Fed hock at trimble

[Chief Kdogg]

I think it is safe to say that if last years coach was still in town this incident would not have happened. He hired only top quality officials in his tenure. He was a very honest man that hired honest hard working officials that gave everyone a fair shake. Oh well, I guess they have to get some wins somehow.

JTMG

[Chief Kdogg]

After watching the video it is clear to me that one of the zebra's is one that was at another local school near and dear to my heart a few weeks ago. A replacement, that was not accepted well and probably does not want to come back to say the least. It is my understanding that he has done many many games at Trimble this year. That never happened with last years coach. He never wanted the same crew twice in one season, but I guess that goes back to his honesty and integrity. He never lost to Southern that last few times he played them either.

JTMG

[Poncho and Lefty]

How about we congradulate Noah Guthrie on an outstanding game??

[Lungbuster]

Congrats to Noah Guthrie and Tyler Thompson on outstanding games!

[Jim Ryan]

First of all I am not from Trimble, though bad officiating is not only found at Trimble as evidenced by what many have said about heading to Southern. Secondly, until your AD has the nads to agree to having an assigner you should not criticize any other school for officiating or the lack of an assigner.

First off someone pretending to be from some place their not shouldn’t be talking about nads. Secondly do you really think this is an AD in this area that wouldn’t want a league assigner to make their job easier? Third you wouldn’t have a clue how or if Southern voted, if this league wanted an assigner they would have had one long before Southern came in. We do know who voted for and against Belpre and Wahama to come into the Hocking.

[Heavy D]

First of all I am not from Trimble, though bad officiating is not only found at Trimble as evidenced by what many have said about heading to Southern. Secondly, until your AD has the nads to agree to having an assigner you should not criticize any other school for officiating or the lack of an assigner.

First off someone pretending to be from some place their not shouldn’t be talking about nads. Secondly do you really think this is an AD in this area that wouldn’t want a league assigner to make their job easier? Third you wouldn’t have a clue how or if Southern voted, if this league wanted an assigner they would have had one long before Southern came in. We do know who voted for and against Belpre and Wahama to come into the Hocking.

Two Southern guys arguing with each other now about acting like they are from somewhere else. Funny as it is, it is clear that Southern has hit an all time low on SEOPS.

[the Kool-Aid Man]

After watching the video the whistle for the fould and the horn were very close together. They had it right in the begining with no players in the lane. The 2nd should have been shot the same way. I will give coach more credit for getting time put back on the clock. In the video when the long shot attempt was made if u look at the clock it is still on the 1 sec. that they put back on the clock so that tells me the clock didnt move and the tech probably should have not been called. The TVC DOES NEED an assigner. The TVC is the is full of cheaters because there is no way that officals should be at 1 school 19 times between boys and girls games combined. Thats an easy way for ADs just open your book and say take whatever games u want. JMO

[Jim Ryan]

Heavy D, I am from Southern not pretending not to be. You guys hired the same officials you had when we played up there, everybody has seen the game, so you tring to divert the light off your school onto another is not going to work. Willy Homer did a fine job.

[Heavy D]

JR I will give you credit for admitting you are from Southern. That in itself takes a set of stones. Of course you ARE only speaking for the Jim Ryan name on here that you use. Right? I think Kool aid is correct. Everywhere you go in the TVC the officiating is questionable at best. It is worse when the coach hires his own officials instead of the AD. But until Eastern, Southern and Meigs agree to an assigner the problems will continue. Kool aid was wrong on one thing though. According to an OHSAA commisioner when the ball is thrown in after a free throw it is a live ball even though the clock does not start. So the "T" should have been called for having 6 players on the court.

[M0TIVAT0R]

Another thread that has nothing to do with Southern but that their people feel the need to get on and highjack it. What a mess that place must be.

[the Kool-Aid Man]

Heavy, What im saying is if u count down the clock was expired before the kid ran onto the floor. Plus both teams should have been givin a T because trimble coaches were on the floor

[Purple&Yellow Pride]

Another thread that has nothing to do with Southern but that their people feel the need to get on and highjack it. What a mess that place must be.

If anyone knows about Racine being a mess, its me. Things aint been the same in this town since 1982. All these soccer moms move in and their kids dont wanna do nothin to be a better basketball player. Now we spend all our time at the barber shop blaming officials for our lack of TVC titles.

[Dr. Naismith]

Thanks to Hardwood Heroes for making this video available.GW makes some very important observations. I was at the game so know what went on in the “fill in” that had a huge impact on the end of the game. These shots are not available on the HH video.

