TROJANS 2010?

[West Side Pride]

Make up your mind!!!

[Bleeding Red]

[quote="Trojan_FB_Alum"][quote="Bleeding Red"]
Gallia Academy was in a down cycle for them last year but their program has a great history of success, and if you look at their schedule their record it becomes obvious that their record is not indicative of the quality of team they were last season.


I would say their record was clearly indicative of the quality of team they were last season. To say otherwise makes no sense.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Gallia’s loses came at the hands of teams that have a combined record of 65-15 and an average division of 3. While Minford Victories came against teams with a combined record of 39- 51, and an average division of 4.3. Look at the numbers, if you think Minford does better then 4-6 against that schedule you are fooling yourself. Even a record of 4-6 maybe a stretch.

[Incognito]

I'm not saying we're better, I'm saying I like the matchup. Talk about arrogant Why would a team want to play a bunch of cupcakes and then just get stomped in league play/ playoffs?

Minford 2010 schedule
South Point – cupcake, I know PHS has played them too.
Wellston- possible decent team, maybe cupcake
Piketon- cupcake
Megis –cupcake
Oak Hill
Burg
West
Northwest – Cupcake but a conference game no way to avoid
Waverly
Valley

Portsmouth’s 2010 schedule
D2 Wilmington
D4 West
D5 Burg
D2 Warren
D3 Chillicothe- down but still loaded with athlete, and now coached by Ron Hinton
D3 Jackson
D2 Marietta - All call them a cupcake at the current time, but they have put many good teams out and it’s a league game we must play
D3 Gallia Academy
D2 Logan
D4 Ironton

Let’s see that makes 1 cupcake for PHS, and 4 maybe 5 for Minford. Where are the phantom cupcakes on the Trojans schedule you speak of?



MikenMike,
I am well aware that Minford has a different coach now, then they had during that stretch, and that their program is different now. However I think you all are confused because you have had 3 straight trips to the post season that have ended in one and done. Minford has had a good run of talent and some cupcake scheduling that have got them 8 win seasons and into the playoffs, but the talent comes in cycles and Minford will dry up, and only have the cupcakes to rely on. High school football is a lot more about the Billys and Joes then it is about Xs and Os.

.

Ok where to begin. First let me do a little revision on your Portsmouth schedule opinion

Portsmouth’s 2010 schedule
D2 Wilmington- Cupcake. Lose their leading rusher,passer, and receiver. Their 2nd leading rusher had 52 attempts for a total of...213 yards. Their backup Qb was also a senior so they are breaking in a new Qb.
D4 West
D5 Burg
D2 Warren- You call Meigs a cupcake but it took Warren 2ot to beat them sooooo...Cupcake.
D3 Chillicothe- down but still loaded with athlete, and now coached by Ron Hinton
D3 Jackson
D2 Marietta - All call them a cupcake at the current time, but they have put many good teams out and it’s a league game we must play
D3 Gallia Academy
D2 Logan
D4 Ironton

So thats 4 cupcakes to 4 cupcakes.

Second is your comment to MikenMike and I quote "High school football is a lot more about the Billys and Joes then it is about Xs and Os." While true to an extent, you still need coaches to make the decisions. If it were really all bout the Billys and Joes then Portsmouth should have atleast 2 state championships right now(2000 and 2001). 2002 you guys just got outplayed and outcoached by "lowly" SOCII West. Furthermore, the 2009 Wheelersburg Pirates were probably the most talented team in Southern Ohio 2nd to Ironton. Minford was outmatched in every aspect of the game but coaching. The coaching staff formulated a stellar gameplan that slowed down the full steam ahead rushing attack of 'Burg then turned around and held Mr.Pendelton of Portsmouth West to I believe 60 yards rushing.

Secondly, why would Portsmouth want to play Minford?Using Trojan_Fb_Alum's logic, Minford chalks their schedule up with cupcakes then due to their lack luster OOC schedule get beat up in conference play then that makes Minford a cupcake. Which being a div lower than Portsmouth is not a good move on PHS part. Maybe Im dim but why would PHS offer Minford 3 different times to play if they arnt nothing but a bunch of cupcake playing,pseudo playoff caliber Cow tippers...

In reality if Minford did deny Portsmouth it is for Minfords sake. Because if this past decade's history repeat's itself and the Trojans make the playoffs this year it will be another 2 or so years before PHS has another winning record and adding another cupcake to our "cupcake" OOC is a bad idea....and thats a fact.

