Consolidation Topic

[Orange and Brown]

I think there are a few schools that should consolidate in SEO. It is a lot better in the long run. Look at VC for example...what good would it be having 5 small DVI schools in the same county...? Getting more kids in one place is whats best for both athletics and academics. No one should be against consolidating simply because they dont want their small town to lose its identity. If its best for the kids, then thats all that matters.

True, but it is not always best for the kids.

[Dundas]

Ask anyone in VC (past or present) if they think we wouldve been better off had we not consolidated and they will tell you absolutly not. If it saves the district money that can be passed on to the kids, then it benifits them every time.

The only downfall to the VC consolidation is the travel from the edges of the county to McArthur.

[farmer]

Consolidation in Lawrence County would not be good since most of the schools are new or have been upgraded. Even if it could be done then the long bus rides for some students. There are some now that have long rides. Busing is a big expense to school districts. The price of school buses and if gas goes high again that will be a bigger expense.

With technology being what it is now they could have teachers at one school and teach some classes in a variety of schools. Instead of consolidation of students I would rather see schools getting together more to share ideas or to package together programs to get funding from the state of Federal govt.

The addition of 4 math classes to graduate is another thing that is good to talk about but really not needed for everyone. Students have the option to take 4 math classes and in some schools even more. Not all students will need the extra math classes for their future jobs. Just like people who have to take extra classes in college just because they are required. They might not use it much when they get out of school so they do not put as much effort into the classes. Instead of improving the classes that are offered the govt wants to add more but do this without giving more funding. The State of Ohio has never fixed funding for all schools anyway.

[mister b]

We weren't discussing struggling students taking Algebra 1 and 2 classes. We were talking about and the state is referring all students who are not on an IEP to take and pass higher math classes without the advanced help in the lower grades to prepare them for the rigors of these advanced math classes.

For some strange reason, the state of Ohio thinks that if we just make these kids take these additional classed they will do better on the OGT, ACT and SAT. That isn't going to happen. Many of these kids will become discouraged because they aren't prepared and they will fail. Having students learn 60 to 70% of the course material doesn't prepare them for college and college level math. Even if these kids aren't going to a Purdue etc, they aren't ready for college level math, the ACT test scores prove this point. I don't know about your district but in my district knowing 60% of the material gets you an F in the class. Knowing 70% of the material at OSU allows you to just pass the class. I don't know about you but I don't want to drive across a bridge that was engineered by a student that barely passed college or college level math. For that matter, I don't want a doctor who barely passed med school being my doctor.

The state of Ohio has dropped the ball in funding education in Ohio. It has dropped the ball in it's requirements for course work and content from grade 1 and up. Another unfunded mandate of adding additional higher level math classes for graduation requirement will not raise test scores and will only discourge students from taking math classes. Forcing them to sit through classes they don't like or even understand hurts not only them, but the students that want to be there and the teacher that is trying to teach these students.

A good teacher can only teach the material as fast as the slowest earning student in the class can go. The faster and better students get bored. What we need are math classes that seperate the faster students from the slower students so everyone learns at a pace that they can effectively learn the material in a timely manner. Of course, this requires more teachers which requires more money which the state doesn't want to supply to the districts so now the districts have to go back to the public and ask them to pass more levies because the state doesn't fund education properly but keeps adding more mandates.

Pure madness.

[koondoggersback]

Could you see the teams? jackson,wellston, and oak hill all as a county school and teams! WOW.....enough said!

It is easy to look at consolidation and think....WOW!....what great sports teams we would have. In the short term this is occasionally true but remeber early consolidation sports teams are often all star teams. When those kids graduate reality sets in. kids quit coming out because now instead of 3 starting QBs in a county there is only one. Look at River Valley......We at Trimble would welcome consolidation with nelsonville becasue we need some parctice palyers and backups.....

Just my thoughts guys!

[Heavy D]

It is starting to look like ole kdb and dynamite are one in the same. And if what my buddy from Eastern told me is true, they are both a big Eagle football fan.

[DYNAM0]

Could you see the teams? jackson,wellston, and oak hill all as a county school and teams! WOW.....enough said!

