6th Annual Debate about PowerCleans and Football

[jiveturkey]

Lets get it started....

[Binary]

A great coach that I have the honor of knowing very well invented what is called Kattle Ball training. According to him this training is much better for football than anything else known to man. The only concerns about this type of training has been expressed by basketball coaches of all people. Seems some athletes that partake in this revolutionary program become so adept at football that they no longer want to spend hours on end shooting foul shots and jump shots in the gym day after day. They would rather train to become better athletes than just specialize in one aspect of one sport. If you want to learn more you may have to wait till things get sorted out over in the land of the Eagle before he can give you a clinic. More to come on this...

Wonder if she is talking about Wings?

[I smell bad]

Someone once told me that power cleans are bad for your wrists. I think it was the same guy that said strength training makes you slower, and running a mile every day makes you faster. He also liked to have his players do plyometrics for conditioning. He spoke to a group of young athletes one time and informed them that lifting weights messes up your shot. A real cutting edge coach he was.

[KC Java]

I though he was using "pylometrics"?

[KC Java]

Pylos are what helped the russians win the gold medal that one year in the olympics....

OK OK but what about cleans? and football? this sounds like a basketball comment....

[I smell bad]

Pylos are what helped the russians win the gold medal that one year in the olympics....

OK OK but what about cleans? and football? this sounds like a basketball comment....

Depends on what school you are at. If you are at certain, show I say south of the border schools, power cleans and any strength training for that matter is discouraged by some people. The basketball coaches just simply cannot allow it. Even for the football players. They say that strength training junk is like a virus. Once it gets started it can get out of control. Next thing you know you will have basketball players in there trying to get stronger, faster, more durable and better athletically. They might even inquire about strength training during basketball season (GADZOOKZ) for crying out loud. Now we just can't have that cause then it might lead to someone trying to interest them in another sport. So I have to give a big notta to the whole power clean idea.

[I smell bad]

Here is a recap of discussions that I myself, as well as many other coaches who I know well, have had with basketball coaches over the last 20 years. This attitude never seems to change in this area. May have something to do with why State Championships are hard to come by. This is a humerous, yet sad, Christmas present to all you coaches and athletes out there who know that year round strength training will build better athletes in all sports, but who are fighting a losing battle with narrow minded basketball coaches. Enjoy!


Here is the scenario as it plays out all over the Land of Mediocrity, hm, hm, I mean Southeastern Ohio:

Other Coach (OC) of any sport other than basketball: We need to get these athletes lifting year round.

Basketball Coach (BC): Yes I agree, and I want to use some practice time this year to make my players lift.

OC: Hey I will even help out in the weight room.

BC: Ok, but wait till I have them a few weeks, so they can get their legs back under them.

After two weeks

OC: Hey you ready for those guys to lift yet?

BC: Naahh their too tired right now. Give us another week.

After one more week

OC: You ready to start lifting yet?

BC: Oh not now, our season starts next week and I can't have those guys sore. It will mess up their shot. Guess they will just have to wait till Spring to start.

This seems to continue year after year. Then next summer when said basketball coach approaches a player about coming out for the team he tells him, "heck yeh we are going to lift this year during the season. You will get all the lifting you can handle if you play on our team." Man should be a used car salesman.

[datchillicav]

Why is this is a question? Cleans(Power and hang) as well as a power snatch are the best exercises ANYONE can do for explosiveness and athleticism. This helps every athlete, especially football players. You tackle, block, cut, push, etc. from the hips. You also get power in a baseball or golf swing from the hips. You get explosion to jump higher for basketball as well as stopping and turning on a dime. It helps every sport except competitive eating IMO.

[warriorfootballer]

so for those of us who accept the fact that cleans and snatches are good exercises to do, how can they best be utilized in our workout? (sets, reps, what days, etc.)

[datchillicav]

On 6 week cycles start with low weight and between 8-10 reps for 4-5 sets. Slowly work your way towards maybe 2X4 and 3X3 with about 85% of your max.

