Week 9: SEOAL - Chillicothe (3-5, 3-1) at Jackson (7-1, 4-0)

[billcox]

First off, Paladin is a complete idiot! I have no reason to post facts to back up that statement because everyone on this site knows it!

As far as divisional assignments go, they are really out of whack, especailly in SE Ohio, and something should probably be done about it. There are many schools in SE Ohio playing in higher divisions than they should be due to their enrollement. Vinton County is a perfect example of this. They are playing in D3 because their school district is huge, when in all reality they pull kids from a D5 size talent pool. Jackson is another example, especially when they are D2. Anyone with a brain knows that Jackson doesnt pull kids from the same size talent pool that the D2 Cincy schools do.

I could name many more. The point is that assigning a team to a division based solely on their enrollement doesnt result in them being grouped where they should be. Many other factors should be considered such as the size of the school district, urban or rural area, etc. Im not sure that the answer is but it should be looked into by the powers that be.

[datchillicav]

First off, Paladin is a complete idiot! I have no reason to post facts to back up that statement because everyone on this site knows it!

As far as divisional assignments go, they are really out of whack, especailly in SE Ohio, and something should probably be done about it. There are many schools in SE Ohio playing in higher divisions than they should be due to their enrollement. Vinton County is a perfect example of this. They are playing in D3 because their school district is huge, when in all reality they pull kids from a D5 size talent pool. Jackson is another example, especially when they are D2. Anyone with a brain knows that Jackson doesnt pull kids from the same size talent pool that the D2 Cincy schools do.

I could name many more. The point is that assigning a team to a division based solely on their enrollement doesnt result in them being grouped where they should be. Many other factors should be considered such as the size of the school district, urban or rural area, etc. Im not sure that the answer is but it should be looked into by the powers that be.

So you think that it would be fair for an "urban school" with an enrollment of 500, to be in the same division as a "rural school" with 800? It would not be fair for the "rural school" of 800 to be in a division with an "urban school" of 800 though?

Enrolment is what it is. EVERY school with 800 kids has the POTENTIAL to draw the same talent. Some areas develop talent better, some areas have better participation, some areas just put more effort into their teams but they all have the same potential(private schools not withstanding) if they are the same size. VC is D3. If they want to win, they should put more emphasis on getting the kids that they do have in their school to play. They lose regularly to schools that are much smaller than them in similar socioeconomic situations. The reason no SEO teams advance very far very often is because the support, funding, backing, and participation are not what they are inn other areas. In life, everyone has certain advantages and disadvantages. You either overcome them or capitalize on them but if you do not do well or achieve what you set out to achieve, most of the time you can look in the mirror at the person(s) responsible.

How would you set up the division? based on average income or the cost of a schools stadium but not actual bodies? some other way?

[billcox]

It is all about the geography of the individual school district. Take Logan for example. They are the only school in Hocking County. Their district is spread throughout that entire county. Do you honestly believe they get kids from the same size talent pool as a suburban or innner city D1/D2 school does? Of course they dont! Schools like Logan and Vinton County have kids traveling 30+ minutes to school from all directions. Many of these kids do not play sports. A suburban or innner city school that has a much more condensed district to draw their kids from certainly has advantages.

[ji81grad]

The divisional breakdown should be done by enrollment divided by square miles of school district.

Urban school districts have a huge advantage over rural districts. An urban school district that covers 10 city blocks and an enrollment of say 400 has an advantage over a rural district tht covers 30 square miles and has an enrollment of 400. Many of the 400 students in the rural district don't have the opportunity to participate in lower level programs due to the logisitcal issue of transportation to and from practices etc. Most rural parents work and can not provide transportation on a regular basis, and it is very expensive to make extra trips to town whereas the urban kids can actually walk to and from practices.
I remember the 2004 playoff game in Cincinnati when the DII Ironmen suited up 45 and Withrow suited up 105. Not exactly a level playing field. Our program is very popular and attracts many sudents, but we still can't pull the numbers that an inner city school can.

Having said that, I realize that this issue will never be addressed. The powers that be are satisfied with the simplistic formula they use and OHSAA makes millions on the playoffs.

Keep in mind that this makes winning playoff games, like beating Withrow in 2004, a special accomplishment.

As for Palladin, Palladin II and all his other names, we can't afford to play schedules filled with long road trips to Cincinnati and Columbus and still keep from charging our kids a pay for play fee. Pay to play would further reduce our talent pool and exascerbate an already tenuous situation. Feel free to criticize us for our "weak" schedule as we strive to provide the learning experience of interscholastic athletics to as many of our students as possible. Maybe you should focus your attention on some productive pursuit rather than demeaning everyone else with your mindless drivel.

[Ironman92]

How many more kids in 9-12 did Withrow have that year?

Who won that game? Just sayin.

I don't feel there is a much better way to do it. Odds are in most sports the team that advances in the postseason is typically the one on the higher end of the division. I coach cross country and track at a D4 school that has a similar district to Vinto Co.....we have kids that are 40 miles from the high school and closer to 8 other high schools.....AND we are on the low end of D3 in both sports. We have 84 boys and 99 girls and the facts are that 25-30 % of those kids don't even consider sports due to no way to get to practice and back. Sure enough come postseason time we typically lose out to the schools with 179 girls and 181 boys on the high end of the division.....usually over double our numbers and in a much smaller area. Last year our girls XC team made the regionals finishing 4th out of 35 schools in the district....the other 3 teams all were on the very upper end of the divisional cutoff.