It is easy to look at consolidation and think....WOW!....what great sports teams we would have. In the short term this is occasionally true but remeber early consolidation sports teams are often all star teams. When those kids graduate reality sets in. kids quit coming out because now instead of 3 starting QBs in a county there is only one. Look at River Valley......We at Trimble would welcome consolidation with nelsonville becasue we need some parctice palyers and backups.....

Just my thoughts guys!

Yes I agree that we at Trimble would welcome blocking dummies and someone to fetch us the water bottles during practice.

[dynamo.]

^^^we would be glad to take a few of those buttsuckers from the land of corn and maters as well. Finding a good scout team is always tough.

[datchillicav]

Mr. B:
I couldn't agree more. Everything you said is dead on. I took algebra one and two and pre calculus in high school as well as chemistry. I knew I wanted to go to college and that I wanted to get an advanced degree. If I were not motivated to take these classes and smarter(don't mean to be arrogant) than the average student, I would have definately struggled in those classes. When I got to college and took a college level math class I found that, while I had heard of most concepts we were going over, I had very little mastery of the basics. I would have been much better served had I been a master of the basics and had to learn new concepts in college that I had a strong base for than I was knowing the concepts but not knowing the basics which enabled them to work and thus increasing my understanding. Chemistry is the same way. Why don't we educate people to the point where they are masters in the basics instead of having a vague knowledge of so much which they will probably never learn. I'm sure knowing more basics would have helped me in my college classes and I'm sure would help someone who doesn't go to college do simple computations throughout life.

[mister b]

Mr. B:
I couldn't agree more. Everything you said is dead on. I took algebra one and two and pre calculus in high school as well as chemistry. I knew I wanted to go to college and that I wanted to get an advanced degree. If I were not motivated to take these classes and smarter(don't mean to be arrogant) than the average student, I would have definately struggled in those classes. When I got to college and took a college level math class I found that, while I had heard of most concepts we were going over, I had very little mastery of the basics. I would have been much better served had I been a master of the basics and had to learn new concepts in college that I had a strong base for than I was knowing the concepts but not knowing the basics which enabled them to work and thus increasing my understanding. Chemistry is the same way. Why don't we educate people to the point where they are masters in the basics instead of having a vague knowledge of so much which they will probably never learn. I'm sure knowing more basics would have helped me in my college classes and I'm sure would help someone who doesn't go to college do simple computations throughout life.

datchillicav...well said and your point is spot on. Master the basics in high school and then expand on them in college.

[sandman]

Let me start by saying that I an ABSOLUTELY NOT a fan of consolidation. I do however think that alot of districts will have it to do. State and local fiscal limitations will dictate the need for the multiplication of the effect of tax dollar spending, for example, one management team, all sorts of infrastructure, bussing, etc. The bulk of school budgeting is dedicated to personnel and as such that will become the major issue driving such decisions, not the existence of facilities, new or old. Corporations close new facilities all of the time when economic conditions indicate that it is a sound decision.

Unfortunately, with Ohio's budgetary problems, I think that most of us in rural SE Ohio have not seen the end of consolidation. Rural West Virginia has incorporated County systems with single high schools in many of their counties without much consultation with the citizens.

[mister b]

Sandman, your points are well taken.

I am not a fan of consolidation either. I do think that Ohio should give some very serious thought to going back to 1 Board of Education per county, like WV. There are some drawbacks as there will be some more asst supers positions to take the place of many supers but these will be lower paying jobs.

There may even have to be some realigning of district's border lines. Makes no sense for some of these kids to ride an hour on a bus to district "A", their home school, when it may be a shorter ride to district "B".

I even think districts need to consider changing their transportation guidelines. Right now, only students in K-8 that live 2 miles or more away from the school as the crow flys are required to be bussed per state law. Students 9-12 grades are not required to be bussed. Many students are transported by their parents every day. Busses run half full alot of the time. When a district plans a bus route, they have to plan for every kid on the route to have a seat regardless of if they ride the bus or not because they may ride a few times a year and they need a seat.

