Consolidation Topic

[buckfan84]

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/co ... cs&sid=101

By Alan Johnson

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
THE HOT ISSUE
â—¦Do you think Ohio schools should be consolidated to reduce costs?

Of 39 recommendations in the "Restoring Prosperity" report released yesterday, one was custom-made for controversy: whacking the number of Ohio school districts by one-third.

Not surprisingly, the idea received mixed reactions from federal and state elected officials and educators.

"There are ways to do that without interfering in the identity of the individual schools," Gov. Ted Strickland said. "The willingness of schools perhaps to work together - as we are trying to get our universities to work together in the joint purchasing of technologies, materials, supplies, energy and so on - seems to me would be something that would be worthy of exploration."

State school Superintendent Deborah S. Delisle noted in a statement that although nothing prevents school districts from voluntarily merging, "neither the Ohio Department of Education nor the State Board of Education has the authority to force districts to merge."

A report by the Brookings Institution of Washington, D.C., and the Greater Ohio Policy Center that outlines a blueprint for Ohio's resurrection from recession says that operating with 611 school districts is "not sustainable."

The report calls for creating a panel like the one that proposed closure of U.S. military bases to recommend consolidating most districts with fewer than 2,000 to 2,500 students. The result would be about 411 districts.

"Maine has done it. Pennsylvania has proposed it. Indiana has proposed it. It's time to move into a very different century," said Bruce Katz, director of the Brookings Metropolitan Policy Program.

"This is not about the school districts and keeping mascots and cheerleaders. This is about competitiveness."

U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, who spoke yesterday at a Statehouse forum unveiling the study, stopped short of endorsing consolidation. But he said the recommendation "makes me look at it very, very seriously."

Brown pointed to an administrative collaboration between two adjoining Wayne County districts as a way to reduce costs without full consolidation.

About two years ago, the Orrville and Rittman school districts in northeastern Ohio streamlined their administrative services to save tax dollars and maintain classroom and extracurricular offerings to students.

Superintendent James Ritchie stressed that the districts were not consolidated; both still have separate boards of education, budgets, test scores, athletic teams and clubs.

But they merged their central-office staffs so there is a single superintendent and one treasurer with salaries split between the districts based on enrollment. They also do combined staff training and purchasing and some busing and special-education services.

"Orrville has saved about $170,000 (a year), and the savings for Rittman has been about $100,000," Ritchie said.

A Brookings study on Maine a few years ago called for voluntary consolidation. The proposal was incorporated into the state budget passed in 2007.

When the dust settled, 75 of 290 districts had been eliminated or consolidated, saving the state about $36 million a year and more at the local level, said David Connerty-Marin, director of communication for the Maine Department of Education.

Districts that opt out of consolidation get the stick: a 2 percent reduction in state funding.

There haven't been as many mergers as state officials hoped, but there have been benefits, Connerty-Marin said. Some districts have added pre-kindergarten, language and advanced-placement programs, he said.

The Brookings-Greater Ohio study also took schools to task for a track record of high administrative costs. The study said Ohio ranks 47th in elementary and secondary education spending allocated to the classroom, but was ninth in the percentage of budget earmarked for administration.

More telling, perhaps, is the fact that Ohio's administrative "overhead" cost of operating schools (and not the salaries of administrators) is 49 percent higher than the national average, according to the report.

The study recommends that the Ohio Department of Education require each district to spell out it how much it spends per pupil on administrative costs compared with instructional spending. The statewide average is 21 cents for each $1. However, that amount varies dramatically, from 11 cents in Lakewood in Cuyahoga County to 68 cents in Jefferson Township in Montgomery County.

Dispatch reporters Catherine Candisky and Jonathan Riskind contributed to this story.

ajohnson@dispatch.com


I don't like this idea but I am concerned that this is how the state is going to "solve" the funding issue. Also I put this in the football thread as people are always debating the issue in here.