1) The first foul shot of Thompson was made under the status that the game clock had ran out, no time left on the clock and thus no Trimble players at the foul line. If this game wasn’t over then this is a lane violation.
2) Trimble called a time-out after the first foul shot. The officials then put time back on the clock indicating the game was not over. Can you use a time out if a game is officially over?
3) During the time out the entire FH bench was absorbed in a huddle, obviously unaware of what was going on at the scorer’s table. The conference to re-establish time appeared to take place between the Trimble coaches and the officials. Saying “appeared” because there was so much commotion it was hard to tell. My observatioin.
4) Trimble players committed a lane violation on Thompson’s second foul shot that was not addressed by the officials. Why not?
5) FH bench players did come out on the floor after Thompson’s foul shot was made because they thought the game was over but quickly retreated and I agree with GW, had nothing to do with the final outcome of the last play.
6) There are also Trimble coaches on the floor at the same time as the FH Players are trying to retreat.

IMO, and it’s only IMO, there were many mistakes made by the officials in how they handled the end of this game and by coaches and players alike. IF, the officials had reset the clock before Thompsons’ first foul shot and not in between the two, the ability to have effective communication with both benches would not have been an issue. IF the officials would have T’d up the Trimble players for holding onto the ball at the end of regulation and committing an obvious lane violation on Thompson’s 2nd shot it would never have gotten to the final scenario.

So if you are going to call the floor violation how can you not call the other violations? In the best interest of HS basketball, the officials should have restored order, gave the ball back to Trimble and replayed the last final second of regulation. Treat it like all the other “no calls” that should have been some kind of call at the close of this game. These officials IMO cannot justify the decisions they made down the stretch.

If you weren’t at the game, you can’t understand the commotion and lack of order that was going on at the scorer’s table and sidelines in the last few minutes. It was difficult for anyone to hear. This game got completely out of control and then we blame the kids for an adult mistake. What was Trimble’s hurry to be so hasty in getting their hands on the ball for the final second? Perhaps they knew mayhem was ruling and a technicality could change the end of the game? It is not easy to be an official but this is an important element of the game and requires composure and credibility in decision making, both of which was lacking in the final seconds of this game. No one is perfect but acknowledging a mistake can go a long way in correcting a situation. The FH players paid dearly for their mistake but everyone else walked away without any accountability. Scenario’s like this is what gives officiating in the TVC a bad image.

Sounds like this was a pretty interesting game. Was reading your comments and thought i would clarify why things were done if certain situations and what should have been done in others...

1. At the time of the first foul shot there was no time left on the clock so Trimble therefore would not be allowed to be in their lane positions. Even though time was put back on the clock there was no lane violation due to fact that during the shot the time had expired. You can not reward the shooter another shot for a clock/time discrepency.
2. Timeouts can be used until the official waves that time has expired and leaves the confines of the court. The official was correct in granting the timeout. I'm sure the other team did it to "ice" the shooter which is perfectly legal.
3. This sounds like a mistake made by the officials. Since time was put back on the clock both teams should have been notified of time being added back to the clock and told how much time was put back.
4. I believe i heard in an ealier post that was related to this point that the Trimble players were shouting and waving their arms at the shooter as he shot the foul shot. This is not a lane violation but rather should be considered as a Technical Foul due to unsportsman-like conduct. I've seen it called this way before and occording to rules interpretations is the correct call.
5. Even though the FH players on the court did not disrupt the play, the simple fact is that they were on the floor. Which results in a technical foul no matter the circumstances. However, this is why both teams should have been notified of the time being added to the clock. If FH was warned of this then the correct call was made. If not... then the referee made a mistake by not warning FH of the time being added back. Still the Technical fould had to be called because it is not a correctable error.
6. The fact that more than one coach was on the floor should have also been a technical foul as you are not allowed to have multiple coaches up and on the floor during a live ball at the same time.

Like i said, just thought i would give the rules interpretations and how things should have been handled according to the rules defined by the OHSAA.

[g w mclintock]

Thanks to Hardwood Heroes for making this video available.GW makes some very important observations. I was at the game so know what went on in the “fill in” that had a huge impact on the end of the game. These shots are not available on the HH video.

