TVC-Ohio P.O.Y.???

[Orange and Brown]

Who do you think should be P.O.Y. in the Ohio this year. The season is winding down so it's time to start making a case for your guy.

Try to be nice!

[athens78]

Butcher from Athens, hands down

[Orange and Brown]

Butcher from Athens, hands down

He has been very good for the Bulldogs this year. What about Frank Valentor (sp). It seems like he has really done a great job inside for the Dogs this year.

[Gib25]

After watching all of the Athens games, you could make a case for Cori Butcher, Frank Valentour, and Collin Pfaff. Each one has had a big impact on the team success.

[hawkeyepierce]

Pfaff, he has killed Vinton County. I for one will be glad to see him graduate.

[FLASH-G]

Andy Grillo best player in the T.V.C.

[93Bulldog]

I don't know about that FLASH ... Grillo is a great athlete, terrific player but to say he is better than or is the best in the TVC-Ohio is a little far-fetched ... Going against the best in the league (Athens) Grillo had 4 field goals, only 9-points, 2 rebounds and a steal (On his home court) ... CORI BUTCHER scored a game high 20 pts, was 4-4 from the line and none of the points came from threes (they mostly came from drives to the basket and creating shots for himself - which is a sign of a complete player with elite athletic ability)

GAME II - Grillo had a better game leading his team with 16 points ... BUT FRANK VALENTOUR proved to be the best player on the floor that night ... He scored 26 points, was 8-for-12 from the line and pulled down a game high 12 rebounds ... COLLIN PFAFF could even make a case for being the best player in the league or P.O.Y ... Against Vinton in the 2nd game he scored 18 points (AND ALL 15 OF THE BULLDOGS FINAL PTS) and was 8-for-8 from the free thow line. He clearly outplayed Grillo in that contest and basically took over the game ...

I just can't see a statement being made about Grillo being the best in the league when he got outplayed by Butcher in one game, and then by Valentour and Pfaff in the other. The best players don't have to be great scorers, but being a clutch performer - at crunch time in the biggest games - is a major factor ... Butcher came up big down the stretch in game I, Valentour was huge all night in game II and Pfaff played out-of-his-mind during the 4th quarter in game II ... Grillo went 4-for-10 from the line and it perhaps cost the Vikings the game ... That doesn't sound like 'The best player in the league to me.'

BUT I AM NOT POSTING ON HERE TO HATE ON AN 18-YEAR OLD KID - LIKE I SAID, GRILLO IS AN AWESOME ATHLETE AND I WOULD TAKE HIM ON MY TEAM ANY DAY OF THE WEEK! I ONLY WANTED TO STATE THE FACTS AND HOPEFULLY THE REMAINDER OF THIS THREAD WILL BE MORE POSITIVE - AND NOT TURN INTO A 'HATE FEST' OR MADE OF BOLD STATEMENTS THAT IN TURN MAKES OTHER PLAYERS LOOK BAD ...

GRILLO IS 1ST TEAM ALL LEAGUE PLAYER - NO DOUBT ABOUT IT ... VALENTOUR, PFAFF & BUTCHER ARE AS WELL ... AND MARKIE TATE AND REGGIE SIMMS (BELPRE) ARE AS TALENTED AS ANY OF THOSE FOUR GUYS. OR HOW ABOUT ZACH BOBO FROM ALEX, HE'S A TREMENDOUS SCORER ... THERE ARE LOTS OF GOOD PLAYERS IN THE TVC-OHIO, BUT P.O.Y WILL BE EITHER BUTCHER, PFAFF OR VALENTOUR (NO IF'S AND'S OR BUTT'S ABOUT IT) ... YOU GO 10-O AND POSSIBLY EVEN 12-0 IN THE LEAGUE AND HAVE THAT TYPE OF TALENT, ONE OF THEM WILL HAVE "EARNED" P.O.Y HONORS.

[McArthur General]

Shouldn't Dylan Guthrie be in this conversation?

[vintonballer10]

I watched that reggie sims kid play and all I saw from him was no heart. He doesn't play to win and never passes the ball. He complains to the refs about every little push or foul. He is always crying when something doesn't go his way. This team has way to much talent to have the record they have. You have to many players that want to do it all and thats not how good teams win. Its not about how much talent you have its about how its used with a team effort. Thats the difference in a good team and an average team. Thats why year in and year out we always beat belpre.

[3sportdad]

P.O.Y. should not and can not be justified by one or two games. It should to go to the player who is a consistent leader. IMO NOBODY has made a case for any player on this thread YET! Talk about how a kid has done for the year, NOT one or two games. DO NOT throw a kid out of the running because of one or two games. Everyone wants to see someone from their favorite team get this honor. MY SUGGESTION is DO NOT talk about a kid on your favorite team, talk about a kid from another team and see how this thread goes. HARDER?? YES!! Because very few people see other teams enough to make judgements for OR against them. But DONT just make this thread about your home team. Everybody on here could make a case for a kid from their home team.