There are many things to look at. Some serious guidance from the state level, with proper funding, is needed to help our kids get the education they need. The state is dropping the ball.

[NYBuckeye96]

Mr. B:
I couldn't agree more. Everything you said is dead on. I took algebra one and two and pre calculus in high school as well as chemistry. I knew I wanted to go to college and that I wanted to get an advanced degree. If I were not motivated to take these classes and smarter(don't mean to be arrogant) than the average student, I would have definately struggled in those classes. When I got to college and took a college level math class I found that, while I had heard of most concepts we were going over, I had very little mastery of the basics. I would have been much better served had I been a master of the basics and had to learn new concepts in college that I had a strong base for than I was knowing the concepts but not knowing the basics which enabled them to work and thus increasing my understanding. Chemistry is the same way. Why don't we educate people to the point where they are masters in the basics instead of having a vague knowledge of so much which they will probably never learn. I'm sure knowing more basics would have helped me in my college classes and I'm sure would help someone who doesn't go to college do simple computations throughout life.

This was my experience as well. I took all the college prep classes at NY and graduated in the top 10% of my class......when I started college reality set in as to how weak my math prep was at NY. I took Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, and Advanced Math (trig/pre-cal) in high school, as well as science math formulas in Chemistry and Physics. When I started college, I was almost in shock as to how weak I felt my skills actually were for college-level classes in math and science. I had a tutor for every math class I took in college, but I made it and graduated with honors. I did have my strong points in other subject areas, so it could be a matter of what I'm great at, what I'm good at, and what I'm not so good at as an individual, and not necessarily the prep I received in high school.

I don't blame or find fault with anyone in particular, and it could have been a combination of several factors, but my experiences lead me to conclude that if I can afford private school for my kids, thats the route I'm going to take with them.

[madpolecat]

Consolidating districts into common county offices is one thing; bundling a full county's worth of students into single buildings is another.

The logistics of single-school counties are problematic. Lots of kids spend lots of time on busses in those districts. I imagine that as petroleum prices go back up, the energy expenditures in those sorts of districts will become quite crippling.

[mister b]

I don't think we need to send all the kids in a county to one high school or junior high with consolidation.

We could share 1 curriculum director, 1 transportation director, 1 superintendent, 1 treasurer etc per county instead of 1 each per district in the county.

You could still have your seperate high schools etc. Between them, they can share resources, which could include teaching staff for some courses.

[WHSwarrior]

But I don't think it makes any sense for Washington County to have SIX high schools, Mister B. If you were to intelligently locate the new campuses, Wolf Creek/Fort Frye and Warren/Belpre could easily consolidate and not increase bus time too much (although time spent on buses in Ft Frye and Warren is astronomical for some). Consolidation shouldn't be considered unless its a good option, but it is a worthy option for Warren and Belpre.

Warren's dropped all but 4 of its AP classes, and all of its Honors courses within the past 4 years. Belpre's enrollment is continually declining, both schools are in need of new facilities, Belpre's athletic facilities are EXTREMELY outdated, both are barely getting by. Imagine only paying 3/4 of the current high school staff of the two schools combined, only one head coaching position for each sport, only one of each administrator, and likely receiving state assistance for new facilities as a result of consolidation.

It merits consideration from the board. But it's a careful and delicate issue.
Ultimately, the boards should do whatever is in the best interests of the students.

[Orange and Brown]

But I don't think it makes any sense for Washington County to have SIX high schools, Mister B. If you were to intelligently locate the new campuses, Wolf Creek/Fort Frye and Warren/Belpre could easily consolidate and not increase bus time too much (although time spent on buses in Ft Frye and Warren is astronomical for some). Consolidation shouldn't be considered unless its a good option, but it is a worthy option for Warren and Belpre.

Warren's dropped all but 4 of its AP classes, and all of its Honors courses within the past 4 years. Belpre's enrollment is continually declining, both schools are in need of new facilities, Belpre's athletic facilities are EXTREMELY outdated, both are barely getting by. Imagine only paying 3/4 of the current high school staff of the two schools combined, only one head coaching position for each sport, only one of each administrator, and likely receiving state assistance for new facilities as a result of consolidation.