[Orange and Brown]

This is a great article and it brings up some very valid points, but why is this in the football topic. I think that this would effect more than football on Friday nights.

This is something that gets brought up every year and whatever side you happen to fall on this issue it is going to come to a head sooner or later. There are many pros and cons to doing this. I don't really want to see our local districts merge together but this may someday be a reality.

[buckfan84]

Yes it certainly affects more than football but since this is a sport site I thought it relevant to put in here. I stay out of that mess called the political forum. Too many hot button issues in there. I know a lot of people can't wait till some districts merge to have a powerhouse sport program. But at what cost? I hope the state can find a better solution.

[sandman]

If you do not think it effects sports, come to River Valley or ask someone from one of the 4 former districts that make up the system.

[goldenboy]

Could you see the teams? jackson,wellston, and oak hill all as a county school and teams! WOW.....enough said!

[NYBuckeye96]

Many states have already done the consolidations. Virginia, for example, only has county school districts (some counties have more than one high school, if they are in populated areas, but most rural counties only have one high school). Virginia also ranks near the top in terms of academic performance and effective use of taxpayer dollars in its schools. I think Ohio should follow Virginia's example.

[mister b]

[State school Superintendent Deborah S. Delisle noted in a statement that although nothing prevents school districts from voluntarily merging, "neither the Ohio Department of Education nor the State Board of Education has the authority to force districts to merge.".[/quote]

This statement should put to rest any forced mergers discussion that seems to pop-up on here from time to time concerning some of our local school districts.

I do feel that the state of Ohio should look at having 1 Board of Education per county. That would be 88 School Boards state wide. These same boards could also oversee vocational schools and special education schools within the county.

Even by having 1 county school board, you could still have many of your seperate high schools that you do now. Having 1 school board does not mean closing and consolidating schools, although some of your smaller ones could be absorbed into a larger one. I.E. Waterford and Fort Frye in Washington County could easily be 1 high school.

[NYBuckeye96]

Even though the state can't force consolidations, it can threaten to reduce funding if you don't consolidate. That is a backend way to force consolidations. I believe this is what happened in the 1960s when there was a wave of consolidations.

Kind of like how the federal government used to say that states could set their own speed limits, but that speed limit had to be 55MPH if the states wanted federal highway money. There is always a way to force something to happen even if you have a "choice" in the matter.

[mister b]

^^^I agree with your statement.

However, there are times on this site that the talk of consolidation comes up when a district is in finanical trouble. This just won't happen as both districts have to vote in favor of consolidation.

The Cleveland school district is always in financial trouble and we have yet to see them forced into consolidation with anyone and their funding is increased every year.

The big school districts, like the big finanical companies (AGI, Lehman Brothers etc) are just too big to let fold.

[coal miner's son]

To add to what Virginia does. The state sends a person, or a team of assessors into a county and come up with a plan to best serve the kids and community. If that means consolidation, so be it. If it means building new buildings, so be it. The community will be taxed accordingly, there is no vote. Don't forget that Virginia is a "common wealth" state.

[buckfan84]

I lived in Virginia right around the time those consolodations were completed in the DC area. Prince William county schools ranked near the top nationwide on academics. I know this is where we are headed but I hate that many communities will lose their individuality and identity. There are at least 2 schools in Athens county that this would affect and one Washington county school that could be affected. The effects ( see pickbuck I can use those two correctly) on the local communities would be felt immediately and would be tough on the residents. I know financially it makes sense but the intangibles are what concern me.

[MTSWNGRVSG]

The Brookings-Greater Ohio study also took schools to task for a track record of high administrative costs. The study said Ohio ranks 47th in elementary and secondary education spending allocated to the classroom, but was ninth in the percentage of budget earmarked for administration.

More telling, perhaps, is the fact that Ohio's administrative "overhead" cost of operating schools (and not the salaries of administrators) is 49 percent higher than the national average, according to the report.

