The future of Logan and the SEOAL

[Dundas]

1st, come on everyone can see what's going on with Athens in the TVC. Nelsonville will challenge in football, and Vinton County will challenge in basketball, but for the most part Athens will win as many league titles as they want in almost any sport they want.

2nd, You are correct Jackson did try to apply to the TVC, but the SEOAL has changed since that decision. The travel for Jackson isn't bad anymore so I wouldn't see them having a future complaint. The TVC almost unanimously voted them down last time, and I could see the same happening if they applied again. Nobody in that conference wants to see Jackson on the football field. I know Vinton County and Wellston play them in a non league game, but when was the last time one of them won? I can assure you that Nelsonville's monopoly on the TVC football title would be over if the Ironmen became a league member.

3rd, You are also correct about Warren being an SEOAL team, but this topic is about the SEOAL's future. The only reason I listed Warren in the future column is because I don't know how strong their league commitment is. Which has to do mainly with travel concerns. They did state along with Jackson that they were committed to the SEOAL. However, with Marietta now gone I do think if the MVL or TVC came calling that Warren would probably leave.

Vinton County-1998

[Philos_Finest]

The TVC is a terrible football conference(no offense) for Jackson to join along with Warren.

[Orange and Brown]

Oh boy it's bash the TVC time!! YAY!!!!

Mark my words!!! If Jackson gets an invite they will leave the SEOAL before anyone else even knows they are gone!

[Dundas]

GAHS...we already have one...NY. Last win over the Buckeyes came a year later...1999. If you read my earier post...VC has the size and is in the perfect location for the Seoal...i was just wondering what anyone thought about that..? Maybe in 10 years or so... I would love to see the TVC gain better competition such as Jackson or Gallia..however I dont think it will happen...i would say VC joining the Seoal would be more likely to happen...but not likely altogether...im just trying to see what everyone else thinks. VC would definatly have its struggles in the Seoal...but with better competion, over time, i think the Vikings could compete...like i said, they have the size (DIII football, DII Basketball), and they are right smack dab in the middle of al the Seoal schools...20 min to Logan (north) and Jackson (south)...30 min to Chillicothe (west) and Gallia (south) , 1 hr to Warren (east) and Portsmouth (south) ...Those are definatly longer trips overall than what they currently have in the TVC now...but not too much farther. We have traveld to Belpre for years which is minutes to Warren, and Meigs is no different than a trip to Chillicothe or Gallia...Logan and Jackson would be about the same as Albany and Wellston...basically we would have one longer trip to make (Portsmouth).

I know most if not all would laugh at the idea of VC in the Seoal...but with a few years against better competition im sure VC would grow and compete. Plus like you said before...the Seoal isnt a big school division...its just the biggest schools in SEO...and VC would fit perfectly into that category. Just my opinion.

[Orange and Brown]

I told you I know when the last win was and by who. And if you think history is bashing then by all means think that. Look at the number of SEOAL teams over the past decade who have made the playoffs; many of whom had records worse than 9-1 and you will get over your sensitivity and see the truth.

Athens is DII and they will continue to struggle to get in the DII playoffs. If that offends you then so be it. Prove me wrong.

It doesn't offend me at all. I just don't really see the point. And it is true infact the SEOAL has many more playoffs wins over the last decade than the TVC. (Trimble being the most recent team to win a playoff game)
Thats all fine and well with me because there is more to high school sports than playoff wins. I have nothing but respect for the SEOAL. It is a good league with a lot of tradition. I just don't know what your point is comparing playoff wins. Are you saying your better than us or are you saying that Athens will never make the playoffs? Athens scheduled up and that will help them. They will also drop to D-3 the next time around so that will help them to.

I think the SEOAL will be around for a long time. I think the league better get it's teams together and work some stuff out because there are some teams who are not happy at all. When Jackson wants to come to our crappy little league with no playoff wins this decade, you know things must be bad!

I think people need to stop being so arrogant and telling us all how much tradition the SEOAL has and how long it's been around, and start trying to figure out how to keep it around another 85 years.

[Dundas]

I just dont think Athens will dominate the TVC as many believe...just because they have had one great year in the TVC doesnt mean it will continue. GAHS is correct about the TVC being weaker than the Seoal...there is no way around it. The past decade has seen a few TVC teams make the playoffs, but no wins. But to the argument about Athens dominating...just because they came from the Seoal doesnt mean they will dominate...if you look at what they have done in the past 8 years vs TVC teams...