Lastly, I believe Portsmouth is going to have a great year. Hopefully adding another Scioto county team to the playoff picture. I look forward to a very PRODUCTIVE scrimmage come August with both teams working on what needs to be worked on against above average competition. The defenses will get a chance to see above average RB's in Minford and a stellar passing attack from Josh. I wish the Porstmouth Trojans all the luck in the world and here's to an injury free and successful season.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Ok first of all Wilmington being a D2 schools means that they still more than likely have a fresh bunch of quality athletes to replace the graduating seniors. They may be a little inexperienced in game situations, but I would bet they are predominantly a junior a senior team and would be tough for any D4, and D5 team in the area. Cupcake hardly

Warren did under perform in their game against Meigs, but they also had an impressive victory over a good Parkersburg South and played Logan close. Two years ago I would have agreed with you but Warren is a program on the rise. Power house no, but not a cupcake
For the record I never called Chillicothe a cupcake I said they were down, but loaded with athletes, and since you are such a fan of coaching, I’m sure you recognize the quality of teams Ron Hinton( formally of Amanda Clearcreek) puts on the field.
So by my count that’s still one maybe 3 at the very most for PHS, and 4 maybe 5 for Minford. For the record I think I’m being real generous with saying maybe 3.


Secondly I still think it is about athletes, more than coaches, however I never said the coaches were irrelevant. This statement was made in response to Minford posters praise of Coach Daniels, who I do think is a good coach, however I don't think he is any better than Coach Ashley was. The difference is the athletes that Coach Daniels has had.

Also on this topic I don't know why so many find it necessary to make remarks about the coaching ability at PHS. There were many factors besides coaching that went into those loses in 2000, and 2001. As for 2002 PHS didn't have as much talent as the previous 2 years but played great team football. That 2002 team from West was also very talented, and they just happened to win that game. I still believe that the conditions of that game favored the senators, but that is neither here nor there. Side note the 01 team would have had to beat Ben Maulk and Kenton to win state, thanks for the sentiment but I don’t think we would have been successful.

You also refer to West and Burg in sarcasm as lowly SOC teams, however I would like to remind you that I said with the exception of West and Burg no local team wants a piece of the Trojans on a yearly basis. I have respect for both these programs and enjoy the great rivalries we have with them.

Next you ask why PHS would want Minford on the schedule. Well I really think you should have been able to figure that one out for your own, but I will be glad to help. Reason 1 it would be a large gate and we all know money is important to any athletic department. Reason 2 it cuts down on travel expenses. It is a lot cheaper to go to Minford then it is to head to Columbus, Wilmington, New Lexington, Amanda Clearcreek, Western Brown or St. Clairsville, all of which are places the Trojans have had to travel to find games in recent memory. Reason 3 as I said Minford is on the rise, and should be able to pick up a decent amount of games each year, resulting in decent points.

I will agree with your possible reason as to why the Falcons may have turned down the offer. You are right if the past decades history repeats its self it may be another few years for the Trojans. Other history from the decade is that even in bad years for the Trojans Minford was unable to beat them, even in a playoff year for the Falcons. I can see how this is a lose lose situation for the Falcons. If the Trojans are good they have little chance at a win and if they are bad they may still not be able to get the job done. Even if they were able to final beat PHS it would most likely be in a down year for the Trojans resulting in little help in playoff points.

I also would like to second your closing statement and wish the Falcons the best of luck. I do think this is a good scrimmage for both schools, although I preferred the Trojans game with Logan Elm.

[Mikenmike]

[quote="Trojan_FB_Alum"]Secondly I still think it is about athletes, more than coaches, however I never said the coaches were irrelevant. This statement was made in response to Minford posters praise of Coach Daniels, who I do think is a good coach, however I don't think he is any better than Coach Ashley was. The difference is the athletes that Coach Daniels has had.

quote]

Anyone who was close to the program under Coach Ashley and who is now close to the program with Coach Daniels in charge can tell you that statement is incorrect. Coach Ashley is a good guy and he knows the x's and o's more then most people I have ever met but he is not a good head coach. He would be a great assistant imo, but he does not run a program the way it should be. Don't take this as me saying Coach Daniels is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he gets more out of his players then Coach Ashley ever did. The 05 class(year before we lost to NW) should not have went 4-6 and the 07 class should not have went 5-5 are 2 years that stick out in my mind the most that had there been a different coach the season could have been alot better, there was a ton of talent on both those teams and both underperformed.