Why?

[jottings]

Good topic. Maybe Obama will take care of things by himself.

[buckfan84]

I think Strickland would have more to say than Obama as the state is responsible for fixing the school funding issue. If this is the fix it's going to be a tough pill to swallow.

[Orange and Brown]

I think Strickland would have more to say than Obama as the state is responsible for fixing the school funding issue. If this is the fix it's going to be a tough pill to swallow.

I think it will take a long long time to fix funding in our state. I think that state needs to tax everyone not just the people who own property. I think that we need to quit feeling sorry for our selves because we are underfunded at some districts and TEACH our young people. I hate how everytime a school district doesn't perform the first thing we here is how if they had more money jr would pass. We can't teach our kids the basics any more so lets stop worring about how many computers we have. There kids who graduate high school and can't read!! (Still in this day and age!!!)

[mister b]

Ohio can't get it right.

To raise the test scores of our kids we are going to require them to take 4 years of Math. Lookout next years freshmen.

I have nothing wrong with that. However, they are going to require all kids to take and pass Algebra 1 and 2 to receive a dipolma. Not every kid is going to be able to take and pass these 2 classes. Algebra 1 is a seperation class. Only those kids that excell and like math will do well in it and go on to higher math classes. These kids are usually your engineers, pharmacists or doctors. The average student will not do well in these types of classes. They need more basic classes to meet their needs to become productive citizens later in life.

A school can offer business math classes but these classes do not count toward your math credit like they used to. What we need to raise math scores is to be better able to offer basic math classes and help students become proficent in the basics before we push them into higher and more difficult math classes.

Every senior in the state of Ohio will have to take and pass chemistry to earn a dipolma. Not every student can take or pass chemistry to graduate. Again, chemistry is an advanced science class. It is a seperation class. For the average student to pass chemistry, we have to make a true chemistry class a watered down class. Thus, the student who needs higher chemistry is going to have to take a chemistry 2 class to cover what should have been covered in chemistry but couldn't be because the average student would fail the class.

More students are going to technical/vocational schools and colleges that offer 2 year programs because the requirments to graduate there are different and are better suited to what the student wants to become later in life.

Every high school should offer classes for those who want to pursue a 4 year college degree but they should also offer classes that meet the needs of the student who isn't going to go to a 4 year school and doesn't need a college degree to support themselves.

And we wonder why schools are losing funding to local colleges that offer 2 year degrees and to the vocational schools because they are offering what the average student wants and needs.

Finally, the state needs to fund secondary education differently. It should not be funded only thru property taxes.

We are screwing our kids over by raising the bar to high and giving them nothing in return to help clear that bar.

Very few people in Columbus have an idea as how to fix this or what our students truely need to become successful.

[NYBuckeye96]

MisterB, I agree with everything you just said 100%.

Here is another way Ohio gets it wrong.......

I believe every high school should offer college-level AP courses. To be admitted to one of the top universities in this country, students need to be exposed to AP courses in high school. Most schools in southeastern Ohio do not offer AP courses. The smartest kids in southeastern Ohio are missing out on a possible opportunity to be admitted to top private - and public - schools. Athens has AP courses and Athens has some students who are admitted to some of these schools. Most of these top schools - private and public - offer financial assistance for those who otherwise could not afford to attend these institutions. For people to say kids in southeastern Ohio can't afford to attend top schools, that is simply NOT true. Top schools have very generous financial aid packages for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. The problem is........kids from disadvantaged backgrounds in southeastern Ohio are NOT being exposed to the rigorous coursework required for admission to the top colleges in our country.