Look how teams do when they move up a division due to enrollment increase....Jackson girls track team loaded up the regionals as a D2 school but the year before they don't even sniff mention at the regionals in D1. Oak Hill boys in basketball?

I don't know a more fair answer....but that's definately a tendency I see.

[Chieftain]

We'll re-visit this once the actual teams are selected for the playoffs. I think you will find that D-4-5-& 6 are all full of teams that are as "rural as many SE teams are or are in small towns similar to SEO. D-I ( of which there are none in SEO) and D-II ( handful) are exceptions. D-III can be a mix, but some will be embarrassed when the locations & size of the school districts are known. Check out Frederickstown & North Union for 2. Since MOST of SEO is D-IV and under, your arguement falls flat. Playoffs teams announced soon.

In particular, this situation was pointed out several years ago about Logan when they were D-I, where this problem is severe for D-II teams in SEO.. While Logan barely made D-I, their numbers for players out for FB were no different than most D-IIIs and many kids don't play any sports at Logan because they live too far away for a ride after school sports are over. The problem still exists as a D-II program for Logan, despite the big fish , small pond rant of the envious among you. No complaints from the Chiefs as they line-up and play a highly competitive schedule against much, much bigger (and dense ) CITY schools.

[sittin the pine]

What does all of this horse s_ _ _ _ have to do with Jackson hosting Chillicothe in a crucial SEOAL game in week 9. Lets get back to the game and save the other for debate while sitting on bar stools with long necks.

[buckcraze]

paladin...have you seen the Ironmen play any games this year?

I'll tell ya what, I've seen them play and week one was an aberation! This is one nasty, hard nosed, determined football team! Anyone who has been around high school football for very long knows week one is always a wild card. Coaches are never sure how their team will react opening night, especially when you open every year with a rivalry game. Jackson's schedule, they cannot exactly help that, but....Ironton 6-2, Warren 5-3 will paly a 7-2 Gallia team in week 10, and Chilly is 3-1 in the SEOAL. The other people on their schedule, well schedules are made years in advance so you can only play hte teams on your schedule. I'm not real sure why paladin in bashing Jackson, but we Chilly fans have huge respect for this Jackson team. They are tough!

[iPood]

Hope Chilly can pull the upset, just don\'t see it happening though.

[bookem13]

Whether they pull off the upset or not, you have to give Coach Hinton and his assistants props for coming into this league in year 1 and going .500 at the worst after their season last year. I haven't seen the Cavs play a down, but as an outsider I'm very impressed with what he's doing there.

[Blue_nd_Gray]

All scheduling does is tell you how you did against the teams you had to play. It seldom tells you how good you really are. Your schedule can hurt you in the computer because all the computer looks at is raw data, but even at that, it cannot measure things like heart or season long improvement.

I submit that no one really knows for sure how these league leaders really are at this point; hence the last two games of the regular season and possibly the playoffs.

You keep blathering about SE Ohio, but in truth there is not SE Ohio region in the DI-III state playoffs. There are no major cities in SE Ohio and no DI schools with only a few DII and a few more DIII. For that reason, DIII, Region 12 takes in all of southern Ohio below I70 from the Indiana state line to WVa on the other side.

Thus Gallia Academy and Jackson are in the same region with Cincinnati and Dayton area schools and in truth there are only 7 schools on or east of US 23.

"HENCE" if you want to act like a big boy don't talk dirty it only makes you look like a dirty mouthed kid!

[ironman02]

Can't wait for tomorrow night. Should be a great atmosphere.

All of Jackson's goals are right there in front of them. A win tomorrow night clinches at least a share of the SEOAL championship, keeps the hope of an outright title alive, and keeps playoff hopes alive as well. The Ironmen need to play four quarters of solid football and take care of business. One more win at Alumni Stadium for a special group of seniors!

GO IRONMEN - BEAT CHILLICOTHE!!!

[tap in bogey]

Hinton is indeed the real deal but I'll stick with the Ironmen in this one. Should be a great game.

[grndma1]

GO RED !!!!!!!!!!!!

[footballfanatic1]

watch out for the sea of red...... it might drown you.... :aaaaa4 :aaaaa4

[GAHSgoingBIG]

Good Luck Chilli

[camnott]

GO IRONMEN

[maniac66]

We'll re-visit this once the actual teams are selected for the playoffs. I think you will find that D-4-5-& 6 are all full of teams that are as "rural as many SE teams are or are in small towns similar to SEO. D-I ( of which there are none in SEO) and D-II ( handful) are exceptions. D-III can be a mix, but some will be embarrassed when the locations & size of the school districts are known. Check out Frederickstown & North Union for 2. Since MOST of SEO is D-IV and under, your arguement falls flat. Playoffs teams announced soon.

In particular, this situation was pointed out several years ago about Logan when they were D-I, where this problem is severe for D-II teams in SEO.. While Logan barely made D-I, their numbers for players out for FB were no different than most D-IIIs and many kids don't play any sports at Logan because they live too far away for a ride after school sports are over. The problem still exists as a D-II program for Logan, despite the big fish , small pond rant of the envious among you. No complaints from the Chiefs as they line-up and play a highly competitive schedule against much, much bigger (and dense ) CITY schools.

As you have shown with the scheduling of Nelsonville York A big inner city school there talk about Ironton all the time and who they play and you drop 3 levels to play them.
What ever

[KINGheat]

Hit'em in the mouth!

[KINGheat]

be nice if the fans would support Jackson but its not about them. Jackson has to keep playing there game that they know and playoffs should be in their future. Go Ironmen!