REFS????

[Esully63]

E - I referee because i want to and i enjoy and yes i know the rules better than you do and thats part of being an official. So again go ahead go to the games and yell, have fun and gripe about the refs if you want. But if you perceive a problem and are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. People yelling and screaming at the games really does not bother or influence me, in fact i like it when everyone is involved in the game and the gym is roaring just a better atomosphere

Can we get beyond the yelling and screaming at the games and get to an explanation of why we allow for so much contact on the full court press, when it is clearly just poor defennse. Yet call fouls on shots if shirts rub. If there is a problem and you fail to admit or even concider there is a problem, then you too are part of the problem.

[ManitouDan]

just a couple comments to wrap this up for me : I didn't mean to insinuate contact was NOT needed to draw an "over the back " call.

blockcharge is right about the vertacality of a players arms, so often the Def player doesn't realize they are tilting their arms as the shot goes up and making contact drawing the foul ( slow mo replay really shows that the arms are usually going forward)

And Esully is sure right about ball pressure applied to a dribbler in the full court press. A bunch of contact/ hand checking is tolerated. That was thing that drew my praise to the crew the Munn guy was calling games with. They did'nt allow the team pressing to beat/bang in order to knock a ball loose.

lastly it's difficult to call a girls game. 1/2 of them don't understand positioning/ timing / or the letter of the rules either. how many girls can stand still and draw a charge ? no official can cover up how poor some of these games are being played. peace out MD

[Esully63]

just a couple comments to wrap this up for me : I didn't mean to insinuate contact was NOT needed to draw an "over the back " call.

blockcharge is right about the vertacality of a players arms, so often the Def player doesn't realize they are tilting their arms as the shot goes up and making contact drawing the foul ( slow mo replay really shows that the arms are usually going forward)

And Esully is sure right about ball pressure applied to a dribbler in the full court press. A bunch of contact/ hand checking is tolerated. That was thing that drew my praise to the crew the Munn guy was calling games with. They did'nt allow the team pressing to beat/bang in order to knock a ball loose.

lastly it's difficult to call a girls game. 1/2 of them don't understand positioning/ timing / or the letter of the rules either. how many girls can stand still and draw a charge ? no official can cover up how poor some of these games are being played. peace out MD

Thanks Dan! At least I don't feel like I'm nuts. The thing that bothers me the most about allowing this is seeing the ball go back the other way all night and the point differentials going way up. Not only does it allow the offenders another offensive stand it takes an offensive stand away from the other team. Every time this is allowed it is theoretically a 4 point swing. Im all for defense and pressure but it should be done right, using your feet and speed, not pure aggression and reach, and I'm not going to buy "If we called it all night they would all foul out,or we would be there all night". I do believe our coaches and players would adjust to the calls and we would have better game because of it. As I said "nothing wrong with pressure, excellent defense is seldom seen these days but I really marvel when I see a good defensive player working hard. You may not see it in the stats, and the player may not get much recognition but believe me the team owes much of thier success to that player.

[Ironman92]

yep

[footballfanatic1]

what no recognition for playing sound "D".... COME ON....LOL

[ManitouDan]

sound aggressive D , yes . Girls with little knowledge of the way the game should be played and turning it into a rugby match -- no. I've said this before , I'll say it again. Any team worth it's salt will adjust it's aggressiveness to the level being called. You start out in the 1st quarter and within 4-5 minutes the girls know exactly what to expect, A) I can mug someone B) I can't near anyone or C) it's gonna be called about right

The poor crew (did'nt cheat anyone , just poor) we had at home last month allowed so much contact by the 3rd quarter my daughter was assualting opposing players. She said " I knew I could by with it" in the car on the way home. Thats just not right.

[blockcharge]

esully - If its a foul in the front court its a foul in the back court and since i only see the games i work, with the people i work with i guess i don't know what you are talking about. I told a group of young men the other night "I don't care if we shoot a hundred free throws, we are still gonna call the fouls."

[West Side Pride]

If you have ever taken a team to Dayton, down south in Kentucky, Florence, even Maysville to play AAU and seen the officals, trust
me you won't complain about local high school girls referees. I have always liked the fact that other places away from here "let them play".
I also have always told my girls that basketball is a contact sport, use it to your advantage over a more timid team. Luckily I always
had a hard nosed group. (or maybe us coaches did that). But nevertheless, I hate fans around here screaming foul when their
player is just touched.