-2002-
3-0
Athens-35 NY-20
Athens-38 Meigs-6
Athens-44 Alexander-7

-2003-
3-0
Athens-35 NY-6
Athens-41 Meigs-0
Athens-40 Alexander-6

-2004-
0-3
NY-20 Athens-0
Meigs-40 Athens-6
Alexander-13 Athens-7

-2005-
1-2
NY-39 Athens-21
Meigs-47 Athens-27
Athens-33 Alexander-18

-2006-
1-2
NY-56 Athens-16
Meigs-27 Athens-14
Athens-47 Alexander-33

-2007-
1-2
NY-22 Athens-8
Meigs-35 Athens-0
Athens-14 Alexander-7

-2008-
3-3
Meigs-26 Athens-13
Athens-25 VC-17
Athens-34 Alexander-6
Wellston-34 Athens-21
NY-22 Athens-14
Athens-33 Belpre-18

-2009-
5-1
Athens-56 Meigs-18
Athens-42 VC-0
Athens-33 Alexander-7
Athens-26 Wellston-0
NY-14 Athens-13
Athens-35 Belpre-0

17-13 total....I think over the course of 8 or 9 more years in the TVC, this trend will continue. Teams have good years ab bad years..just because Athens is having a good spurt after joining the TVC doesnt mean it will continue...the past few years proves it.

[Paladin]

If I step on toes, so be it. Jackson has not competed well in the SEOAL on a regular basis for a long time. Their attempt at the TVC was not for travel reasons (they are in the middle of the league). It was for competitive reasons. Merely look at what they have done to themselves with the non-league games. Of their first 3 games, only Waverly could even remotely be considered competitive and they were murdered when they were in the SEOAL . Thats why Waverly left. For Jackson to even consider the TVC is to admit they no longer think they can compete in the SEOAL and are looking for easy pickings in the TVC like they do with their non-league schedule.

Some may not remember, but I predicted here that Athens would rule in the TVC and hoped that Logan would keep them on their schedule as Athens would rack up big computer points for Logan. Athens then dumped Logan. Jackson's arrogance for all winning is exceeded only by former member Ironton. Neither is willing to admit they abhor not being able to win and so Ironton ducks out when Logan rules the nest and Jackson looked to leave for a competitve advantage in the TVC. Even as bad as Athens was, they were immediate winners in the TVC. It should be obvious that coaches & administrators in the TVC won't make the mistake of taking in an Athens again and Jackson, as weak as they are , are more competitve than Athens was.

Former SEOAL members Meigs, N-Y, Waverly and Wellston, among others ,left for competitve reasons. Now Ironton has and Jackson has tried. Athens succeeded but their success as a poor former member of the SEOAL virtually dooms any others from getting out of the SEOAL and being taken in by another area league.

[ironman02]

Jackson last lost to VC in 1997, not 1998. I know it doesn't really matter, but I just wanted to clarify that. I see that mentioned all the time, and it's just not correct.

Paladin,

I'm not really disagreeing with your post because I was disappointed that the Jackson administration even thought about leaving the SEOAL. However, I would like to know what your definition of "competing well" is. I'll give you the fact that Jackson hasn't won a football title in 11 years, but I feel like they're still competing quite well. Jackson has had a few down years, but they have finished in the Top 3 in the league more years than not during that 11 year span (1999, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009).

[Charles Farquar]

Comparison Logan to Jackson and Gallia Logan 453 boys to Jackson's 301 a 152 difference, Gallia's 268 boys a 185 difference.
Jackson if they were in the TVC Meigs 223 boys a 78 difference, Vinton County 296 boys a 15 difference. Why doesnt anyone ever accuse Logan of being the big fish in the little pond, they have no problem accusing Athens of it. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. That big Logan fish does need to migrate upstream to a league more their size.

[Paladin]

02

Jackson has not competed well for a long time. That does mean not winning championships on a regular basis, and also means how well do they finish in the league overall ( second, third,etc.). Jackson really avoided taking in Ironton and voted against the expansion because of competitve fears. Jackson feared Zanesville as well. There have been a long list of coaches who came & went at Jackson with a common theme -- schedule easy, winnable non-league games , so that no matter how bad they do in league , they can maintain a chance of a winning record and appease the boosters. In doing so, they have lost their competitve balance for the SEOAL, even with Ironton & Zanesville leaving. The attempt to bolt to the TVC was really a humorous sight -- go to a league of smaller ,weaker schools in an attempt to bolster more wins to appease the boosters, even if they may cost playoff chances as it has hurt ATHENS. Your 11 year example shows Jackson finishing 3rd or better in 6 of those 11 years . And the other 5 ? Thats barely .500 in years of third or better. While FB is important to the Ironmen, they really have not done well in overall sports either. I played & coached against Jackson when they were competitive. But those days are long since gone. They are very average and I don't think that even that sits well with the natives. Most of the natives have watched as Jackson sank in competition in the SEOAL and yearned to dominate. Hence, the TVC. The TVC would have been a total embarassment for Jackson, even in winning. But , Jackson won't get in now. The Athens experiment dooms that.