[Incognito]

Take a peek at Wilmingtons website. They have 42 men on the team which,I may be wrong is sorta small for a D2 school. I would also like to add they lose not only this years top performers but the past two years. Course whose to say they dont have a stud waiting in the ranks but I am apt to believe he would have showed up by now in some way.

Secondly I still think it is about athletes, more than coaches, however I never said the coaches were irrelevant. This statement was made in response to Minford posters praise of Coach Daniels, who I do think is a good coach, however I don't think he is any better than Coach Ashley was. The difference is the athletes that Coach Daniels has had.

And you have just shown your football knowledge or lack there of with this statement...

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

And you have just shown your football knowledge or lack there of with this statement...

I love when you guys make snide remarks like this, that show you are unable to respond in an intelligent manner when someone has presented you with the facts.

If Coach Ashley is only able to be an assistant coach, how come he was able to perform at Notre Dame when the talent pool was up? If you remember he led his Titans to a victory over a highly touted and very skilled Falcon team in 2000.


As far as Wilmington goes that 42 boys on the team is only 10th-12th grades, add in the 24 freshmen boys and their total becomes 66.

Also with 42 boys 10-12 and only 15 seniors graduating they will have 27 upper classmen on the team next season. That is a huge plus to have 27 boys that are juniors or seniors. It is a luxury that schools in our area rarely get.

The Hurricanes are 54-46 in the last 10 years for a winning percentage of 54%. With quality programs like Cincinnati Turpin, West Carlton, and Kings Mills Kings on their schedule 54 wins is very respectable. I am in no way saying that they are a D2 power, but they are a program with some success, and are a quality opponent for any division 4 team.

I know that it is hard for Minford fans to realize the difficulty in playing up divisions since they haven’t played anyone higher then D4 other then in conference Waverly, and perennial cup cake Vinton County, since they played PHS in 2000( although that year Minford was D4 so they only played up one division). Even D2 schools that may not have the best record can still be very formidable, because of the depth they have.

[Incognito]

And you have just shown your football knowledge or lack there of with this statement...

I love when you guys make snide remarks like this, that show you are unable to respond in an intelligent manner when someone has presented you with the facts.

If Coach Ashley is only able to be an assistant coach, how come he was able to perform at Notre Dame when the talent pool was up? If you remember he led his Titans to a victory over a highly touted and very skilled Falcon team in 2000.


As far as Wilmington goes that 42 boys on the team is only 10th-12th grades, add in the 24 freshmen boys and their total becomes 66.

Also with 42 boys 10-12 and only 15 seniors graduating they will have 27 upper classmen on the team next season. That is a huge plus to have 27 boys that are juniors or seniors. It is a luxury that schools in our area rarely get.

The Hurricanes are 54-46 in the last 10 years for a winning percentage of 54%. With quality programs like Cincinnati Turpin, West Carlton, and Kings Mills Kings on their schedule 54 wins is very respectable. I am in no way saying that they are a D2 power, but they are a program with some success, and are a quality opponent for any division 4 team.

I know that it is hard for Minford fans to realize the difficulty in playing up divisions since they haven’t played anyone higher then D4 other then in conference Waverly, and perennial cup cake Vinton County, since they played PHS in 2000( although that year Minford was D4 so they only played up one division). Even D2 schools that may not have the best record can still be very formidable, because of the depth they have.

He won that year with 20 seniors I believe which is an amazing asset to have in a D6 team, and because for some reason Minford elected to go on offense first in OT. He then turned in an 0-10 season and left for Minford.Fact of the matter is he has had 2 winning seasons since 2000. Coach Ashley is a great guy and a great football mind but he just didnt work out at Minford.

Yes,Wilmington is a D2 and it could feel like the Chinese army coming at you,but they will be inexperienced as far as RB,QB,WR and a few lineman go. Not sure about the defenese. Couple relative inexperience with playing 2 or so hours from home in a frenzied football environment, its looking pretty good for the Trojans. Its a win-win for them, beat them you get D2 level points lose and its because they are a D2 team no one else around here could play with.

Far as Minford goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. Were getting to the point where we are looking for higher competition, just have to honor schedule commitments that were made a few years ago when South Point was good, Piketon was an SVC contender and Meigs was contending with Nelsonville in the TVC-Ohio. Besides what incentive would a D2 or D3 team have in playing a D5 school?