[clevelandbrowns#1]

West Side Pride,
You are correct, go to Dayton, Cincinatti, Columbus and it WAS a more physical game than what we have had in our Southern Ohio Leagues. I truly feel that our basketball here in Southern Ohio has taken on a more physical game!! No doubt about it. Is the officials to blame?? Is the coaches to blame?? Is the OHSAA to blame?? Is the players to blame?? I think it is a little bit of all. Let me explain, We have always been told by coaches that come tournament time it seems we call a more physical game, we let more bumping go!! To a certain point I agree, but remember the farther a team advances in tournament play usually the better they are. The better the team the more fluency, the less grabbing, the better defense, the better shooting, the better ball handling, the overall better the players. If you call a very tight game and call the so called "hand check",-when a defensive person puts his/her hand on the offensive player, you will here it from the coach, fans and everyone else who is there from the team you just called it on. A "hand check" should be called when the defensive player gains an advantage over the offensive player by directing them or changing the direction the offensive player was trying to go. The game of basketball does have CONTACT, it is a CONTACT sport. Believe it or not the coaches want their players to play through the bumping, touching, breathing on, etc... Ask them see what the answer is. The thing about officiating the game of basketball is CONSISTENCY. Did you and your partners on any given night call the game the same in the first quarter and call the same thing in the fourth quarter?? If we did then we feel we did a pretty good job that night.
Now let me make the so called "over the back call", in the book "push". A defensive or offensive player goes up for the rebound, the player behind them jumps also and gets the ball but no displacement happens you let it go. You can also have contact from behind but does not knock the player in front off their space. No call is made!!! FLUENCY-players can move up and down the floor without a whistle everytime you go from one end to another. The other case a player who has inside position goes up for the rebound and the player from behind goes up and displaces the player in front causing the player to travel, go to the floor, go out of bounds, then a foul should be called. What if their is no displacement but contact is made?? We 99% of the time let it go, nothing was gained by the offese or defense so why stop the game??? Fluency
Last but not least, why do you all think we officiate this game?? MOST of us do it for the love of the game of basketball!! If you think we all do it for just the money you are wrong (some do). I drive or ride with my partners on any given night to Logan, Chillicothe, Ironton, Jackson, Wellston, Warren, Athens, Manchester, etc... The earliest we have left this year from Lucasville is @ 3:15 to get to our game that night. That is after a days work already that we have put in. My partners will tell you that I HAVE to get there by the start of the jv. game. We then arrive home, anywhere between the times of earliest 9:30 P.M. to say 12:30 A.M. being the latest. I can tell you all this, the guys I work with throughout the season, LOVE TO OFFICIATE and that is the reason we do this thankless job!!!!

[ManitouDan]

good post browns , officiating is a tough thankless job.

[Ryanexpress]

CB1,
Very well said!

[md2020]

After a game the refs are usually out of the playing area very quickly. More often then not if given the opportunity I would show my appreciation for their contribution to the game. Not totally thankless IMO.

[blockcharge]

We leave quickly so as not to promote a confrontation. Are we afraid? No, normally law enforcement is there and/or game administration but if you think about it what is the most uncontrolled moment of the game. I think in a close, heated game the minute or 2 after the final buzzer, emotions are still high, even our own, so a verbal confrontation could turn physical very quickly, and with all the people on the floor or near it someone else, worst case a player and/or student could get hurt. So while we would appreciate your thanks its probably best that we get off the floor and into the showers. Now in a 1 or 2 point ball game we will linger a second or 2 longer, looking at the table to make sure we have no problem with the score. Why? Because in one of those strange rules once we leave the visual confines of the floor no corrections to the score book can be made. With that in mind, what are the correctable errors that can occur during a game.

[BlindWhiteHat]

I have seen some really bad officiating this year and it seems to be worse than in year's past. I'm not necessarily talking about judgment calls because those are things that people will constantly disagree on. My concern has been with some mechanical issues as well as how an official carries himself.

For one, I have seen officials eye an upset player after calling a foul while the official walks to the table to report the foul. It's as if the official is looking for trouble. Then, the official will approach the upset player and appear to lecture the player for a few seconds either before or after reporting the foul. This just seems like a bad practice as it appears the official is looking for a confrontation instead of avoiding it. I realize things can be said to the offending player in a discreet way but it seems more officials want to stop and get in the player's face.

I have also seen officials out of position on dead ball plays. For example, during a free throw there was an official in front of the scorer's table and other at the foul line on the same side of the court as the reporting official. With this, there is no one on the opposite side of the court. That leaves no one to cover the other side of the floor if the ball heads that way. This was a very experienced official who should know better.

[Willy Cheatem]

I bin reffin for years with my brothers, Homer and Dewey and sister Shirley. Cant speak for them but I sure do make my calls dependin on which fans is the most intimidatin. Ther was a guy bout 6 feet 5 last week justa screamin at me. He musta waid bout 280. Scary lookin. He kepta yellin you better start callin that reach or Ima comin after ya if my girl gets hurt. Boy you darn tootin I started callin it too, and he quit screamin at me. Then I called a reach on his team and he screamed at me agin, that aint no reach and you better quit callin it. So I did, and he quit screamin agin. Then the coach started screamin but he was just a small fella so I told him to zip it or I'd Tee him up and he shut right up. Once I figured out what the big ugly guy wanted me to call everythin went good the rest of the way :aaaaa8

[md2020]

I think I know Shirley. Still working downtown maybe. Good move on your part though.

[ManitouDan]

excellent willy !!!!!