It merits consideration from the board. But it's a careful and delicate issue.
Ultimately, the boards should do whatever is in the best interests of the students.

It would have to be voted on so the boards can only put it on the ballet.

[mister b]

But I don't think it makes any sense for Washington County to have SIX high schools, Mister B. If you were to intelligently locate the new campuses, Wolf Creek/Fort Frye and Warren/Belpre could easily consolidate and not increase bus time too much (although time spent on buses in Ft Frye and Warren is astronomical for some). Consolidation shouldn't be considered unless its a good option, but it is a worthy option for Warren and Belpre.

Warren's dropped all but 4 of its AP classes, and all of its Honors courses within the past 4 years. Belpre's enrollment is continually declining, both schools are in need of new facilities, Belpre's athletic facilities are EXTREMELY outdated, both are barely getting by. Imagine only paying 3/4 of the current high school staff of the two schools combined, only one head coaching position for each sport, only one of each administrator, and likely receiving state assistance for new facilities as a result of consolidation.

It merits consideration from the board. But it's a careful and delicate issue.
Ultimately, the boards should do whatever is in the best interests of the students.

I agree. That is why I said that there are students who attend school "A" when they actually live closer to school "B".

In the case of Washington County, there are some students who are riding a very long time on busses. With 1 board for the county, district lines could be redrawn while most schools stayed open. Belpre and Warren could become one high school with 2 junior highs fairly easy. But this would require a new high school, something voters would not stomach. There would be a few Warren students that would find it easier to attend Marietta. In my opinion, Waterford and Fort Frye should resolve their issues and become one high school. The students in Frontier are kind of out in the cold as the bus trips into Marietta would appear to be too long. So we could easily condense 6 high schools into 4, Belpre/Warren, Waterford/Fort Frye, and Marietta and Frontier seperate.

All this would have to be done with voter approval which I don't think will happen.

Warren is getting a very real taste of what Belpre has gone through for the past 20 years by having to cut staff and services. Hate to see the AP classes go. Belpre has managed to expand theirs with AP English, Calculus and soon to be added Honors Biology from what I am told.

I am sure that there are other counties in SE Ohio that would benefit by moving from seperate school districts to 1 county wide school system with the consolidation of a few schools, elimination of administrative positions and the sharing of other resources. Add in online learning programs and many students could take classes that they would only get at much larger districts.

Please understand that these opinions are my own and do not reflect the thinking of any school district that I am aware of.

[WHSwarrior]

My family is originally from the Pittsburgh area, in Beaver County. Two schools districts, one rural and one town district, both very very successful athletically but struggling financially and beginning to struggle academically, just recently consolidated completely. In PA, the issue didn't need to go to voters. It was a sad decision, to decide to start with a clean slate and a new school, but it's ultimately the right decision. It was the first ever voluntary school merger in Pennsylvania.

Warren and Belpre could take a page from the new Central Valley School District, Monaca PA.

[mister b]

My family is originally from the Pittsburgh area, in Beaver County. Two schools districts, one rural and one town district, both very very successful athletically but struggling financially and beginning to struggle academically, just recently consolidated completely. In PA, the issue didn't need to go to voters. It was a sad decision, to decide to start with a clean slate and a new school, but it's ultimately the right decision. It was the first ever voluntary school merger in Pennsylvania.

Warren and Belpre could take a page from the new Central Valley School District, Monaca PA.

In Ohio, consolidation goes before the voters, unless the state takes over the schools. When the Warren school district was created, the folks in the Little Hocking school district (K-8 only) voted to join with the Belpre school district. The voters in Belpre voted to not allow Little Hocking into their district, bad move in my opinion and remember the highway wasn't there nor wasn't even planned. Little Hocking was then forced by the state to go into the Warren district since Belpre didn't want them.

Different states have different ways of conducting business. I believe Pennsylvania schools don't have levies; they submit their budgets to an elected body who approves them and adjusts the tax rates as needed to supply that budget accordingly.

It will be interesting to see if Warren's levy proposal for new school buildings passes in the next couple of weeks. I wish them nothing but the best.