[Orange and Brown]

I watched that reggie sims kid play and all I saw from him was no heart. He doesn't play to win and never passes the ball. He complains to the refs about every little push or foul. He is always crying when something doesn't go his way. This team has way to much talent to have the record they have. You have to many players that want to do it all and thats not how good teams win. Its not about how much talent you have its about how its used with a team effort. Thats the difference in a good team and an average team. Thats why year in and year out we always beat belpre.

Lets try not to bash or talk negative about the kids.

[Orange and Brown]

P.O.Y. should not and can not be justified by one or two games. It should to go to the player who is a consistent leader. IMO NOBODY has made a case for any player on this thread YET! Talk about how a kid has done for the year, NOT one or two games. DO NOT throw a kid out of the running because of one or two games. Everyone wants to see someone from their favorite team get this honor. MY SUGGESTION is DO NOT talk about a kid on your favorite team, talk about a kid from another team and see how this thread goes. HARDER?? YES!! Because very few people see other teams enough to make judgements for OR against them. But DONT just make this thread about your home team. Everybody on here could make a case for a kid from their home team.

I agree 110%

[93Bulldog]

I didn't mean to break it down into one or two games; I was only stating what some of the front runners did when they faced off against each other ... I am sure GRILLO, TATE, BOBO and all those kids have been solid all year and so has BUTCHER, PFAFF & VALENTOUR .... They all wouldn't even be considered for P.O.Y if they weren't producing week-in-and-week-out ... that is obvious .... I only wanted to show what happened when the two best teams in the league locked horns.

BTW ... NOT SURE IF YOU ALL KNOW THIS: A TEAM WON'T BE HURT IF IT HAS TWO OR THREE KIDS THAT ARE UP FOR THE AWARD ... A COACH CAN ONLY NOMINATE ONE, ITS WHOEVER JEFF SKINNER NOMINATES (IF ATHENS FINISHES 12-0) IS WHO WILL END UP P.O.Y. ... SO BUTCHER, PFAFF, VALENTOUR WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEATING EACH OTHER OUT OR CANCELING EACH OTHER OUT .... IT WILL BE ONE GUY, AND THE REST OF THE LEAGUE COACHES WILL NOMINATE 1 PLAYER - AND THEN THEY ALL VOTE ON IT. I KNOW THAT'S HOW IT WORKS, BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN A MEETING OR BEEN THEIR WHEN THAT STUFF IS DONE .... I'M GUESSING THE TEAMS' COACH WHO IS IN FIRST PLACE STARTS AND NOMINATES HIS GUY, THE NEXT TEAM/COACH DOWN CAN EITHER AGREE, OR PUT UP A DIFFERENT PLAYER (USUALLY IF ITS THE 2ND PLACE TEAM, I AM GUESSING HE WOULD PROBABLY PUT UP ONE OF HIS OWN PLAYERS) ... BUT THEN IT GOES DOWN THE LINE, WHICH IS WHERE A LOT OF COACHES PROBABLY AGREE-AND-VOTE FOR ONE OF THE FIRST TWO NOMINATED.

THIS YEAR - YOU COULD EASILY HAVE SKINNER PUT UP LETS SAY, VALENTOUR ... THEN COMBS WOULD EITHER AGREE OR COULD PUT UP GRILLO ... THEN PARSONS (BELPRE) COULD PUT UP MARKIE TATE or vote for VALENTOUR or GRILLO ... THEN GABRIEL could either put up BOBO, OR VOTE for VALENTOUR, GRILLO, TATE ... THERE COULD EASILLY BE 4 DIFFERENT PLAYERS IN THE RUNNING BY THE TIME IT GETS AROUND TO KLINE, DERROW & THE MEIGS COACH (EWING?) ...

I am totally guessing here, but if it in fact works out just like that, I would say Kline/Derrow/Ewing would probably vote for the teams' player that finished 12-0 & won the league ... which takes me back to who ever Skinner nominates will most likely win the P.O.Y honors ... talk about a tough and sticky situation for a coach, I know Skinner will toss & turn over that decision - he loves all those kids - I'm not sure he will even be able to even do it ...

[justlookin]

Markie Tate from Belpre. He can change the game on both ends of the floor and is averaging around 22 ppg 8 rpg 5 apg in league play.
All the others have great game but I don't think anyone player makes that big of a difference on a game than Tate. Coaches have to come up with exotic defenses to contain him.




GO EAGLES!!!

[Heavy D]

Now come on guys some people are using the fact that Eastern is the best TEAM in the hocking to sell their argument that no player from that team will get POY. Now they are saying that the POY in the Ohio should go to one of Athens players cause they are going to win the league. So I guess those people must think that Eastern plays more as a team than Athens does? Boy I sure am glad those people don't get a vote.

[Orange and Brown]

P.O.Y. should go to the BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE.