[Faclons Forever]

Oops... didn't mean to start all that. Someone did make a good point though. It wouldn't make much sense for these teams to play, not to say that it wouldn't be a good game. My sincerest apologies for making this into such a argument. Now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya

[Bleeding Red]

And for the record I will say that I would take Daniels over Ashley any day of the week. I think he is doing a remarkable job with the program. I would also take Ashley over Clifford any day of the week

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

For the record, Clifford is one of the lower caliber coaches in Southern Ohio. He has already blew one state championship!

With the caliber of players that Portsmouth had come through the program since 1995, it has been a complete letdown.

This post is speculation, and is just another attempt to run down the Portsmouth program, and specifically Curt Clifford. He is arguable one of the most successful coaches in our area, behind only the likes of Bob Lutz, Ed Miller, and Larry Hall.

As for blowing a state championship, my only response would be that until you compete at that level you have no idea of how difficult it is. The level of play and coaching is so far above anything around here it is unreal.

Everyone likes to jump on Clifford for losing that state semifinal game to Van Wert, but at least he got his team there( defeating Jackson, Cincinnati Purcell Marion, and Dayton C. J.), so unless someone from Wheelersburg, Ironton, or West have something to say I guess this discussion is over.

[Bleeding Red]

Trojan_FB_Alum- why should Minford play up 2 divisions? It makes absolutely no sense. They dont have to.

You can brag about PHS being in the bigger conference, but I can assure you, if they could get out of that conference they would have several years ago since they have tried. They would be playing in the SOC II and would be "Playing down" as you would put it, on alot of their games.

So with that being said, why should the SOC vote them in, since all the PHS fans dont want to "Play down" on the schedule?

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Trojan_FB_Alum- why should Minford play up 2 divisions? It makes absolutely no sense. They dont have to.

You can brag about PHS being in the bigger conference, but I can assure you, if they could get out of that conference they would have several years ago since they have tried. They would be playing in the SOC II and would be "Playing down" as you would put it, on alot of their games.

So with that being said, why should the SOC vote them in, since all the PHS fans dont want to "Play down" on the schedule?

Okay first of all I wasn’t bragging about the SEOAL. I was talking about you not being able to talk about how Clifford blew anything, if you have never competed at that level. That level meaning regional championship and state semi final games.

Minford doesn’t have to play up divisions if they don’t want to, most teams do like to challenge themselves and help prepare for the playoffs. If the Falcons are happy with 7 or 8 wins seasons against a weak non league schedule and an early exit that is there prerogative.

I also didn’t say we would be playing down in the SOC. For example if we played in the SOC I think it would look something like this
1. Wilmington ( or some other D2 or D3 school)
2. Chillicothe (D3 long time rival)
3. Ironton ( D4 power best rivalry in southern Ohio)
4. Gallia Academy ( D3 Very good most years, down at the moment but on way back)
5. Waverly D3
6. Northwest D4 Playing way down on this one
7. Valley D5 A victory most year, but the Indians are improving and becoming more competitive
8. West D4 A strong program and a good rival
9. Minford D5 same bout as Valley, PHS has owned them but the Falcons are improving.
10. Burg D5 power, and a great rivalry game. If we were to join I would like to get the game back to the last week of the season. It was always more fun that way.

See we would still play a good schedule for a small D4 school, with an average division of 3.8. It wouldn’t be the grind we play now but it would eliminate those 1, and 2 win seasons.

[Daniel Larusso]

Trojan_FB_Alum- why should Minford play up 2 divisions? It makes absolutely no sense. They dont have to.

You can brag about PHS being in the bigger conference, but I can assure you, if they could get out of that conference they would have several years ago since they have tried. They would be playing in the SOC II and would be "Playing down" as you would put it, on alot of their games.

So with that being said, why should the SOC vote them in, since all the PHS fans dont want to "Play down" on the schedule?

Okay first of all I wasn’t bragging about the SEOAL. I was talking about you not being able to talk about how Clifford blew anything, if you have never competed at that level. That level meaning regional championship and state semi final games.

Minford doesn’t have to play up divisions if they don’t want to, most teams do like to challenge themselves and help prepare for the playoffs. If the Falcons are happy with 7 or 8 wins seasons against a weak non league schedule and an early exit that is there prerogative.