1) The first foul shot of Thompson was made under the status that the game clock had ran out, no time left on the clock and thus no Trimble players at the foul line. If this game wasn’t over then this is a lane violation.
2) Trimble called a time-out after the first foul shot. The officials then put time back on the clock indicating the game was not over. Can you use a time out if a game is officially over?
3) During the time out the entire FH bench was absorbed in a huddle, obviously unaware of what was going on at the scorer’s table. The conference to re-establish time appeared to take place between the Trimble coaches and the officials. Saying “appeared” because there was so much commotion it was hard to tell. My observatioin.
4) Trimble players committed a lane violation on Thompson’s second foul shot that was not addressed by the officials. Why not?
5) FH bench players did come out on the floor after Thompson’s foul shot was made because they thought the game was over but quickly retreated and I agree with GW, had nothing to do with the final outcome of the last play.
6) There are also Trimble coaches on the floor at the same time as the FH Players are trying to retreat.

IMO, and it’s only IMO, there were many mistakes made by the officials in how they handled the end of this game and by coaches and players alike. IF, the officials had reset the clock before Thompsons’ first foul shot and not in between the two, the ability to have effective communication with both benches would not have been an issue. IF the officials would have T’d up the Trimble players for holding onto the ball at the end of regulation and committing an obvious lane violation on Thompson’s 2nd shot it would never have gotten to the final scenario.

So if you are going to call the floor violation how can you not call the other violations? In the best interest of HS basketball, the officials should have restored order, gave the ball back to Trimble and replayed the last final second of regulation. Treat it like all the other “no calls” that should have been some kind of call at the close of this game. These officials IMO cannot justify the decisions they made down the stretch.

If you weren’t at the game, you can’t understand the commotion and lack of order that was going on at the scorer’s table and sidelines in the last few minutes. It was difficult for anyone to hear. This game got completely out of control and then we blame the kids for an adult mistake. What was Trimble’s hurry to be so hasty in getting their hands on the ball for the final second? Perhaps they knew mayhem was ruling and a technicality could change the end of the game? It is not easy to be an official but this is an important element of the game and requires composure and credibility in decision making, both of which was lacking in the final seconds of this game. No one is perfect but acknowledging a mistake can go a long way in correcting a situation. The FH players paid dearly for their mistake but everyone else walked away without any accountability. Scenario’s like this is what gives officiating in the TVC a bad image.

Sounds like this was a pretty interesting game. Was reading your comments and thought i would clarify why things were done if certain situations and what should have been done in others...

1. At the time of the first foul shot there was no time left on the clock so Trimble therefore would not be allowed to be in their lane positions. Even though time was put back on the clock there was no lane violation due to fact that during the shot the time had expired. You can not reward the shooter another shot for a clock/time discrepency.
2. Timeouts can be used until the official waves that time has expired and leaves the confines of the court. The official was correct in granting the timeout. I'm sure the other team did it to "ice" the shooter which is perfectly legal.
3. This sounds like a mistake made by the officials. Since time was put back on the clock both teams should have been notified of time being added back to the clock and told how much time was put back.
4. I believe i heard in an ealier post that was related to this point that the Trimble players were shouting and waving their arms at the shooter as he shot the foul shot. This is not a lane violation but rather should be considered as a Technical Foul due to unsportsman-like conduct. I've seen it called this way before and occording to rules interpretations is the correct call.
5. Even though the FH players on the court did not disrupt the play, the simple fact is that they were on the floor. Which results in a technical foul no matter the circumstances. However, this is why both teams should have been notified of the time being added to the clock. If FH was warned of this then the correct call was made. If not... then the referee made a mistake by not warning FH of the time being added back. Still the Technical fould had to be called because it is not a correctable error.
6. The fact that more than one coach was on the floor should have also been a technical foul as you are not allowed to have multiple coaches up and on the floor during a live ball at the same time.

Like i said, just thought i would give the rules interpretations and how things should have been handled according to the rules defined by the OHSAA.

Very well stated Doctor... Looks like this crew got some right and some wrong.

Nice observation by Kool Aid Man concerning the 1 second that never left the clock too...

[Foxworthy]

Thanks Dr. Naismith for your observations. You captured my point...........there were many errors made down the stretch and rule violations by both teams. All of them could have been called OR as we saw only one of them was called. This is the issue with the inconcistency's and why I hope Fed Hock let's OHSAA take a look at this.

Will it change the outcome of the game? No. But perhaps these officials need a refresher course in the rules and a their fingers smacked for ultimately deciding the outcome of this game.

[Foxworthy]

Amen Kool-Aid Man. No league needs an assigner worse than the TVC.