[93Bulldog]

Heavy D ... For one: Eastern does play more as a unit (they have to with no player over 6-foot-1) ... they use all 5 guys to their maximum ability to score, rebound, etc..etc...

Their situation is nothing like Athens - they don't have a dominate scorer or a guy who records double-doubles every night ... All you see from Eastern are WINS and every player seems to contribute as they obtain them.

Athens has a trio of players that are really, really good - and they carry the team at times, especially on offense/scoring. Each player for Athens have all had 'signature moments' throughout the season ... Butcher - 30 pts versus Belpre and his 20 pt game versus VC the first time ... Valentour 26 pts, 12 reb versus VC the 2nd game ... Pfaff 18 pts, 15 down the stretch versus VC the 2nd time ... (those are just a few to name)

I don't see why the difference is not concievable ... for example: last year in the NBA: The series between Boston and Chicago that went 7 games and was full over overtimes and thrilling endings ... The Bulls I can't even think who even starts for them, Derrek Rose was a rookie and nobody on the team was an ALL-STAR, let alone an NBA M.V.P type (but they were good and they gave Boston everything they could handle and almost won the series) ... Boston on the other hand had the 'BIG THREE' of Kevin Garnette (former NBA league M.V.P), Paul Pierce (NBA finals MVP in 2008) and Ray Allen (series M.V.P versus Chicago) ... All of whom have been NBA All-Stars for like 10 years in a row now. Both teams had good regualr season records, both made it to the playoffs and played each other tight for 7 games: But now way does Chicago have a single player even close to having 'Star Power' like Garnette, Pierce and Allen.

See the difference: Its the same with Athens and Eastern (sort of) ... It doesn't mean Athens is a better 'team' than Eastern, the Bulldogs barely beat the Eagles by three earlier in the season ... But Butcher had 17 pts, Valentour had 14 and 7 rebounds, Pfaff had 9 pts but dished out 9 assists ... Eastern barely had one player reach double figures (Kyle Connery ended up with 12) Lynch 7, Winebrenner 6.

What is so funny is that all of this doesn't mean a hill-of-beans ... the head coach can only nominate 1 player for league P.O.Y ... If Skinner puts up Valentour, the rest of the coaches have to vote on weather or not he is more deserving than someone else who might get nominated .... Its not going to come down to Valentour, Butcher or Pfaff ... Same goes for Eastern ... If Howie puts up Lynch (the other Hocking coaches have to decide if he is more deserving than lets say - Tyler Thompson.)

Its very interesting and its gonna be fun to see who ends up with these awards this year .... its always a little complicated every season and in every sport - of course 'politics' come into play sometimes as well. That LEAGUE CHAMPION notion is ridiculus though, its not a for-gone-conclusion that a team who wins the league gets the post season awards. i.e. 2008 in volleyball - The Spartans crush everyone, win the league outright and have an abundance of talented players (Allison graves wins P.O.Y and VC was barely a .500 team. 2009 in volleyball: same situation - Alex and Athens tie for the title and finish way ahead of all the other teams (again Graves wins P.O.Y) ... 2009 Football: Athens and Nelsonville-York tie for the title and the Buckeyes also have Derek Arnold, the reigning P.O.Y and all distirct, all-state selection - (Jeremy Smith from Meigs wins P.O.Y.) ... 2008/2009 basketball: Vinton County pounds the rest of the league all year and wins the title (Greg Frost from Alexander wins P.O.Y ... 2008/2009 girls basketball: Alexander crushes everyone all year and wins the title (Kim Kline (NY) wins P.O.Y)

[gotgame]

Although a coach may only nominate one player the fact is those same coaches "know" that Athens has 3 great kids and how their preparation differs facing one top player verses three. It seems to me that kids like Bobo and Tate get tons of attention from opposing coaches. Against Athens Belpre's focus was stoping Valentour and Butcher killed them. Against Alexander Beplre focus was Bobo but he had a great night. So who's performance was more impressive, IDK


We've been blessed to have an outstanding group of kids in our area who love the game and work so very hard at getting better. They do all this in front of the community. How many of the adults that get on this site and "trash talk" about kids could take that kind of scrutiny about their job or their love life. I figure not to many.
All you so called wanna be ESPN SportsCenter comentators remember next time you trash talk some kid you're not talking about an NBA millionaire but a school kid playing a game.

[93Bulldog]

Uh, I was at that Alexander-Belpre game in Albany and it appeared to me; Bobo was left alone so many times he probably thought he was the only guy on the court ... lol ... J/K gotgame.

You are correct though, they are just kids ... although since these sports forums sprung up in 2001 with JJhuddle, its always been this way ... I do think the boys are smart enough to understand its all just bull**** ... I have coaches tell me all the time that they inform the players to not pay any attention to the chat room web sites ... It always seems to be these P.O.Y threads which stir the pot the most ... I usually don't even post on em, and I think I remember why now ... lol

[gotgame]

Tate - Belpre
Bobo - Alexander
Valentour - Athens