I also didn’t say we would be playing down in the SOC. For example if we played in the SOC I think it would look something like this
1. Wilmington ( or some other D2 or D3 school)
2. Chillicothe (D3 long time rival)
3. Ironton ( D4 power best rivalry in southern Ohio)
4. Gallia Academy ( D4 Very good most years, down at the moment but on way back)
5. Waverly D3
6. Northwest D4 Playing way down on this one
7. Valley D5 A victory most year, but the Indians are improving and becoming more competitive
8. West D4 A strong program and a good rival
9. Minford D5 same bout as Valley, PHS has owned them but the Falcons are improving.
10. Burg D5 power, and a great rivalry game. If we were to join I would like to get the game back to the last week of the season. It was always more fun that way.

See we would still play a good schedule for a small D4 school, with an average division of 3.9. It wouldn’t be the grind we play now but it would eliminate those 1, and 2 win seasons.

Gallia Academy is a D3 school.

Did Portsmouth and Wilmington play on a regular a basis in the past?

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Yeah, you are right Gallia is D3, don't know why I said 4.

As for PHS and Wilmington as far as I know this will be the first meeting between them, that is why I preference it with "or some other D2 or D3 school.
For example in the last few years the Trojans have played D2 Western Brown twice, D1 Huntington WV, D3 Washington Courthouse, D2 Columbus St. Charles, D3 Athens (non league at the time),and D1 Spring Valley WV.
I also remember the Trojans scheduling some smaller but very quality teams like New Lexington, and being the only 2 blemishes on Amanda Clearcreek’s 2 state championships in 99, and 00.

[Moses Guthrie]

TFBAlum..
PHS defeated Wilmington in 1984 on their way to Portsmouth's first playoff appearance.. Wilmington was led by Greg Nared, a very talented QB...

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

For the record, Clifford is one of the lower caliber coaches in Southern Ohio.

09 7-3
08 1-9
07 8-3 Playoffs
06 3-7
05 2-8
04 7-4 Playoffs
03 4-6
02 11-2 Regional runner up, lost to a very talented West team that lost in the state title game
01 11-2 Regional runner up, lost to Newark Licking Valley who lost the State to Kenton. The Trojans lost this game 28-27 in OT on a missed extra point, after stopping Licking Valley on 4 straight plays within the 10 and storming the field they were flagged for pass interference and stopped them for 3 more but couldn’t hold them out on the 4th.
00 13-1 Division 3 A.P. State Champions, Region 11 champions, and state semifinalist. The Trojans lost this year to Van Wert after a late drive down inside the 10 yard line stalled, and the Trojans did not get an obvious pass interference call after the Trojan tight end was mugged in the back of the end zone. And if you think that’s just my opinion let me remind you that the referees that handled that game were banned from officiating in the playoffs the next season, thanks to that play. The Trojans were the only blemish on a 14-1 Amanda Clearcreek’s record on their way to back to back state titles.
99 7-3 Playoffs, Knocked off the 9-0 #1 ranked Wheelersburg Pirates in the 10th game of the season to lock up a playoff berth. The Trojans were again the only blemish on a 14-1 Amanda Clearcreek’s record on their way to a state title.
98 8-2 Finished 5th in the region, only loses to Ironton, and Wheelersburg
97 7-2 Finished 5th in the region, only loses to Ironton, and Wheelersburg. The Trojans defeated Ironton early in the year only to lose to the Tigers at the Tank. The Trojans and Tigers played twice that season due to open dates. If the Trojans would have played only an 8 game season that year their divisor would have dropped and they would have made the post season. However it was in the best interest of the program to play as many games as possible no matter who it was against. Linden McKinley was originally supposed to play the Trojans week one of the 97 season, but cancelled last minute leaving the Trojans with 9 games, and playing the Tigers twice.
96 4-6
95 1-9
94 4-6
93 4-6
92 8-2
91 9-2 playoffs, regional runner up
90 7-3
89 6-4
Total 132-90 average of 6.6 victories a year
7 playoff trips, 4 trips to the regional championship, 1 state semi final and an A.P. State title.
Clifford resume looks pretty good to me, but it is more about the number of kids he has been able to help through the years. I doubt there is any local coach that does more to give his kids the chance to play at the next level.

TFBAlum..
PHS defeated Wilmington in 1984 on their way to Portsmouth's first playoff appearance.. Wilmington was led by Greg Nared, a very talented QB...

Thanks, I just looked in an old program and saw we were 1-0 against them. 1984 is a little before my time, but I do know that the 84 team was very good, and have had the privilege of watching some of their films.

[falconater]

My two cents. Coach Clifford is an excellent coach with a very good record.

[Mikenmike]

I have to agree with Trojan_FB_Alum on this one Not many coaches can even say they cost their team a state championship.