plays, Zaide touched 10 total times with 9 rushes and 1 catch which means Zaide got the ball in his hands 24.39 percent of the time. We’re getting Zaide the ball a pretty good amount, but I can respect the idea, and I think he could handle some more touches. Personally I thought that we were trying to get him the ball in different situations last week, with him lining up as HB more and running the ball more. Maybe this was just do to the absents of Charles, Weberbrook , and during the game Edwards. I will also say that it seems like Mason tries to force the ball to Wayne a lot, I personally still think this is due to him not having time to look through his progression .
Screens plays again rely on good line play. The line must be able to first sell the screen well to sucker the defense in. Then get out and get a block on the more athletic guys on the defense. I saw us try it in the scrimmages a few times and the line didn’t look good on them, other than one TE screen. I don’t think our line can do the bubble screen, but if we can not telegraph it I think a middle screen with Zaide coming from the slot might be effective.
Thanks guys for being specific.

[Burg#1]

I thought the coaches had a great game plan with containing Zaide- if you noticed the DE sliding out to contain Zaide he did a great job as the team did also in containing the play makers for PHS. At halftime the coaches adjusted well for the Burg and PHS did not-

[Ptown Playmaker]

I thought the coaches had a great game plan with containing Zaide- if you noticed the DE sliding out to contain Zaide he did a great job as the team did also in containing the play makers for PHS. At halftime the coaches adjusted well for the Burg and PHS did not-

agree....Burg did adjust well during the game......and as you pointed out, even though your DE's are athletic and good players, DE's covering Zaide is a match up that should have favored us......didn't really didn't look at throwing the ball his way all night.