Also do a progression to teach proper form. Begin with Jump shrugs that start light and work heavy over a 4 week period. Once the jump shrug technique is perfected, advance to high pulls for 4-6 weeks and then finally to a hang clean. I would teach hang cleans before power cleans so that the athlete doesn't get into the habit of pulling with the back on the first lift phase. For very seasoned lifters a power snatch can be taught but it is VERY HARD and DANGEROUS if not performed correctly so I would not really recommend it for any high schoolers.

[M0TIVAT0R]

I would never do Cleans for sets of more than 5. Nor would I ever do a 1 rep max. This is one lift that I would use a projected max for. That is just how I feel about it. Not that I am an expert though. Also, I like the "jump shrug" or power shrugs as I call them. But the high pull is more as a precursor for the Snatch than for cleans IMO.

[Philos_Finest]

IMO, you lift in the off season to get stronger. You lift during the season to maintain.

[datchillicav]

Squat Cleans are also a GREAT workout. Maybe better than all the others for a football player and for overall body strength. They start the same as a power clean with the dead lift, pull, etc. but then as you "flip" the weight for the catch, you bend the knees and hips so that you drop to the floor and catch the weight right below the chin. Then stand up performing a front squat then put the weight back down and do it again.

It's really not as hard as it sounds once you get your coordination to a point where you can simultaneously drop and catch properly without losing balance. If teaching the technique start with low weight and then you can usually progress up to about the same weight as a regular clean fairly quickly. You can always find videos online. Crossfit uses this movement often and Im sure you could find a video teaching technique on their website.

[boogerred]

Absolutely, power cleans are good for football.

As with any lift, proper technique must be utilized and coached.

I was told that they are bad for you because they lead to injuries. I believe that statement is total garbage. Cleans are no more dangerous than deadlifting.
Maybe that person was not doing them correctly or was too lazy too do them right and was just concerned with how much weight he could do and totally disregarded using proper technique.
Lack of education about how they should be done is probably the reason why people harp about them hurting people.

The worst thing anyone can do is have the lifters do heavy sets with low reps, as technique diminishes when strained lifts are attempted.

[glider14]

On 6 week cycles start with low weight and between 8-10 reps for 4-5 sets. Slowly work your way towards maybe 2X4 and 3X3 with about 85% of your max.

Also do a progression to teach proper form. Begin with Jump shrugs that start light and work heavy over a 4 week period. Once the jump shrug technique is perfected, advance to high pulls for 4-6 weeks and then finally to a hang clean. I would teach hang cleans before power cleans so that the athlete doesn't get into the habit of pulling with the back on the first lift phase. For very seasoned lifters a power snatch can be taught but it is VERY HARD and DANGEROUS if not performed correctly so I would not really recommend it for any high schoolers.

according to the BFS(Bigger Faster Stronger) program doing anymore than 5 reps of cleans or deadlift in a single set is NOT good for you.

[Baldeagle]

Absolutely, power cleans are good for football.

As with any lift, proper technique must be utilized and coached.

I was told that they are bad for you because they lead to injuries. I believe that statement is total garbage. Cleans are no more dangerous than deadlifting.
Maybe that person was not doing them correctly or was too lazy too do them right and was just concerned with how much weight he could do and totally disregarded using proper technique.
Lack of education about how they should be done is probably the reason why people harp about them hurting people.

The worst thing anyone can do is have the lifters do heavy sets with low reps, as technique diminishes when strained lifts are attempted.

Your mentor on power cleans must have been a total moron.........

[boogerred]

[screamineagle54]

Power cleans are a great lift because they incorporate the hole body. There are both positives and negatives to the lift. It's not a great lift for younger high school kids because their bodies are not yet mature enough for the lift and this can cause damage to both muscles and bones. Also it can stunt growth. I think cleans are a great lift for football because athletes use the clean motion a lot in football.

[boogerred]

On the NFL Network, one of the scouts was talking about how he thought Suh was a better pick than MCCoy because he saw him powercleaning an ungodly amount of weight. The guy went on to say that powercleans translate more into football than bench pressing and any other lift.

[goldenboy]

We do every kind of clean in wellston, and it seems to make us stronger and we had more explosiveness!