[Paladin]

As for Chuckie boy, its not just about numbers. Its about competition. Using your poor idea, Jackson would never lose to a smaller school ?? Nor would Logan?? And on the other hand, Logan would have no business beating up on a D-I Lancaster or Pick North ?? Sorry, been there, done that.

Its about competitve level , not school size. The TVC is simply a weaker league than the SEOAL. Size may be an argument, but competitive level is where its at. Many of those in the TVC were former members of the SEOAL who were murdered when they were there.

Much of SEO is about failure to be competitive and most try to duck that by playing weaker schools and smaller teams in search of winning. That only makes you weaker. Thats why the better programs play the bigger, tougher schools in trying to get better.

[ironman02]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't really agree that Jackson hasn't been competitive. In 2002, 2007, and 2008, Jackson struggled in league play, but those teams struggled altogether. If Jackson hadn't lost close games to GAHS in 2003 and 2004, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion, but it didn't quite work out.

I don't think the Jackson program has fallen off quite as much as you believe. In my opinion, they're a legitimate title contender next season. If they win it, that'll be great. If they don't, I still think their place is in the SEOAL and I believe that they'll continue to be one of the better programs in the league most years.

[Paladin]

Then why the attempt at the TVC ??

"Travel" ??

[ironman02]

Just two posts ago I told you that I was disappointed that the admin looked at the TVC. Apparently they have decided to stick with the SEOAL and not pursue that avenue any further, but who knows what will happen if an opportunity should present itself.

I'm looking at this from the perspective that Jackson is in the SEOAL, and should remain there in the forseeable future. Jackson was much improved last season and I think they're on track to get back to contending for the SEOAL title. That's obviously the goal, so a past decision by the administration does nothing to change that.

[MTSWNGRVSG]

Logan stays in the SEOAL-they are not stupid. As for Jackson looking at other leagues was at the same time that Portsmouth applied to SOC and that was travel and money-not competition level. Several SEOAL schools were looking at that time because they were not sure what was going to happen so they were looking at options before they found them selves out with no place to go. The SEAOL since the expansion has lost Zanesville, Ironton, Marietta, and Athens. A league will survive with 6 schools but will struggle with less!

[Dundas]

You are correct 02...VC beat Jackson 19-13 in '97. Thank you for setting me straight!

[ironman02]

Didn't mean to nitpick. I've just seen quite a few people mention that, so I thought I would say something.

1997 Jackson was a great football team, but the Vikes played a heck of a game that night. Shane Wolford ran for 2,300 yards that season, but VC held him under 60 if I remember correctly. With the game tied 13-13, VC lined up to kick a FG late in the game. Ryan Caudill had the leg to make it, so Jackson came with an all-out rush. The kick would have probably been blocked, but it was a fake and VC threw a TD pass to take the 19-13 lead. Heartbreaking loss for the Ironmen, but it gave them the motivation to go 9-1, win the SEOAL, and make the playoffs.

Vinton County's other win against Jackson came in 1993. They hammered the Ironmen 50-14, I believe. The Ironmen went 4-6 that year, but VC finished 10-2 if I remember correctly...lost a close game in the regular season to N-Y and an OT game to Ironton in the playoffs.

[Daniel Larusso]

You are correct 02...VC beat Jackson 19-13 in '97. Thank you for setting me straight!

I thought the 97 Jackson team was undefeated. Wasn't that the year they had the ridiculously huge line, and Shane Wolford running behind it.

[ironman02]

1996 Jackson went undefeated. They were 9-1 in 1997 and 1998.

The O-lines in 1996 and 1997 were probably the best in school history. Three or four of those guys went on to play college football at some level, including Doug Wooten and Erik Davis who both started at OU.

[Daniel Larusso]

Ironman 02 just answered my question. Vinton County must of been loaded to stop that train. Dundas if you don't mind me asking what was Vinton County record in 97?