If someone is in the top 10% of their class, I don't care what high school they attend, they should have been exposed to the coursework required that will allow them to compete for admission to an Ivy League or even a really great public school like the University of Virginia. Will they all go to top schools? Probably not. But, if they want to, then their educational background needs to be strong enough to give them a CHANCE to attend these schools.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Ok guys I don’t think you guys have a good understanding of the situation. First of all integrated, career tech type classes do count towards your math credits. Second the state is going to make 4 math classes mandatory, because we want to be able to keep up with other states and countries student’s math standards. Algebra and Geometry are a part of these standards and need to be taught to them because it is what is on the OGT test. Without an understanding of them their chances of passing the test are diminished. When talking about AP courses I agree that they are great if we have individuals that can teach them. The way an AP classes works is that the students that take it must pass an AP test to receive college credit for it, unless the course is taught is by a college professor that teaches that course. The problem we have is that there are very few qualified teachers that could teach an AP level course well enough to give students the chance to pass an AP test.

Just my thoughts.

In regards to consolidation, I am normally strongly against it but to tell the truth I think there are some small schools in the area that may be better off if they would combined them, or close and put them in with another. I know nobody want to lose their identity, and I certainly understand that. However for example Green is a very small district, and has schools that are in poor condition, why not combined them with burg instead of building new schools? The same could be said for New Boston. They are approved for new schools but can’t find a place to build. I would think them and East would be a good combination but wouldn’t happen with them being a community school. That means they would be absorbed by Portsmouth, although I think many of their kids would go to East. I think Clay as well could be split in between Portsmouth Valley and Minford, although I know nobody would want that. They could still bring their teachers, so that small class sizes could be maintained, the savings would result from few building upkeep, and less administrators.

[mister b]

First of all, in Ohio, intergrated math classes (businees math etc) do count toward you number of math credits in a vocational setting. They do not count towards your math credits in a 4 year college prep setting.

I beg to differ in the fact that most southeastern Ohio students, for that matter, most students in general, are prepared to take and pass Algebra 1 classes as a freshmen. Many of these students will suffer. They will need intervention classes just to keep up. This pulls needed funds away from the education process. If your students are taking and passing these classes now, then these courses are truely watered down and not real Algebra 1 or 2 classes. You yourself said that these are not the same classes you took back in the early 80's. Students should not be allowed to retake quizzes and tests. The whole idea of these test and quizzes are to see where the communication between teacher and pupil is failing. Identify shortcomings and reteach. What happens when students take a watered down courses like these is this, they get to a unversity like Purdue and they find that they are not prepared for the course work that the university says they should be able to do based on their transcripts from their high school. According to the ACT testing service, only 42% of US high school graduates are ready for college level math. They are taking and passing these classes in high school, why aren't they ready for college math? Because the work they are doing in high school is watered down. It LOOKS good on paper but we are not helping the student to better understand the course subject or it's content.

The other thing is that if you want to raise the test scores of students in math, then throw away the calculators. The calculator knows the basic math laws but the student doesn't. All we are doing is seeing if a student can correctly enter numbers into a calculator in a proper squence to get a correct answer. Einstein figured of the theory of relativity without the help of a calculator or a number crunching computer but on the OGT test we let students use the calculator. How dumb is that? Students should be able to do these types of math problems, the ones of the OGT, on a scratch piece of paper.

The 21st Century is this...lets try and do more with less to make everyone fell better and hope that test scores will go up. Sorry, but current testing results show that only 40% of current 4th and 8th graders in the US are proficient in math.

You might as well just tell the kids to put the math book under their pillows at night and let them learn it through osmosis and you will get the same results. Math test score have flatten out (and they weren't going up at a very fast rate to begin with) since the "No child left behind act" was introduced.

Having kids take courses that they are not ready for and then watering these courses down to get the kids to pass just to give us a warm fuzzy feeling isn't helping Junior perform better in school.

[Dundas]

I think there are a few schools that should consolidate in SEO. It is a lot better in the long run. Look at VC for example...what good would it be having 5 small DVI schools in the same county...? Getting more kids in one place is whats best for both athletics and academics. No one should be against consolidating simply because they dont want their small town to lose its identity. If its best for the kids, then thats all that matters.